Possible violation of constitutional right question

[ATBAC]

Greetings everybody,

I have a little situation with a co-worker who illegally video taped few people (including myself) and continues to do so against company policy. I filed a written report and called a field Captain to come by the site I work and take my report. When he came in, he instead, went straight for a a sign I had on the wall strictly for a protective reasons, against this little criminal I filed the report about, since he also engages in vicious gossip about everybody, lies as he breaths, etc. The sign had 2 quotes on it: One of **Pope Adrian VI that says "The rosery is the scrouge of the devil." (and they do see me daily quietly reading the rosery b4 starting work), and the other is a psalms 7:15 **that says **“He who digs a hole and scoops it out falls into the pit he has made.” **and he started to recklessly harass me and verbally abuse me about putting such a sign claiming it might offend somebody!!! I told him He has violated my constituonal right by doing so since the US is a Christian Nation and the Pledge of allegiance to the flag does point out The US “as One Nation Under God” and as Christian I have the right to put out Christian legitimate quotes to protect myself. He called his boss and started making up a bunch of lies about me, I took a pic of something with my phone and pulled a digital recorder and turned it on to capture the scheme. that drove him out of control. I called the same person he was talking to from a different line and told him about the creature’s behavior. He ended up coming. When he got to the place with another very decent gentleman. This con totally changed his scenario and claimed he only asked me politely to remove the sign, they concured with him since they both happened to be egyptians (I didn’t know the company was muslim owned when I applied, I needed a job, responded to an add, I was hired on the spot by a local person, once I knew, I was already on their payroll).

My question is, who is right? I believe they did violate my constitutional right. Since I did unformally complain about the illegal act and they were very lazy about addressing it firmly, so if they can neither protect me as one of their employees nor allow me to call upon Christ (I needed a visual repelant of the darkness in addition to my personal prayers), then there is something seriously wrong.

Please help, because I contacted couple of agencies and do intend to file a legal complaint. thank you so much.

PS: the other little criminal is in the process of being investigated and I did tell them, next time I see the micro recorder on him, I will confiscate it, call the cops and file a formal police report since he completely denied having one despite the testimony of one witness, a witness who worked at the site for nearly 20 years.

 

[MoBeck]

You need an attorney to answer your questions.
As far as someone recording or videotaping you, laws vary from state to state. As far as your signs it would probably depend on if they’re in a public space, and enclosed space (your office, e.g.), if the company has a policy, &c, &c.

PS – I would discourage you from trying to “confiscate” someone else’s property even if provoked.

 

[promethius]

the basic answer: it depends.

For the video policy, you have a right to privacy. Ergo if you ask not to be filmed in your place of work, unless your company specifically authorizes filming of the work place that request SHOULD be honored. You cannot, however, confiscate someone else’s property. That would fall in the category of theft and, if there was a struggle over it, assault as well.

For the sign, it depends on company policy and/or where the sign was posted. If it was in your office and company policy is that members are allowed to post non-incendiary statements in their offices, you could file a lawsuit on them based on descrimination and violation of your right to free speech. However, your company ownes it’s walls, not you, so if their policy is NO religious statements posted on walls, even in your office, AND that policy is fairly applied to everyone, you have no legal grounds to stand on. Ultimately, it’s up to company policy… the company gets to determine the ammount of freedom of speech applicable to it’s walls, and as long as that policy is fairly enforced, you have no grounds to stand on.

 

[ATBAC]

You need an attorney to answer your questions.
As far as someone recording or videotaping you, laws vary from state to state.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut, I am in California and it is illegal here. The client’s site is private property and they have never been consulted which is something that needs to be done to get their ok first for liablily reasons (and now that I am thinking about it, I will notify the owners, I have not since I thought my bosses will handle it). Beside in commercial security the only taping cams that are allowed are the ones that are part of a CCTV system (closed circuit television scan), and that usually gets installed by a specialized contractor hired by the client themselves. This little criminal is just a simple guard that is at this point subject to having his guard licence revoked because he comitted several other illegal infractions along with this one. To give you an idea of the type, I’d say he is one of those low lifes that would flash 10 dollars metal badge at an old lady to make her think he is a cop when if anything he is not even a reasonably smart person to start with.

As far as your signs it would probably depend on if they’re in a public space, and enclosed space (your office, e.g.), if the company has a policy, &c, &c.

what is the alternative? he denied the fact and they went along with it claiming they will “investigate”. I contacted the Bureau of Security & Investigative Services about it, an agency whose job, among other things, is to enforce that the rules are followed by the commercial security personal whether they be employers or employees. They are in Sacramento and I am in Los Angeles, because of the Jurisdiction factor, they referred me to the dept of fair employement and housing to complain to. I am not sure if this is legitimate or they are sending me packing because they sensed I don’t have the money it takes to hire the lawyer that can corner whoever needs to be cornered.

 

[ATBAC]

the basic answer: it depends.

For the video policy, you have a right to privacy. Ergo if you ask not to be filmed in your place of work, unless your company specifically authorizes filming of the work place that request SHOULD be honored.

the company never allowed anything, and I am not the only one that complained. He also changed a phone from which we all sign and put a digital one instead probably to steal employee’s PIN #'s since he can pull it back out anytime because it is supposedly his property, he claimed the other one was broken and he put in his car. Upon me warning to bring it back or else, he did and we checked it and sure enough it perfectly worked fine!

You cannot, however, confiscate someone else’s property. That would fall in the category of theft and, if there was a struggle over it, assault as well.

I am confiscating it as Evidence and as such it will be turned over to the proper authorities before the end of the working shift, so no, it is not a theft. and beside I am licenced to peform a citizen’s arrest on anybody that is comitting a crime in the property I guard, during my shift and who refuses to comply with company policies.

For the sign, it depends on company policy and/or where the sign was posted. If it was in your office and company policy is that members are allowed to post non-incendiary statements in their offices, you could file a lawsuit on them based on descrimination and violation of your right to free speech. However, your company ownes it’s walls, not you, so if their policy is NO religious statements posted on walls, even in your office, AND that policy is fairly applied to everyone, you have no legal grounds to stand on. Ultimately, it’s up to company policy… the company gets to determine the ammount of freedom of speech applicable to it’s walls, and as long as that policy is fairly enforced, you have no grounds to stand on.

That sign was there for a while, why didn’t they take it out? probably because they had no problems with it. And now suddenly it is. Beside I have never been given a employee book or even an orientation class that usually is supposed to make one aware of the dos and dont dos as far as company policies go. I am suspecting the reason for that is they want to be able to make up rules as they go along. If they give one a book, when an issue arises whoever can pull out the book and argue, not with the way they currently do. the ficticious captain (by the way he is protorican and claims to be christian but I am starting to believe he is vodoo worshipper for the ruthless poison and prejudice that came out of him) came with a traight intent to attack me not take the rpt for which I initially called. He came with a dirty agenda from the start. Regardless that does not excuse the lying he let out. And you did make a good point for the walls ownership, that could hold, thank you.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Hi ATBAC,

I don’t know the legal answers to your questions, but I’ll be praying that these non-Christians can see the merciful and loving Christ at work in you. Please don’t forget to pray for them and to pray for guidance.

Neil

 

[ATBAC]

Hi ATBAC,

I don’t know the legal answers to your questions, but I’ll be praying that these non-Christians can see the merciful and loving Christ at work in you. Please don’t forget to pray for them and to pray for guidance.

Neil

Thank you so much Neil, you are honestly very generous. I do try to pray for those who persecute me, sometimes it’s very hard though. At this point I have been praying that they be given a fit punishment since I feel I have the right to make a living in peace, I pay my taxes and obey the law, this job is 25 % of the job I can really get, but due to the mental disorder I have and to the necessary need to minimize stress, abuse and trauma in my life. I am settling for it. I still do despite the tourmoil ask Christ to forgive me and declare to Him that I am forgiving those who hurt me since I know from experience that the act can have a tremendous miraculous affect.

May you Be Blessed Neil and sincere thank you again.

 

[IGCampbell]

First piece of advice: talk to a lawyer.

Regarding the subjects in general (keep in mind I am not a lawyer and the below does not constitute legal advice):

As for the sign: you’re at the mercy of company policy, as long as it’s not a public building. If a duly empowered company representative says take it down, you don’t have a choice. If, say, there’s evidence that another person was promoted over you specifically because you’re a christian, you have a complaint to pursue, but no, you have no right to decorate your workplace according to your whims.

As for confiscating the camera: no, you don’t have the legal right to do this, especially if you’re going to put your hands on the other person to do this. Whether his actions are illegal or not depend on whether the camera is recording audio as well. If it’s not recording audio, you’ve got no legal basis to object.

If it’s recording audio, California Penal Code Section 632 prohibits recording, without all parties involved knowing/consenting (note: continuing a conversation when knowing you’re being recorded indicates consent), “any communication carried on in circumstances as may reasonably indicate that any party to the communication desires it to be confined to the parties thereto, but excludes a communication made in a public gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive or administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other circumstance in which the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded.” Even if he’s in violation of that, first offense is a misdemeanor; citizen’s arrest powers only apply for felonies. Since it’s not a felony, as your employer’s been made aware of the recording, unless they explicitly order you to do anything about it, you’ve got no enforcement power regarding this issue.

 

[royal_archer]

…
My question is, who is right? I believe they did violate my constitutional right. Since I did unformally complain about the illegal act and they were very lazy about addressing it firmly, so if they can neither protect me as one of their employees nor allow me to call upon Christ (I needed a visual repelant of the darkness in addition to my personal prayers), then there is something seriously wrong.
…

If you are talking about your religious rights, The constitution only protects you from government intrusion on these rights. If your bosses are not Christian then they are under no obligation to facilitate your religious beliefs. By the same token If I own a business I do not have to facilitate peoples anti Christian religions. If someone were to post Muslim, Satanic, Wiccan, or Budist messages that I don’t like I have every right to have those messages removed.

 

[ATBAC]

And you did make a good point for the walls ownership, that could hold, thank you.

By the way promethius, it just came back to me that the client is christian and might even be catholic, so given that it is his property, I am going to talk to him about that too. The walls are not their and neither is the site where I work. In other words, a muslim owned company is providing commercial security services to a christian owned business.

 

[ATBAC]

As for the sign: you’re at the mercy of company policy, as long as it’s not a public building. If a duly empowered company representative says take it down, you don’t have a choice. If, say, there’s evidence that another person was promoted over you specifically because you’re a christian, you have a complaint to pursue, but no, you have no right to decorate your workplace according to your whims.

This is not about my whims but my rights, read my lips. And speaking about whims, in reading your post I am suspecting in the way you answered it, the only reason you did is to satisfy your own whims. Think about that.

As for confiscating the camera: no, you don’t have the legal right to do this, especially if you’re going to put your hands on the other person to do this. Whether his actions are illegal or not depend on whether the camera is recording audio as well. If it’s not recording audio, you’ve got no legal basis to object.

neither does this thug have the right to film me, especially since he has attempted to pick my employee id # and who else knows what else?! this is how criminals go about stealing one identity, they get a footage, they get a voice, a full name, a pin #, etc, etc, etc. When the day comes for me to deal with such ordeal, you are going to be there to help me pick up the pieces, right?

If it’s recording audio, California Penal Code Section 632 prohibits recording, without all parties involved knowing/consenting (note: continuing a conversation when knowing you’re being recorded indicates consent), “any communication carried on in circumstances as may reasonably indicate that any party to the communication desires it to be confined to the parties thereto, but excludes a communication made in a public gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive or administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other circumstance in which the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded.” Even if he’s in violation of that, first offense is a misdemeanor; citizen’s arrest powers only apply for felonies. Since it’s not a felony, as your employer’s been made aware of the recording, unless they explicitly order you to do anything about it, you’ve got no enforcement power regarding this issue.

you are going away above your head, did you understand what the quote you posted meant? or did you understand my original post? Re-read my post. My question was about the sign, and in the way this scum used to tell me about it. That’s it. You were not there to see the abuse I have been put through. People like you are probably the ones that promote oppression of some just so others could carry out their legal lawlessness, thieft and what not. My question was very simple and Most Legitimate. If you cannot reciprocate, no need for you to reply.

 

[ATBAC]

If you are talking about your religious rights, The constitution only protects you from government intrusion on these rights. If your bosses are not Christian then they are under no obligation to facilitate your religious beliefs. By the same token If I own a business I do not have to facilitate peoples anti Christian religions. If someone were to post Muslim, Satanic, Wiccan, or Budist messages that I don’t like I have every right to have those messages removed.

As I’ve corrected above, the site’s owners are actually christians. We are contractors providing security services. And the security area is included in the Christian owned site. Thank you so much for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[IGCampbell]

Apparently you don’t want to know* if *you’re right, you want to be told that you’re right. I answered your question; your disappointment over the answer is your cross to bear, not mine. Also, I responded to the camera issue because you included it in your post; if you don’t want something responded to, don’t post about it. If you want a tissue and a pat on the back, ask for that next time rather than a legal analysis.

 

[ATBAC]

Apparently you don’t want to know* if *you’re right, you want to be told that you’re right. I answered your question; your disappointment over the answer is your cross to bear, not mine. Also, I responded to the camera issue because you included it in your post; if you don’t want something responded to, don’t post about it. If you want a tissue and a pat on the back, ask for that next time rather than a legal analysis.

a legal analysis?! LOL. …and you didn’t answer my question in relation to your comprehension of your own quote and my text.
I had to give some background to the violation for whoever can answer will have a better picture of the whole thing that would allow him/her to do so, but since you don’t seem to know what that means, you answer in ignorance and disguised prejudice and hatred is irrelevant to me. Your fool accusations simply confirm it. Goodbye. Since I don’t have time to waste in empty toxicim, you are on ignore, I asked to be simple and legitimate not whatever you are to being, and I don’t approve of it.

 

[kage_ar]

Cousult your employee handbook to understand the company policy.

 

[RobHom]

ATBAC… Several people have given you good advice. Whether or not you are employed in “security”…under the circumstances you might want to walk a tight line.

Confiscating another persons property if that person is not restricted from possessing it on the property…could be problematic. Additionally if that person should resist and there is a scuffle, and that person is legally on the property in legal possession…you stand a chance of being charged with assault and attempted theft.

What I would suggest you do…is find an attorney who offers a free consultation and outline your issues with him.

What it sounds like to me is that you are in a situation where someone else is creating “a hostile workplace”. Here are two websites that address the issue. This one fellow is in Missouri, but California probably has similar laws.

timslaw.com/hostile-environment.htm

This one is from UCLA…and might serve you better:

law.ucla.edu/volokh/harassg.htm

 

[Contarini]

I told him He has violated my constituonal right by doing so since the US is a Christian Nation and the Pledge of allegiance to the flag does point out The US “as One Nation Under God” and as Christian I have the right to put out Christian legitimate quotes to protect myself.

You put yourself in a bad position there. The U.S. is not a Christian nation. At least, this is not generally accepted. It’s your prerogative to think that the U.S. is or ought to be a Christian nation, but you wouldn’t get far in a court of law with that argument.

Instead, you should base your argument on your right to freedom of expression. You have this not as a Christian but as a human being, according to the Constitution. An atheist or Hindu or Muslim would have exactly the same rights.

Edwin

 

[ATBAC]

Cousult your employee handbook to understand the company policy.

There is none, I talked to them about it and they said so.

ATBAC… Several people have given you good advice. Whether or not you are employed in “security”…under the circumstances you might want to walk a tight line.

Confiscating another persons property if that person is not restricted from possessing it on the property…could be problematic. Additionally if that person should resist and there is a scuffle, and that person is legally on the property in legal possession…you stand a chance of being charged with assault and attempted theft.

What I would suggest you do…is find an attorney who offers a free consultation and outline your issues with him.

What it sounds like to me is that you are in a situation where someone else is creating “a hostile workplace”. Here are two websites that address the issue. This one fellow is in Missouri, but California probably has similar laws.

timslaw.com/hostile-environment.htm

This one is from UCLA…and might serve you better:

law.ucla.edu/volokh/harassg.htm

Thank you ever so much Rob. Your advise as well as the links are simply terrific. The Missouri one is still extremely broad. I will act on your honest insight.

You put yourself in a bad position there. The U.S. is not a Christian nation. At least, this is not generally accepted. It’s your prerogative to think that the U.S. is or ought to be a Christian nation, but you wouldn’t get far in a court of law with that argument.

Thank you, I totally agree with you, I should not have. And I believe I still won’t get far regardless since in a US court room, generally only the wealthy or large monorities such as the blacks or lantinos are heard. I am neither LOL. As far as whether the US is Christian, I believe it rightfully is based on who first founded and built it as a country.

Instead, you should base your argument on your right to freedom of expression. You have this not as a Christian but as a human being, according to the Constitution. An atheist or Hindu or Muslim would have exactly the same rights.

Edwin

Again, right On! since the prick would not even let me talk or finish my sentences. I totally agree, in regard to the atheists, I think they are the worst off, of all categories. In my…, shall I say “atheistic days” LOL., I used to go to notorious related sites as well as read few books and from what I’ve got, these brothers and sisters really really really have it tough. A christian or a jew, according to archives and statistics would most likely help a muslim before he/she would an atheist should they be told he/she is an atheist!!!

Again, I sincerely appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut Edwin and most definitely will keep it in mind when figuring out what to do, I just last week, randomly met with one of my former bosses that still work with another security company, He insisted that I go see such and get re-hired again because when I left they really did not want me to leave, I am going to email him this afternoon.

Dawn

 

[ATBAC]

**Hello all ,

Few more ugly things have taken place since, so last night I sent one of my bosses an email warning if they don’t get their act together I was going to file a complaint with the EEOC and the Labor board, which is something I was planning on doing today :knight1: . I have been called this morning and told that the problem-person has been removed from the site. So I am very relieved. But still, I am looking for another job.

Thank you so much for your help and Thank you Jesus :harp: : . **