Pot Permissible...?

[Joey1976]

Possibly. And handguns kill more people than hydrogen bombs. This does not mean hydrogen bombs are inherently safer to use than handguns, but that far more handguns exist and are used, or rather misused, than hydrogen bombs.

Likewise the fact that prescription drugs kill more people than heroin and cocaine (if that is a fact) does not prove that heroin and cocaine are inherently safer than prescription medicines, of which there are countless types and combinations, but simply that there are many, many times more people using and sometimes misusing prescription drugs. A more useful gauge to the safety of heroin and cocaine would be to compare:

The ratio of the number of persons killed by prescription drugs to the total number of persons using prescription drugs

to

The ratio of the number of persons killed by heroin or cocaine to the total number of persons using heroin or cocaine.

My point is that marijuana has never killed anyone. You can’t OD on it if you use it or misuse it.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

My point is that marijuana has never killed anyone. You can’t OD on it if you use it or misuse it.

Doctors have long suspected that long term marijuana use can lead to full blown schizophrenia. Is that a burden anyone here would like to deal with?

Again, if used in moderation I see no problem with people smoking marijuana rec’lly. No one ever killed themselves or anyone else (unless they were driving) because they were smoking marijuana.

 

[Joey1976]

Doctors have long suspected that long term marijuana use can lead to full blown schizophrenia. Is that a burden anyone here would like to deal with?

Again, if used in moderation I see no problem with people smoking marijuana rec’lly. No one ever killed themselves or anyone else (unless they were driving) because they were smoking marijuana.

The correlation of marijuana and schizophrenia is not even close to be proven true. marijuana use has sky rocketed and schzophrenia has not. So, how is there a correlation. When ciagrette smoking increased in the population, so did lung cancer increase. When smoking rates fell, so did lung cancer rates. Now that is correlation.

I also agree that recreational smoking of marijuana is ok also. If drinking in moderation is ok then why not marijuana also?

 

[peso73]

I do think there is a difference between a glass of wine and a toke on a joint. You can have a drink without getting inebriated, but nobody takes a toke on a joint without at least intending to get high.

People can and do have the glass of wine because they like the way it tastes. A mild inebriation would be a side-effect that could, in moderation, be seen as a plus. I don’t think that a very mild intoxication - one that doesn’t effect your judgement - is a bad thing. If it helps you unwind a bit or socially relax, it may be beneficial. But, it’s a very fine line and I’m not sure I can really locate where it becomes problematic. Basically, you only know you’ve crossed that line AFTER you’ve already crossed it.

But, smoking a joint for non-medical reasons is ALWAYS done SOLELY in order to achieve inebriation Well, I guess some people do it because they want to go along with the crowd. But, my point is that pot has only one purpose and that is to alter your brain chemistry.

I’m not sure it’s OK to treat our brains like playgrounds.

I never cared for pot, but I used to take mushrooms on rare occassions. There’s a reason they call it “a trip.” You are literally going on a mental “trip” and eating the mushroom is about the same as buckling yourself into a seat on an airplane. I don’t think it’s right to seek out an experience where reality seems altered. It just doesn’t seem to jibe with the Natural Law.

Well, although I no longer partake of the herb myself, the “high” produced, while different for different people depending on personal physiology I suppose, is not like an opiate, or cocaine, etc, it does affect a different “perception” of reality and I believe besides “fun” it can lend itself to spiritual growth… (ie. meditation, prayer, and even scripture reading, although I hope no one takes offense to the suggestion, I have found it “eye-opening” in the past)
The medical community does now accept it’s usefulness for certain ailments pretty much across the board…here in California it is legal with a doctors’ note, basically…unless the feds get involved…I think for some it is bad, for others it may be good, in moderation, and most folks against it as an immoral drug have never experianced it (ie.“I don’t do drugs”) which is ok, but they usually DO take asprin, drink coffee, even some smoke tobacco, (more deadly than marijuana, there are no medical records of pot causing lung cancer…emphesma, yeah…and that’ll getcha to…but not cancer) and alcohol is far more dangerous. I know they mean illegal drugs, but the main reason pot is illegal here in the US has to do with the cotton industy’s influence on congress in the 30’s if you want to believe those historians, and abortion is legal, but that don’t make it okay, so…

 

[Joey1976]

I think for some it is bad, for others it may be good, in moderation, and most folks against it as an immoral drug have never experianced it (ie.“I don’t do drugs”) which is ok, but they usually DO take asprin, drink coffee, even some smoke tobacco, (more deadly than marijuana, there are no medical records of pot causing lung cancer…emphesma, yeah…and that’ll getcha to…but not cancer) and alcohol is far more dangerous…

I agree with you. Especially your first line where you say “i think for some it is bad, for others may be good in moderation”. The same could be said for the legal alcohol. Some people are able to drink it in moderation and be fine, while others can’t handle it and shouldn’t even touch it. But yet it is still legal and the Church says it is fine in moderation. That’s one of the reasons i think alcohol being legal and marijuana being illegal is unjust. I just don’t think you can lump marijuana in with drugs, It is not a drug, it is a plant. It is an illegal substance but not an illegal drug.

 

[Nino]

words do hurt…to be called a ‘square’ from 1880 to 1950 was a compliment…one was fair and honest…our rulers ,in order to smear TR for calling his administration the square deal…changed…started with Norton on the honeymooners…hey Ralph how can someone so round be so square…laugh track…by the time Fonzi showed up…square maeant naive and oujtdated…see how it works…mind altering drugs have existed for centuries,for the upper class…when after the industrial revolution,a middle class appeared the drug cartell had to brainwash them…words like Dope were used for one was a dope for using that poison.but by the late 50s other words were tried…weed ,no good,grass .(keep off the grass) no good, joint…no they hurt…when I had cafeteria duty in the high school I taught at.the seniors sat farthest away from the ladies and the food…the juniors and sophomores sat on the sides.but the frightened frosh sat nearest to the women…and …you guessed it…the pot…POT what makes a scared kid feel better when he gets home…opens the front door,while the smells from the kitchen…from Mommys POT…and so the ruling class drug dealers invented the word POT for a very harmful substance that has been around for centuries…notice how cutsy it sounds…Satan like city bank,never sleeps…as J.Edgar called the SOB s…they are Masters of Deceit…and so they are…

 

[Metaron]

I do think there is a difference between a glass of wine and a toke on a joint. You can have a drink without getting inebriated, but nobody takes a toke on a joint without at least intending to get high…But, smoking a joint for non-medical reasons is ALWAYS done SOLELY in order to achieve inebriation Well, I guess some people do it because they want to go along with the crowd. But, my point is that pot has only one purpose and that is to alter your brain chemistry.
…I never cared for pot, but I used to take mushrooms on rare occassions. There’s a reason they call it “a trip.” You are literally going on a mental “trip” and eating the mushroom is about the same as buckling yourself into a seat on an airplane. I don’t think it’s right to seek out an experience where reality seems altered. It just doesn’t seem to jibe with the Natural Law.

Um, you can’t really compare hallucinogens with marijuana. If hallucinogens were ever legalized, I think it would still be a sin of imprudence to take part in it. Marijuana, on the other hand, mellows you out. Alchohol is even worse for you than marijuana, and the gateway-drug theory has been proved wrong by studies done in Holland and other places.

 

[deb1]

).

I’m actually for the legalization of commercial hemp production in the USA, just keep the sale of the flower illegal (processed or not) to eliminate the primary gateway drug risk (that you can only get it from drug dealers) but turn a blind eye to kids picking their own from the edge of the hemp fiber patch.

I was under the impression that the type of marijuana that is used for hemp has less of the chemical THC(did I get that right). SO, there wouldn’t be a problem with kids sneaking the hemp plants.

Our country’s stance on hemp plants is silly and makes no sense. From what I understand, you can grow hemp if you get a special stamp from the government, but the US government refuses to give this stamp out. :hypno:

 

[teadough]

I don’t think it’s right to seek out an experience where reality seems altered. It just doesn’t seem to jibe with the Natural Law.

I think you summed it all right there. If someone is or can be fully commited to God then there is no reason to use an “outside substance” to help you relax after work. If you really need something to calm you down after work then you might wan’t to consider a different line of work.Maybe God is trying to tell you something or maybe you are in it for the money. You can use a million different excuses to justify your use of smoking herb.None of them will really make sense if you have an honest and open relationship with God.

I love when people say “Pot helps me to Pray or focus on God better”. I would say that you have not learned how to pray or meditate. It takes practice. If someone continually uses pot to help them relax or pray then they will never know what it is like to get in sync with God in a natural way.

The trick is to surrender to the flow

 

[gmags2003]

I think you summed it all right there. If someone is or can be fully commited to God then there is no reason to use an “outside substance” to help you relax after work. If you really need something to calm you down after work then you might wan’t to consider a different line of work.Maybe God is trying to tell you something or maybe you are in it for the money. You can use a million different excuses to justify your use of smoking herb.None of them will really make sense if you have an honest and open relationship with God.

I love when people say “Pot helps me to Pray or focus on God better”. I would say that you have not learned how to pray or meditate. It takes practice. If someone continually uses pot to help them relax or pray then they will never know what it is like to get in sync with God in a natural way.

The trick is to surrender to the flow

Isn’t marijuana natural?

 

[davidv]

Isn’t marijuana natural?

Just like poison ivy.

 

[AeroChunky]

I think it’s more like:

Just like Coffee is natural…or St. John’s Wort is natural.

Ya know: Slightly intoxicating, less to than alchohol, and with moderate use, no harm done to the body at all.

 

[fbl9]

myself i view moderate use is still a sin but a venial sin. if getting that toke is what is preocuppying one all day then it is more than a venial sin. i have my own reasons for a puff there are times when it is a social thing. i do agree though using it as a wind down has been my main excuse for it. one post mentioned something about pot use for opening the mind for bible reading,something i have done but do not endorse, i no longer feel it is right to read His word while on anything that is not really needed. remember what happened to the hippies that claimed it was good for the soul.

 

[fmagill]

Isn’t marijuana natural?

That misses the point, I believe. Hemlock is also natural, but if you drink it you die.

In this context, I took “natural” to mean by use of your own God-given capabilities, without the “assistance” of intoxicating substances.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church provides as follows:

"2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law. "

The first two sentences seem applicable here, and they say nothing about the drugs having to be illegal before their use is, objectively speaking, considered to be a sin. Of course, the usual pastoral considerations apply to any individual case, by which the gravity of the offense may be mitigated. I suppose you can argue that marijuana is not one of the “drugs” referred to in the CCC, and/or that its use does not inflict “very grave damage on human health and life”, but I think you’d be mistaken on both counts.

 

[teadough]

That misses the point, I believe. Hemlock is also natural, but if you drink it you die.

In this context, I took “natural” to mean by use of your own God-given capabilities, without the “assistance” of intoxicating substances.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church provides as follows:

"2291 The use of drugs. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law. "

. I suppose you can argue that marijuana is not one of the “drugs” referred to in the CCC.

I am pretty sure it is refering to Pot,too. Even if you play your argument towards a country that allows the sale and use of Pot you still have a country that is smuggling drugs out of the area,thus that is where the CCC quote comes in.

It is such a touchy subject. Yes,it is safer than alcohol in many degrees,but then again you don’t have a underground operation of people banking off the sale of drugs. On the flipside you have people getting wiped out by drunk drivers every day.Why add to the fule of people getting killed by vehicles?I am sure someone will say “oh,man,people can drive after smoking herb”. That is a extremely false statement with no backing at all. I guess between the 2 the drunk driver is way worse.

I`

 

[peso73]

I am sure someone will say “oh,man,people can drive after smoking herb”. That is a extremely false statement with no backing at all. I guess between the 2 the drunk driver is way worse.

I`
Not a false statement, by personal experiance, although, like alcohol, it depends entirely on the quantity consumed and the time passed since intake…but here’s a funny story I heard once,
The drunk driver sees he’s about to miss his exit off the freeway, and without signaling or even looking, swerves across 3 lanes to make it off the freeway on his desired exit…
The sober driver sees he’s about to miss his exit off the freeway, and without signaling or even looking, swerves across 3 lanes to make it off the freeway on his desired exit…
The stoned driver sees he’s about to miss his exit off the freeway, goes,“oh, man!”, and proceedes to signal, wait for a safe opportunity to change lanes, gradually makes his way over to the right line and takes the next offramp… :doh2:
Obviously not always the case, but maybe more true than false, esp. here in L.A.

 

[teadough]

I am sure someone will say “oh,man,people can drive after smoking herb”. That is a extremely false statement with no backing at all. I guess between the 2 the drunk driver is way worse.

I`

peso73
New Member
“Not a false statement, by personal experiance, although, like alcohol, it depends entirely on the quantity consumed and the time passed since intake”.

The statement you just made is exactly opposite of what I was implying. I am talking about the people that smoke,then drive. And,I,too,am quite aware of the affects of getting high. I did not grow up under a rock. I grew up following the Grateful Dead

 

[fbl9]

thank you for giving what the church actually teachs on this matter.i will discuss this subject with my parish priest, next sunday right after i recieve the scarament of reconcillation. thank you again fmagill.

 

[Joey1976]

That misses the point, I believe. Hemlock is also natural, but if you drink it you die.

In this context, I took “natural” to mean by use of your own God-given capabilities, without the “assistance” of intoxicating substances.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church provides as follows:

"2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law. "

The first two sentences seem applicable here, and they say nothing about the drugs having to be illegal before their use is, objectively speaking, considered to be a sin. Of course, the usual pastoral considerations apply to any individual case, by which the gravity of the offense may be mitigated. I suppose you can argue that marijuana is not one of the “drugs” referred to in the CCC, and/or that its use does not inflict “very grave damage on human health and life”, but I think you’d be mistaken on both counts.

look what the catechism says right above your catechism quote:.
2290 " The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grace guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air."

How can the Church say it is okay to use alcohol and tobacco in moderation and not marijuana. You put marijuana in with drugs, it is not a drug, it is a plant like Tobacco. Tobacco is more of a drug than marijuana because of all the things added to it. Tobacco has many harmful chemicals added to it that kill you. Marijuana is natural. Also, tobacco is harmful to others and it endangers others because of second hand smoke which has been proven to be just as dangerous. Tobacco is not used for medicinal purposes. I just don’t see how tobacco could be used in moderation at all. What does that mean? Two cigarettes a day??? That could still give you lung cancer, it is still doing harm to you no matter what and could endanger others if you live with someone because of the second hand smoke.
People can get a hard buzz off of one glass of wine, I have. And you can get a really hard buzz after smoking one cigar. So the whole argument on marijuana’s effects don’t hold any water.

Also teadough says:
“I think you summed it all right there. If someone is or can be fully commited to God then there is no reason to use an “outside substance” to help you relax after work. If you really need something to calm you down after work then you might wan’t to consider a different line of work.Maybe God is trying to tell you something or maybe you are in it for the money. You can use a million different excuses to justify your use of smoking herb.None of them will really make sense if you have an honest and open relationship with God.”

One beer could make you relax or a cigarette also. Those are outside substances and that is what most people use those for, is to relax. The Church says that is ok in moderation. So the Church says you can use an outside substance such as that. For the Church to be against marijuana all together it would have to be against alcohol and tobacco altoegther, not even in moderation.

 

[teadough]

Joey1976

I think you are missing the point of what I was saying. Hope I don’t come off wrong. The CCC is coming at all angles on this. One of them is from the angle of “underground” operations and the affect that it has on people. The illegal distribution has a widerange of negative effects.

You said a glass of wine can has given you a buzz as does getting high,right? Either you smoked really bad pot or you were use to the affects of pot.

Also,you have got to be kidding if you are comparing Herb to having a cigarette or beer to relax.And yes,cigarettes are bad. Worse in terms of death per year. Cigarrets kill more people than alcohol and drugs combined.

Look, I am not some anti-drug promotor. If anything I would argue the point of legalizing marijuana on the grounds of the prison and court systems being overrun with minor offences that are affecting peoples lives.