Potential question from people of other religions

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What do you all think of this question from, say, an informed Hindu/Buddhist:

Do Christians really want their religion to be true? If you really want your religion to be true, doesnt that mean that Christians want most of the world to be damned since the Bible says that most will be damned (totally unchangeable, set-in-stone situation) and you all know that the vast majority in the world today wont embrace Christianity.

To summarize:

[1]. The Christian religion says the vast majority has already been damned (absolutely totally unchangeable situation, regardless of the amount of evangelism done).

[2]. The vast majority has already been damned if the Christian religion is true.

[3]. If Christians want/prefer/wish their religion to be true, they want/prefer/wish that the vast majority is already damned rather than that the vast majority is not damned.

Negative [3]: If Christians dont want their religion to be true, they dont want/prefer/wish that the vast majority is already damned.

This argument can also be modified to be used by the opposition forces to imply that Christians want more most of those living today to be damned in the future.

Tell me what you think on this one. I need to deal with people who might come up with this in everyday life.

Thanks heaps everyone!!
 
What do you all think of this question from, say, an informed Hindu/Buddhist:

Do Christians really want their religion to be true?

[1]. The Christian religion says the vast majority has already been sent to Hell (absolutely totally unchangeable situation, regardless of the amount of evangelism done).

[2]. The vast majority has already been sent to Hell if the Christian religion is true.

[3]. If Christians want/prefer/wish their religion to be true, they want/prefer/wish that the vast majority is already in torment rather than that the vast majority is not in torment.

Negative [3]: If Christians dont want their religion to be true, they dont want/prefer/wish that the vast majority is already in torment.

This argument can also be modified to be used by the opposition forces to imply that Christians want more most of those living today to be in Hell in the future.
(one can argue that in this case, the fate of those people is still alterable while they are alive, as we can still evangelize them. However, the Bible says that going to Heaven is a narrow gate AND a narrow way and FEW make it, so it seems regardless of evangelism, the vast majority of people will still go to Hell in the future, because it is already predicted that it will be a vast majority, so the writing is already on the wall).

I get the feeling that we are gonna be called “Narrow minded Bigots” by the world, which ever way we answer this question.

Tell me what you think on this one. I need to deal with people who might come up with this in everyday life.

Thanks heaps everyone!!
 
Bonocorium said:
What do you all think of this question from, say, an informed Hindu/Buddhist:

Do Christians really want their religion to be true? If you really want your religion to be true, doesnt that mean that Christians want most of the world to be damned since the Bible says that most will be damned (totally unchangeable, set-in-stone situation) and you all know that the vast majority in the world today wont embrace Christianity.

To summarize:

[1]. The Christian religion says the vast majority has already been damned (absolutely totally unchangeable situation, regardless of the amount of evangelism done).

[2]. The vast majority has already been damned if the Christian religion is true.

[3]. If Christians want/prefer/wish their religion to be true, they want/prefer/wish that the vast majority is already damned rather than that the vast majority is not damned.

Negative [3]: If Christians dont want their religion to be true, they dont want/prefer/wish that the vast majority is already damned.

This argument can also be modified to be used by the opposition forces to imply that Christians want more most of those living today to be damned in the future.

Tell me what you think on this one. I need to deal with people who might come up with this in everyday life.

Thanks heaps everyone!!
Click to expand...
I’d be surprised if a Hindu or Buddhist had read so much of the Bible and other Christian writings to learn that salvation is desired, and yet not read enough of it to know that Christians are therefore called upon to evangelize. Simply, God wants us to help each other out, the same way a parent asks an older child to keep an eye on another child.

Specifically in the Catholic Church, it’s well documented that God gives everyone sufficient grace to be saved, so even Hindus or Buddhists can be saved. And of course, not all baptized Christians will be saved because they may turn away from the faith. But the normal path of salvation is through Christ’s church and adhering to His teachings.

Not all Protestant communities may have that specific teaching. Some are as you describe, and some are Universalis in theology if not in name. But that’s what the Catholic church holds to be true.
 
It isn’t a question of whether Christians “want” anyone to be damned; it is a question of how everyone in the world responds to the grace given to them by God, regardless if one is Christian or not.

Besides, we don’t know who is damned or not. Not all Catholics go to heaven but everyone in heaven is a Catholic.
 
Hopefully someone with better qualifications to answer this question than me will chime in on this. But I’m going to give it a shot.

1 The Catholic Church offers a path to salvation. We believe that if you can follow this path you will avoid hell.
2 The Cathollic Church doesn’t say that anyone is in hell.
3 We beleive in a mercifull God, it is possible he grants mercy to others that don’t follow this path.

I’ve heard it explained that a person who was in another faith (Hindu/budism/whatever) if that person was truly searching for God with all of their heart and trying to do what they thought was pleasing to God, then it is possible that God would have mercy on that person. The problem is that we humans don’t know who gets to go where after death.
 
Your friend’s initial premise is false, in that it is not, and never has been Church teaching that a human majority goes to Hell.

We are required to believe in a Hell; and more to the point, to believe that we can go there. But there is no “reverse canonization”: nobody, not even Judas Iscariot has been formally proclaimed to be in Hell.

Blessed Advent and ICXC NIKA
 
The fundamental flaw here is that the truth is the truth no matter what we want to believe!

The real question that should be asked is 1. is man fallen? the answer is yes. 2. can man be redeemed? the answer is yes. That’s the best news given the situation.

Maybe we should be asking them, if it is true that people are going to hell, is it better that we Christians be a light unto them, that the holy spirit shine on them and hopefully they be spared from this fate, or would it be better to be like you and pretend that it isn’t happening, simply because we don’t want it to be true?
 
Do you want it to be true that people starve to death? Regardless of your wishes, people do starve to death. If you work with an organisation that helps people avoid starving to death, does that mean you want it to be true?
 
GEddie said:
Your friend’s initial premise is false, in that it is not, and never has been Church teaching that a human majority goes to Hell.

We are required to believe in a Hell; and more to the point, to believe that we can go there. But there is no “reverse canonization”: nobody, not even Judas Iscariot has been formally proclaimed to be in Hell.

Blessed Advent and ICXC NIKA
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And we never will. The Church has never, and will likely never, declare that any particular person, or group of people for that matter, is in hell because we simply don’t know because of God’s infinite mercy and infinite justice, it is solely up to God where people are to be sent.
 
Bonocorium said:
What do you all think of this question from, say, an informed Hindu/Buddhist:

Do Christians really want their religion to be true?

[1]. The Christian religion says the vast majority has already been sent to Hell (absolutely totally unchangeable situation, regardless of the amount of evangelism done).

[2]. The vast majority has already been sent to Hell if the Christian religion is true.

[3]. If Christians want/prefer/wish their religion to be true, they want/prefer/wish that the vast majority is already in torment rather than that the vast majority is not in torment.

Negative [3]: If Christians dont want their religion to be true, they dont want/prefer/wish that the vast majority is already in torment.

This argument can also be modified to be used by the opposition forces to imply that Christians want more most of those living today to be in Hell in the future.
(one can argue that in this case, the fate of those people is still alterable while they are alive, as we can still evangelize them. However, the Bible says that going to Heaven is a narrow gate AND a narrow way and FEW make it, so it seems regardless of evangelism, the vast majority of people will still go to Hell in the future, because it is already predicted that it will be a vast majority, so the writing is already on the wall).

I get the feeling that we are gonna be called “Narrow minded Bigots” by the world, which ever way we answer this question.

Tell me what you think on this one. I need to deal with people who might come up with this in everyday life.

Thanks heaps everyone!!
Click to expand...
The argument is false because true Christianity - namely, Catholicism - does not specify that the vast majority of people are or will be in hell.

It is a strawman.

However, do Christians WANT their religion to be true? Of course. Because Christianity tells us that some will be saved. We just don’t know for sure how many.
 
Bonocorium said:
What do you all think of this question from, say, an informed Hindu/Buddhist:

Do Christians really want their religion to be true? If you really want your religion to be true, doesnt that mean that Christians want most of the world to be damned since the Bible says that most will be damned (totally unchangeable, set-in-stone situation) and you all know that the vast majority in the world today wont embrace Christianity.

To summarize:

[1]. The Christian religion says the vast majority has already been damned (absolutely totally unchangeable situation, regardless of the amount of evangelism done).

[2]. The vast majority has already been damned if the Christian religion is true.

[3]. If Christians want/prefer/wish their religion to be true, they want/prefer/wish that the vast majority is already damned rather than that the vast majority is not damned.

Negative [3]: If Christians dont want their religion to be true, they dont want/prefer/wish that the vast majority is already damned.

This argument can also be modified to be used by the opposition forces to imply that Christians want more most of those living today to be damned in the future.

Tell me what you think on this one. I need to deal with people who might come up with this in everyday life.

Thanks heaps everyone!!
Click to expand...
you have misunderstood Christ’s teaching to mean that only those with a christian label or name is qualified to see Him!
even those who are non-christians, if they lived the commandment of Christ ‘to love one another as i have loved you’, will definitely be saved!
it is ludicruous to believe that christians automatically enter Heaven, notwithstanding their scarlet-like sins!

surely this should be obvious even to a ‘5 year old’!

‘MANY ARE CALLED BUT ONLY A FEW ARE CHOSEN’ TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD, AND THIS MAY BE APPLIED FIRST TO ALL CHRISTIANS!
 
Bonocorium said:
Tell me what you think on this one.
Click to expand...
That it is a straw man.

The bible does not say that and the Church does not teach that.
Bonocorium said:
I need to deal with people who might come up with this in everyday life.
Click to expand...
Then I strongly recommend the Catechism as well as the source documents it references in order to get a proper understanding of the subject.
 
[1]. The Christian religion says the vast majority has already been damned (absolutely totally unchangeable situation, regardless of the amount of evangelism done).
Click to expand...
Well, since the Catholic Church doesn’t teach this and never has, I don’t see the issue.

We’re allowed to hope for any particular person’s salvation.
 
Well, thanks for some of the responses.

I keep hearing that the Church does not specify that the majority of those who have died are in Hell.
Doesnt the Bible say in several places that imply that most will go to Hell and if Jesus talked of the narrow way plus the narrow path 2000 years ago, then it must mean that over the 2000 years since it was spoken, the majority did go to Hell.
Why would the Church say something so contrary to this, especially in that for the first 1960 years of the Church’s existence, it held fast to Ex Ecclesia Nulla Sallus? [Including Ex-Cathedra from some popes].

The general notion from unbelievers is that Christianity teaches that most will go to Hell and few are saved. I think that I saw a different thread in this forum the other day where a lot of people agreed that most will go to Hell. This thread all of a sudden is so different.

A few other things:
-Timothysis #3] said: “Not all Catholics go to heaven but everyone in heaven is a Catholic”. Doesnt this exclude the majority of the world’s people?

-dontlookdown #4] said: “The Cathollic Church doesn’t say that anyone is in hell.”
Surely during the Ex Ecclesia Nulla Sallus period, the church’s teaching of the doctrine implied that Jew, Greek, Schismatic, Heretic all cant share in salvation, so the Church indirectly implied that those who died during the period went to Hell.
Also, what about Luther? I heard the MHFM people call him the biggest heretic ever.
Also, what did the term “let him be anathema” mean in all those Council of Trent documents. Is there any similarity between the “let him be anathema” and the “let him be accursed” regarding the angel that preaches another gospel? Do both of them mean “cursed, but not going to Hell?”.
I saw a Jan Hus documentary and in it, during the excommunicating they were saying: “Let God condemn u to Hell” or something similar. In one of the churches in Vatican City, there is a statue of the Virgin Mother casting Luther and Calvin (or was it Hus) out of Heaven.
I also read somewhere that Robert Sungenius explicitly says that Luther is in Hell.
So I am not too sure I agree with your statement there. It seems the Church has put certain people in Hell and some theologians clearly have no problems saying some are in Hell.

-TypesAndShadows #7] said: “Do you want it to be true that people starve to death? Regardless of your wishes, people do starve to death. If you work with an organisation that helps people avoid starving to death, does that mean you want it to be true?”
Well this is a good answer and I had something similar to this in view. Thanks a lot.

A few further questions:
-Does the Orthodox Church share our pluralistic/semi-universalist/ecumenical views on the fate of the Unevangelised?
-Can we call the Fundamentalist Fire and Brimstone people “uncharitable” and what is the name of the type sin which involves one being uncharitable like the Fundamentalists?
-When people say that Christians are “intolerant”, are they only saying this because the Fundamentalists are given Christendom a bad name? if it was Catholics rather than Fundamentalists talking to those people on the streets, would people have a better view of Christianity’s level of tolerance?

Thanks everyone!!
 
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