Post-Communist Vent

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So, I live in a post-Communist country. Public schools and certain medical check-ups for children are mandatory (and free, by the way; but still mandatory).

Today I had the pleasure of taking my 2.5 yo daughter for a first check-up with a speech therapist and defectologist AND getting information from them about my 5 yo’s check-up that was conducted in her preschool class.

It was a real treat. :rolleyes:

I was told my (wonderful, sweet, smart, almost bilingual, introverted) 5 yo is “socially impaired” (because she’s shy in large groups and with strangers), “behind” (because she apparently didn’t know all the arbitrary things expected from her at that age), and needs help from them.

The (pretty mean-looking, intimidating, crabby) lady told me it was obvious my daughter wasn’t used to a “collective” - she’s been at home with us all her life and never went to daycare, something they obviously saw as neglectful and somehow evil - and she needed institutional help so she’d catch up with other, “socialized” children.

When I asked exactly what techniques and methods she thought she could use to help my daughter adjust to a school setting with more ease, the woman frowned at me and said “That’s for me to know!” I replied: “I can’t give my consent unless I have information on what you propose to do to my child” and she still wouldn’t tell me! So I declined - the lady was giving me, a grown woman, the creeps, I certainly don’t want to expose my sensitive child to her!

She said my child had cognitive issues. When I asked for examples, this is what I got:
  • “She couldn’t name all the body parts”
    “I find that hard to believe,” I replied. “Which ones couldn’t she name?” I asked and got NO REPLY. My kid knows how to name body parts in two different languages and this was absurd.
  • “She couldn’t count to ten”
    “She can count to one hundred,” I replied. Perhaps she was terrified of this lady.
  • “She couldn’t name the days of the week.”
    OK, this one is true. My kid doesn’t know the names of the days of the week. Those are seven words that she can cram by heart in two minutes, but what’s the point of it in a 5 yo’s life? She’s just never been interested. She can tell time, though, but that doesn’t matter, because the guidelines say that a 5 yo must know the days of the week or be deemed cognitively impaired.
I said my child was fluent in two languages, and she reprimanded me for that, as it is bad for a child to be bilingual - a child must first learn her own language well before she’s exposed to another one. It’s not my fault she just picks up languages effortlessly!

(And, only after writing this, I actually find the courage to say that this is baloney! I studied language development in uni and there’s nothing wrong with being bilingual!)

Then it was my baby’s turn. She was, to begin with, speech impaired - yes, she develops verbally a bit slower, but she’s got a good ear and is catching up quickly. She just started showing an interest in learning words later. She’s more interested in her motor development.

They were concerned and seemed to blame me for not “working with her” enough. See, I have to actively teach my child speech, not just talk to her in a normal way.

One horrible oversight on my part is not teaching my children onomatopoeic words. You see, a child will never learn how to speak and will forever lag behind if you don’t drill into her when she’s two years old that a doggie says “woof” and a cow says “moo” and a sheep says “baa”. Or whatever. I told them I wasn’t sure I knew them all and I am a language and literature teacher at a university.

(I just remembered - she does know that a mouse says “click” :D)

It was problematic that my 2.5 yo was still not “part of a collective” - i.e. at daycare 8 hours a day. (I have no reason or desire to put my child in daycare).

And it was shocking when my toddler asked to nurse. They asked me why on Earth I was still nursing her. I answered “Because the WHO encourages it until at least the age of 2, and then further if both mother and child are happy with it,” to which I was given a lecture about the bad quality of my milk.

My milk has great quality, by the way. It has just been used to cure conjunctivitis in my toddler and myself, and has warded off strep throat for my toddler.

Then she said I was attaching my toddler to myself by nursing so long, and she won’t be able to be a part of a collective and learn well in the future because of it!

I asked her what research she has to back that claim up and mentioned that experiments in attachment psychology (Harlow, Ainswhorth, Bowlby and others) have demonstrated that securely attached children actually do a better job exploring and learning.

To which she replied that I can have my theories, but it was her job to tell me what the consequences of my actions were.

All this time, they were talking to me and asking me questions, never even looking at my toddler. The poor kid noticed toys in a box and tried to get them, which I attempted to bring to their attention, but they ignored it, and she gave up and headed towards the soap on the sink. I got up and took the soap away from her, as it looked yucky, and the speech therapist had the nerve to reprimand me for not listening to her, but paying attention to my child instead! 🤷

I’ve been sad, angry, crushed, all day long. My husband told me we should just ignore it all and keep doing our thing. But I can’t help feeling both reprimanded as a bad mother AND afraid for my child in the future, if people like this ever get to her. Trying to turn her from an introvert into an extrovert. Trying to make her into a neat case with all the right boxes ticked. Knows days of the week? Check. Detached from parents and adjusted to the collective? Check. Fully “socialized”, i.e. institutionalized? Check.

Ugh. Sorry for the long vent. It helped.
 
Are you an expat family? Because your experience sounds like the kind of culture shock parents experience when they interact with local doctors and schools.

It sounds incredibly frustrating no matter what. I think your husband is right - just keep doing what your doing and your kids will be the better for it, no matter what that lady and her guidelines think. 🙂
 
Thank you for the quick reply! So happy to have a sympathetic ear.

Actually, I’m a native, but as a teacher of English and member of so many US-based fora, I’m not sure what culture I belong to any more when it comes to parenting. “Culture shock” sounds just about right.

Thanks for the support. I love your posts here - you’re so often a voice of charity and sanity.
Are you an expat family? Because your experience sounds like the kind of culture shock parents experience when they interact with local doctors and schools.

It sounds incredibly frustrating no matter what. I think your husband is right - just keep doing what your doing and your kids will be the better for it, no matter what that lady and her guidelines think. 🙂
 
I’d have told that woman what she could do with her “advice”! :mad: Your husband and your instincts are right and those left-overs from Communism are wrong. In a few years they’ll be gone and your daughters will be with you where they belong. Don’t let this bother you. You did great standing up to the old biddies. 👍
 
Thank you.

It’s the kind of system where you obey and fear doctors, not talk to them as equals.

I don’t think we’ll ever be homeschooling, but at least we’ll always be able to avoid being away from our daughters for more than around 4 mandatory hours a day, starting at age 5.
I’d have told that woman what she could do with her “advice”! :mad: Your husband and your instincts are right and those left-overs from Communism are wrong. In a few years they’ll be gone and your daughters will be with you where they belong. Don’t let this bother you. You did great standing up to the old biddies. 👍
 
I’m sorry I really don’t see how this is communist as much as its “old biddie” who has a government role.

I don’t know how many moms can attest to similar treatment in a small town. Nobody sais “molly coddling” anymore. But there was a time if you didn’t let a baby cry it out, didn’t spank a toddler or infant, potty train by 2, have a child drinking out of a glass by 1, and other silly things you were considered a horrible parent. And everyone, from storekeepers to school had to put their 2 cents in.

Most times the exams are well intended and to catch problems that parents may miss. And most times they allow you to use your own dr. I’ve never heard of a forced exam where you aren’t able to decide the practitioner.

You are aware that your younger daughter is behind in her speech. Why are you getting upset over this fact?

You are also putting words into the social workers mouth “neglectful and evil” because your child had stayed home. Why can’t it just be that she is concerned that a child who’s only encountered adults and a little sibling for the most part will have a hard time adjusting… especially one that wasn’t responding well.

Why does this make things communist and not just mainstream? I know 3 6 year olds well. One goes to public school, lives in an abysmal household with her single mom, her 3 siblings with different fathers, her aunt and 3 cousins with different fathers and her grandmother who has a infant.
The second is being raised by a single Catholic mother who’s spouse abandoned her.
The third is a little boy, middle of 5 who’s being home-schooled.

The little girl in public school is a true gem, great imagination, listens well, very sweet and a pleasure to be around. She is going places, despite her horrible background.
The second girl is a firecracker, funny and intelligent, and all over the place. Despite going being in daycare as an infant, pre-k and kindergarten even in First grade she still doesn’t listen to anything, and isn’t great at playing well in a group.
The little boy is very sweet but very scattered. He loves groups and is a natural leader. Being home-schooled with 2 older siblings he doesn’t often get to excercize this role and no doubt for better or worse he will develop differently being at home than in a peer group.

I fail to see how programs meant for child 1 would harm child 2 or 3. In-fact, I can only see benefits for child one and perks for child 2 and 3 as their parents are more aware of any surprise issues.
 
Well, the “collective is all” attitude is very Communist. These people don’t advocate cry-it-out or spanking, just detaching from the parent and putting a child in a gov’t institution at age 1 for 8 hours a day - this is Communist.

You just have to know the atmosphere. Orwell describes it rather well.

I wasn’t able to choose the practitioner - I have a designated gov’t one.

I wasn’t informed about any “program” the defectologist wanted to implement on my shy, introverted 5 yo - she refused to give me any information! That is also pretty Communist.

You have to have grown up in a Communist country just to know what kind of fear is inspired by people in authority, such as doctors and teachers - they’re like little gods you must obey and worship.

I wasn’t upset that my 2 yo is a little behind on her language - I didn’t say I was. I was baffled by the idea that this is because I don’t teach her onomatopoeic words!

We are a stable, two-parent family, with both parents in careers that allow us to spend a lot of time with our children. They also socialize with our friends’ and relatives’ children - in smaller groups, that is true. Is it really necessary for a child to be instantly ecstatic about being in a group of 20 kids?
I’m sorry I really don’t see how this is communist as much as its “old biddie” who has a government role.

I don’t know how many moms can attest to similar treatment in a small town. Nobody sais “molly coddling” anymore. But there was a time if you didn’t let a baby cry it out, didn’t spank a toddler or infant, potty train by 2, have a child drinking out of a glass by 1, and other silly things you were considered a horrible parent. And everyone, from storekeepers to school had to put their 2 cents in.

Most times the exams are well intended and to catch problems that parents may miss. And most times they allow you to use your own dr. I’ve never heard of a forced exam where you aren’t able to decide the practitioner.

You are aware that your younger daughter is behind in her speech. Why are you getting upset over this fact?

You are also putting words into the social workers mouth “neglectful and evil” because your child had stayed home. Why can’t it just be that she is concerned that a child who’s only encountered adults and a little sibling for the most part will have a hard time adjusting… especially one that wasn’t responding well.

Why does this make things communist and not just mainstream? I know 3 6 year olds well. One goes to public school, lives in an abysmal household with her single mom, her 3 siblings with different fathers, her aunt and 3 cousins with different fathers and her grandmother who has a infant.
The second is being raised by a single Catholic mother who’s spouse abandoned her.
The third is a little boy, middle of 5 who’s being home-schooled.

The little girl in public school is a true gem, great imagination, listens well, very sweet and a pleasure to be around. She is going places, despite her horrible background.
The second girl is a firecracker, funny and intelligent, and all over the place. Despite going being in daycare as an infant, pre-k and kindergarten even in First grade she still doesn’t listen to anything, and isn’t great at playing well in a group.
The little boy is very sweet but very scattered. He loves groups and is a natural leader. Being home-schooled with 2 older siblings he doesn’t often get to excercize this role and no doubt for better or worse he will develop differently being at home than in a peer group.

I fail to see how programs meant for child 1 would harm child 2 or 3. In-fact, I can only see benefits for child one and perks for child 2 and 3 as their parents are more aware of any surprise issues.
 
I feel I need to explain that my toddler is not “defective” in any way - she has a great ear and has been babbling in perfect intonational patterns since she was 6 months old.

She was just more interested in climbing, jumping, rolling around, running, building, kicking, and throwing in her first two years of life.

Once she realized language has the power to get her the desired object if it is only named, she’s been learning words avidly and very quickly!

So I have to say I’m not too worried about her. 🤷
 
Well, the “collective is all” attitude is very Communist. These people don’t advocate cry-it-out or spanking, just detaching from the parent and putting a child in a gov’t institution at age 1 for 8 hours a day - this is Communist.

You just have to know the atmosphere. Orwell describes it rather well.

I wasn’t able to choose the practitioner - I have a designated gov’t one.

I wasn’t informed about any “program” the defectologist wanted to implement on my shy, introverted 5 yo - she refused to give me any information! That is also pretty Communist.

You have to have grown up in a Communist country just to know what kind of fear is inspired by people in authority, such as doctors and teachers - they’re like little gods you must obey and worship.

I wasn’t upset that my 2 yo is a little behind on her language - I didn’t say I was. I was baffled by the idea that this is because I don’t teach her onomatopoeic words!

We are a stable, two-parent family, with both parents in careers that allow us to spend a lot of time with our children. They also socialize with our friends’ and relatives’ children - in smaller groups, that is true. Is it really necessary for a child to be instantly ecstatic about being in a group of 20 kids?
Only in modern times have learning 2 languages at once been seen as a good thing. My mother (and myself and my brothers) have spent our adult years trying to learn the native tounge of my grandmother who was discouraged from teaching to her children. It’s common.

Some dr’s get God complex’s but I’m sure there are other parents who feel the same way you do. With modern technology blind obedience is becoming a thing of the past.

And c’mon. Why wouldn’t you teach your kid onomatopoeic words? They’re basic and pretty innocuous. Is it really comunist that every child should know that a cat goes “meow”? Really?

You have valid points but they’re lost in your hysteria.
 
And my 5 yo is not problematic or a trouble-maker - she’s just shy and reserved in large groups and with strangers, while she can be very loud, opinionated, effusive and talkative in smaller groups.
 
Wow.

Young American parents can be in for a bit of a shock when they run into a medical or childcare professional that is considered very ‘old school’ and doesn’t know about/accept/or believe in their parenting choices.

Add into that years and years of cultural conditioning and Wow.
 
It’s a bitter cup to take when your children are criticized but I think what your husband thinks.
 
Thank you.

It’s the kind of system where you obey and fear doctors, not talk to them as equals.

I don’t think we’ll ever be homeschooling, but at least we’ll always be able to avoid being away from our daughters for more than around 4 mandatory hours a day, starting at age 5.
While I agree with your concern and reactions to what you were being told, I also have to say that the current “American” way of “talking to [doctors] as equals” has gone a bit haywire. Medical doctors go to medical school to become doctors, then spend years in residency and then specialize to get where they are. The concept that any parent of a two year old is just as qualified to make medical decisions as a doctor – because they’re equals – is a bit absurd. Sometimes you really do just need to obey the doctors.

Of course, when a woman who meets with your child in an intimidating environment claims your child is “behind” for being intimidated – that’s absurd too.
 
I understand. I’m not American and tend not to dare stand up to doctors, but in this case, I have a bit of education on the matter, too. I hold a BA in Linguistics and Literature, have taken several courses in child development and language acquisition, hold an M.Sc. and am writing a doctoral dissertation while teaching a language at university level, and am still intimidated by the very act of talking to a doctor. And she refuses to even inform me on what she proposes to do with my child to make her better adapted to the “collective”.

That’s the other extreme.
While I agree with your concern and reactions to what you were being told, I also have to say that the current “American” way of “talking to [doctors] as equals” has gone a bit haywire. Medical doctors go to medical school to become doctors, then spend years in residency and then specialize to get where they are. The concept that any parent of a two year old is just as qualified to make medical decisions as a doctor – because they’re equals – is a bit absurd. Sometimes you really do just need to obey the doctors.

Of course, when a woman who meets with your child in an intimidating environment claims your child is “behind” for being intimidated – that’s absurd too.
 
Only in modern times have learning 2 languages at once been seen as a good thing. My mother (and myself and my brothers) have spent our adult years trying to learn the native tounge of my grandmother who was discouraged from teaching to her children. It’s common.

Some dr’s get God complex’s but I’m sure there are other parents who feel the same way you do. With modern technology blind obedience is becoming a thing of the past.

And c’mon. Why wouldn’t you teach your kid onomatopoeic words? They’re basic and pretty innocuous. Is it really comunist that every child should know that a cat goes “meow”? Really?

You have valid points but they’re lost in your hysteria.
People have been acquiring several languages since births in multi-linguistic environments forever - it was only for a brief while that experts recommended against it, only to give it their blessing soon afterwards.

I have nothing against onomatopoeic words per se - my children have always preferred just actually imitating animals and this was never something that I consciously tried to teach them. I do find the idea that there is no language development without this absurd.

I’m sorry if I come off as hysterical.
 
People have been acquiring several languages since births in multi-linguistic environments forever - it was only for a brief while that experts recommended against it, only to give it their blessing soon afterwards.

I have nothing against onomatopoeic words per se - my children have always preferred just actually imitating animals and this was never something that I consciously tried to teach them. I do find the idea that there is no language development without this absurd.

I’m sorry if I come off as hysterical.
You don’t. :hug1:
 
LitCrit,
Listen to your husband, who knows both you and the situation in your country better than we do!

I have heard so many mothers say similar things–and I myself was worried when they counted the bruises on my 2yo’s legs: lack of bruises can mean the parents aren’t letting them explore enough, too many can indicate all sorts of things including too much Tylenol.

As a homeschooler, I know there are gaps in everyone’s education. My kids don’t know the rules of football, but other kids don’t know how to build and roof sheds. Your child may not know the days of the week, but the child down the street’s mother forgot to teach her child a second language… and so it goes.

Anyway, some medical practitioners are just nasty like that. No matter what field they are in, they like to intimidate people and feel powerful. Do your best to let their comments roll off your back, say a prayer for them, and move along.

{{{{Hugs}}}} I know those are horrible experiences. Maybe your husband can take them in next time 🙂

(I also think it is very cool that you do what you do!)

Annie
 
Only in modern times have learning 2 languages at once been seen as a good thing. My mother (and myself and my brothers) have spent our adult years trying to learn the native tounge of my grandmother who was discouraged from teaching to her children. It’s common.
It may be common, but it is also proven to be false.
Some dr’s get God complex’s but I’m sure there are other parents who feel the same way you do. With modern technology blind obedience is becoming a thing of the past.
In some places it is, but apparantly it is still expected where the OP lives as that is precisely what the OP was expected to do, to blindly hand their child over to some program without being given any information about the program itself. 🤷
And c’mon. Why wouldn’t you teach your kid onomatopoeic words? They’re basic and pretty innocuous. Is it really comunist that every child should know that a cat goes “meow”? Really?

You have valid points but they’re lost in your hysteria.
Really? The point isn’t that the OP is refusing to teach onomatopoeic words but rather that she is being told she is a bad parent because she just didn’t happen to teach them.
 
My husband told me we should just ignore it all and keep doing our thing. But I can’t help feeling both reprimanded as a bad mother AND afraid for my child in the future, if people like this ever get to her.
Your husband sounds like a wise and wonderful person. Go get a great big hug from him for being a good mom. 😃
 
People have been acquiring several languages since births in multi-linguistic environments forever - it was only for a brief while that experts recommended against it, only to give it their blessing soon afterwards.

I have nothing against onomatopoeic words per se - my children have always preferred just actually imitating animals and this was never something that I consciously tried to teach them. I do find the idea that there is no language development without this absurd.

I’m sorry if I come off as hysterical.
Not at all. A lot of Americans don’t understand what Communism is, although we are hovering dangerously close to it ourselves. 😦
 
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