Posture during the Lord's Prayer

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utah_rose said:
I do too. I read that holding your hands up is imitating the priest and the priest alone should do this but others disagree.
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I would respectfully disagree also. Why would one prayer position be only for a priest? Where did you read that and what supports such a thing?
 
I hold my hands clasped together. We don’t do the hand-holding thing at my parish.
 
rondirect said:
I would respectfully disagree also. Why would one prayer position be only for a priest? Where did you read that and what supports such a thing?
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I THINK that the reason is because the GIRM doesn’t direct the congregation to use the oran position. What is not expressly permitted is therefore prohibited.
 
on_the_hill said:
I THINK that the reason is because the GIRM doesn’t direct the congregation to use the oran position. What is not expressly permitted is therefore prohibited.
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The GIRM does not expressively give any direction to do anything when reciting the Lord’s Prayer; therefore, any position is prohibited then?
 
rondirect said:
I would respectfully disagree also. Why would one prayer position be only for a priest? Where did you read that and what supports such a thing?
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from: ewtn.com/expert/answers/orans_posture.htm

"Our Father. The intention for lay people using the Orans position at this time is, I suppose, that we pray Our Father, and the unity of people and priest together is expressed by this common gesture of prayer. Although this gesture is not called for in the rubrics, it does at least seem, on the surface, to not be in conflict with the sacramental sign system at the point when we pray Our Father. I say on the surface, however, since while lay people are doing this the deacon, whose postures are governed by the rubrics, may not do it. So, we have the awkward disunity created by the priest making an appropriate liturgical gesture in accordance with the rubrics, the deacon not making the same gesture in accordance with the rubrics, some laity making the same gesture as the priest not in accordance with the rubrics, and other laity not making the gesture (for various reasons, including knowing it is not part of their liturgical role). In the end, the desire of the Church for liturgical unity is defeated."
 
Maddie26 said:
I read once (can’t remember which book, but it was an old book) that only the priest should pray in the orans position during mass since he was the one offering the sacrifice. Has anyone else heard that?
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Yes. But cannot confirm it.
 
retire_early said:
from: ewtn.com/expert/answers/orans_posture.htm

"Our Father. The intention for lay people using the Orans position at this time is, I suppose, that we pray Our Father, and the unity of people and priest together is expressed by this common gesture of prayer. Although this gesture is not called for in the rubrics, it does at least seem, on the surface, to not be in conflict with the sacramental sign system at the point when we pray Our Father. I say on the surface, however, since while lay people are doing this the deacon, whose postures are governed by the rubrics, may not do it. So, we have the awkward disunity created by the priest making an appropriate liturgical gesture in accordance with the rubrics, the deacon not making the same gesture in accordance with the rubrics, some laity making the same gesture as the priest not in accordance with the rubrics, and other laity not making the gesture (for various reasons, including knowing it is not part of their liturgical role). In the end, the desire of the Church for liturgical unity is defeated."
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Sorry, but that answer does not hold water. It is from a blog and not a document and the opperative words here are, “I suppose.”
 
rondirect said:
Sorry, but that answer does not hold water. It is from a blog and not a document and the opperative words here are, “I suppose.”
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Although I agree this is an opinion it is not from a blog but the EWTN web site written by
Colin B. Donovan, STL
Colin Donovan is Vice President for Theology at EWTN and host of the Friday edition of Open Line (3-5 pm ET) on the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network. He moderates, as well, the EWTN Theology Roundtable, a monthly series on EWTN television. In addition, he co-hosted, with author Desmond Birch, Last Things: In Time and Eternity, a series on Eschatology and the End Times (EWTN Religious Catalogue item HDLT).

A layman, Mr. Donovan has the Licentiate in Sacred Theology, with a specialization in moral theology, from the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas (Angelicum) in Rome, where he wrote on the Donation of the Spouses in Marriage. He earned the B.Th. from the Seminary of Christ the King in Mission, BC, Canada, and the BA in Biological Science from Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. Prior to coming to EWTN in 1995, he taught Theology at Aquinas College in Nashville, as well as served in the U.S. Navy as a shipboard Communications Officer.
I am assuming perhaps wrongly that you didn’t read the link?
 
adrift said:
Although I agree this is an opinion it is not from a blog but the EWTN web site written by
Colin B. Donovan, STL
Colin Donovan is Vice President for Theology at EWTN and host of the Friday edition of Open Line (3-5 pm ET) on the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network. He moderates, as well, the EWTN Theology Roundtable, a monthly series on EWTN television. In addition, he co-hosted, with author Desmond Birch, Last Things: In Time and Eternity, a series on Eschatology and the End Times (EWTN Religious Catalogue item HDLT).

A layman, Mr. Donovan has the Licentiate in Sacred Theology, with a specialization in moral theology, from the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas (Angelicum) in Rome, where he wrote on the Donation of the Spouses in Marriage. He earned the B.Th. from the Seminary of Christ the King in Mission, BC, Canada, and the BA in Biological Science from Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. Prior to coming to EWTN in 1995, he taught Theology at Aquinas College in Nashville, as well as served in the U.S. Navy as a shipboard Communications Officer.
I am assuming perhaps wrongly that you didn’t read the link?
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Impressive, but nonetheless, like you say, an opinion. I’ll refer to the GIRM, thank you.
 
I too have heard that only the priest should use the orans position but I have never found a document from the Church. The GIRM states
  1. After the Eucharistic Prayer is concluded, the priest, with hands joined, says the introduction to the Lord’s Prayer. With hands extended, he then says this prayer together with the people.
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  1. After the Lord’s Prayer is concluded, the priest alone, with hands extended, says the embolism Libera nos (Deliver us). At the end, the people make the acclamation, Quia tuum est regnum (For the kingdom).
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  1. Then the priest, with hands extended, says aloud the prayer, Domine Iesu Christe, qui dixisti (Lord Jesus Christ, you said). After this prayer is concluded, extending and then joining his hands, he gives the greeting of peace while facing the people and saying, Pax Domini sit simper vobiscum (The peace of the Lord be with you always). The people answer, Et cum spiritu tuo (And also with you). Afterwards, when appropriate, the priest adds, Offerte vobis pacem (Let us offer each other the sign of peace).
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No where does it state what the people should be doing with their hands. However, holding hands seems imho seems contra to the sign of peace.
 
rondirect said:
Impressive, but nonetheless, like you say, an opinion. I’ll refer to the GIRM, thank you.
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I think Colin Donovan’s interpretation makes a Lot Of Sense. Looks kind of crazy to have everyone in the church doing something different – some with hands joined, others not, some with arms around shoulders, some reaching across the aisles. Sort of a giant hullabaloo. :whacky:
 
adrift said:
However, holding hands seems imho seems contra to the sign of peace.
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True, but honestly, respectfully, so what? Where’s the harm? Singing the opening song is not contra to singing other songs or acclamations during the mass.
 
retire_early said:
I think Colin Donovan’s interpretation makes a Lot Of Sense. Looks kind of crazy to have everyone in the church doing something different – some with hands joined, others not, some with arms around shoulders, some reaching across the aisles. Sort of a giant hullabaloo. :whacky:
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So how do you propose to fix this “craziness?” You really can’t and calling it a “hullabaloo” is really not at all what it looks like. Different people, as we have read here, have different desires on how they want to position themselves for the LP. And, that’s good. It’s not wacky at all IMHO. Yeah, I like order too, but we cannot impose a ruling on how one must hold their hands in prayer and if they don’t, call it a “giant hullabaloo.” What?
 
I voted that I held my hands together. I usually do that but if someone wants to hold my hand I will hold hands. Sometimes I have my choir binder in my hand. :confused: What is the proper posture? Some people hold hands but not everyone can do that, and some people hold their arms out. There isn’t always room for me to do that. :confused:
 
rondirect said:
So how do you propose to fix this “craziness?” Just go back to not holding hands or mimicking the priest’s orens hand position.

You really can’t and calling it a “hullabaloo” is really not at all what it looks like. Yep, its a hullabaloo. Hullabaloo, hullabaloo, hullabaloo.

Different people, as we have read here, have different desires on how they want to position themselves for the LP. And what other desires do they have? How about prostration during the Agnus Dei? Or, liturgical dancing down the communion aisle?

And, that’s good. Black and white good? Or just a good idea, according to you?

Yeah, I like order too, but we cannot impose a ruling on how one must hold their hands in prayer and if they don’t, call it a “giant hullabaloo.” Do we impose a ruling on how communicants are to receive communion? How about other manners and customs in Mass? When everyone is in disarray and semi-confused about what they should be doing, its a distraction from worship.
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