Posture for Holy Communion-Clarified

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As I read all the posts in this thread and the other two that are nearly identical, one thing strikes me.

The documents from the CDW are pretty clear that, if a person choses to kneel or genuflect, then they are not to be denied Communion or to be called disobient.

There is no such “protection” offered for those (who vastly out-number the kneelers) who are being disobedient by not making any sign of reverence before receiving Communion.

So, if there is any *genuine concern * that the GIRM is somehow being disobeyed (not that I agree with that position) shouldn’t Suz, Marie et al go after those people who **really are ** disobeying the GIRM outright by making no sign of reverence at all. This seems like a bigger issue than bickering over which sign of reverence has priority 🙂
 
No one here has said they will not give the sign of reverence. When it is not done, it is usually because of ignorance of the norm, or just not yet in the habit.

I would agree that it would be a serious offence to decide on your own authority which sign of reverence is to be used, or to omit it altogether. However I do feel that it is also a serious problem when people kneel when there are no provisions. This is a safety hazard as well as not following the norm.

As I said, If there are provisions, it is not a serious problem in either area because if there are provisions, the Pastor did relax the norm, and also there is no safety problem, or disruption of the procession.

The correct way to approach a problem is to seek a lawful solution, not flaunt your rights.

Padre Pio said that even if you are right and they are wrong, you must obey, how much more when it is not a question of right or wrong—it is just following a norm—neither kneeling or standing is wrong.
 
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Again, the CDW said standing was allowed with the understanding those that want to kneel may kneel.
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Again–a law takes precedence over an instruction. There is no such stipulation in the law.

Also the instruction says they may not be denied Communion—different than allowed.
 
+JMJ+

Please understand that I mean this response to be charitable.

I grew up in a very traditional Parish and have been catechized as to why certain things were done, etc. The things I do are not to show anyone up, and for someone to have a hang up with what I do and call it holier than thou is insulting to me. I wear a veil as a way of humbling myself in the Presence of the Lord not to show anyone up or to draw attention to myself. I genuflect before the blessed Sacrament as a show of acknoledgement and respect for my Lord in the Tabernacle. I kneel to receive Communion because I am in awe of the Sacrament I am about to receive. God knows your heart and mine. We can assume to know ones heart but God truly knows. The Mass and the Eucharist are an intense time of prayer for me. We should focus in the prayerful intentions of our actions and not on the actions separate from prayer. I think we had a couple Gospel readings these past two days regarding this. Instead of being preoccupied with whether everyone is kneeling, standing, genuflecting, bowing, sitting, cartwheeling, or appraoching on a pogo stick (sarcasm, of course), perhaps praying for the Holy Spirit to renounce distractions and be more focused would be better than polling.

Pax Christi
 
Padre Pio said that even if you are right and they are wrong, you must obey,
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citation, please??

I have never heard this as an exhortation to the faithful, rather as advice he gave to his own sister regarding being obedient to her religious superior. This is a whole different level of obedience than most of us face.

The issue here, at least regarding posture for Communion is not whether someone is disobedient or not. The issue is really a question of which authority one feels bound to obey. It is a bit of a grey area which is probably why the CDW doesnt’ want charges of being disobedient being levied at anyone. In spite of that several posters here continue to accuse others of being disobedient in spite of instruct to cease and desist. The only people who are being disobedient are those who show no sign of reverence at all when receiving.
 
Now if there is one person out of 500 in a Mass that has to kneel…big deal, that show boat mentality will catch up to that person.
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Gross generalization.

In our parish, there is only one man as far as I have ever seen who kneels to receive. If you saw him, there is no way you could even for a moment think he was “show boating”. He is the epitomy of humility and reverence. And while I don’t kneel myself, I would wear my fingers to the bone fighting for his right to continue kneeling to receive Our Lord. And I don’t even know his name.
 
maryprayforme . I think we had a couple Gospel readings these past two days regarding this. Instead of being preoccupied with whether everyone is kneeling said:
If you do not notice one kneeling in the middle of a standing procession, you will probably trip over them, as has been mentioned.
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Mysty101:
This is a safety hazard as well as not following the norm.
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Hazard? The bigger hazard is not being in a state of grace. The rush to grab the Eucharist is a much bigger scandal than kneeling. How have we come to the point where kneeling is a bad thing?
 
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kmktexas:
citation, please??

I have never heard this as an exhortation to the faithful, rather as advice he gave to his own sister regarding being obedient to her religious superior. This is a whole different level of obedience than most of us face.
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I was using this as an example of the importance of obedience. It is importanr for the faithful to subjugate their will.
 
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Mysty101:
I was using this as an example of the importance of obedience. It is importanr for the faithful to subjugate their will.
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True, so please accept the Vatican directive that kneeling is more than acceptable.
 
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Hazard? The bigger hazard is not being in a state of grace. The rush to grab the Eucharist is a much bigger scandal than kneeling. How have we come to the point where kneeling is a bad thing?
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And just exactly do you know that someone is not in the state of grace? Judging another’s soul is a very serious matter—far more serious than judging postures.
 
If you do not notice one kneeling in the middle of a standing procession, you will probably trip over them, as has been mentioned.
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Perhaps then, that is an issue for an optometrist rather than a Catholic Apologetics thread.
 
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Mysty101:
And just exactly do you know that someone is not in the state of grace? Judging another’s soul is a very serious matter—far more serious than judging postures.
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I was not speaking in particular, but as a general sentiment. Please do not play coy.

If you want to play cop, instead of trying to enforce a false law aginst kneeling, spend you time evangelizing about mortal sin, infrequent confession and reception of communion unworthily.
 
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maryprayforme:
Perhaps then, that is an issue for an optometrist rather than a Catholic Apologetics thread.
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It was you who said we shouldn’t notice what others are doing.
 
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Mysty101:
Absolutely not—The GIRM is the liturgical law.
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The GIRM, like all law, requires an authentic interpreter, which is not you or me, but the Vatican. Your argument is with the authorities in Rome. Good luck.
 
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Mysty101:
And just exactly do you know that someone is not in the state of grace? Judging another’s soul is a very serious matter—far more serious than judging postures.
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No one knows that and I doubt people are preoccupied with trying to assume the state of one’s soul. If someone is judging your soul then forgive them and pray for them - as that is a matter between that person and God. Defensiveness does not yield conversions. And the same argument can be applied to judging postures - a posture does not determine the state of one’s souls. As I pointed out earlier, the Gospel readings of 2/9/05 and 2/8/05 addressed this. The tone of your posts deal with posture as if they are a judgement of one’s state of grace.
 
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I was not speaking in particular, but as a general sentiment. Please do not play coy.

If you want to play cop, instead of trying to enforce a false law aginst kneeling, spend you time evangelizing about mortal sin, infrequent confession and reception of communion unworthily.
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The norm is the norm—You do not need to agree, but you should respect the law. This is something of fact, which I can know.

I will not speculate on whether or not someone is worthy to receive, or how often they confess.
 
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