Potentially silly question

[Monica4316]

I’m sad to even ask this question… and I’m sorry if it sounds silly, or funny, - I think it might but I think I was tempted to doubt this evening and I can’t figure out how to argue against this thought. It’s like it was suggested to me. I was thinking about nuns (I am discerning between two vocations…) and how many Saints were ‘brides of Christ’, and - I realize this is spiritually speaking - and I thought, it’s really beautiful how they belonged to Him so completely. They gave everything to Him, their will, their possessions, everything… But then, this thought came to me out of nowhere, and it honestly felt like a temptation… the thought, or rather the suggestion, was: if they had married on earth, it would just be their husband and them… they’re the only ones their husband would ever love. But God loves all the people He created, billions of people, so a relationship with Him can’t ever be as fulfilling as with a human person, because He loves “in general” not “in specific”. It’s not as close or intimate. I rejected this thought because it goes against everything I believe about God and how He loves us. But I can’t seem to get the impression of it out of my mind… how does God love us? Does He love us individually, specifically, as if we’re the only one? or is His love lesser because it’s “divided” among so many people? was my thought a temptation from the evil one? because it really affected me and made me doubt my whole relationship with God, and how I’m discerning religious life… it made me feel like I’m deceived… but in any case I want to love God for who He is, and I’m not going to leave Him. I know He loves us because He died for us, that is proof enough.

Maybe its not very clear why this affected me in this way… see someone very close to me, once told me that I seek to be closer to Jesus because I don’t have a boyfriend. That really hurt at the time and then it made me doubt everything. However, with time, I realized that my relationship with Jesus goes way beyond anything like that, and even if I get married, I would still love Him, obviously. I don’t see Jesus in the same way as I would see a boyfriend lol. There are reasons why I want to follow Him, and I feel I know Him. But this thought I had tonight, brought me back to that previous discussion.

sorry if this sounds really silly. I think my questions are funny sometimes but that’s alright… I suppose if it’s funny it would be a humiliation for me which I really need

thank you!

 

[WesleyF]

Lol it’s a funny thought but at the same time an important question to answer.

If you were the only person that needed salvation, Jesus would still come and die on the cross for you. I think even God’s “general” love far exceeds the imperfect love any husband can offer to his wife. You know how personally Jesus loved Sr. Faustina. Why then you think about this “general” and “personal” issues? God loves each person “personally” and that personal love far exceeds spousal love. I read some portions of Sr. Faustina’s diary where he had kept her heart with him. That’s personal and intimate!

 

[Monica4316]

Lol it’s a funny thought but at the same time an important question to answer.

If you were the only person that needed salvation, Jesus would still come and die on the cross for you.

I would agree… I’ve told this to other people before too

I think even God’s “general” love far exceeds the imperfect love any husband can offer to his wife.

It seems you really got my question. Yea the whole thing had to do with comparing marriage and religious life in a way. Or marriage and our relationship with God. I always considered relationship with God to be greater than anything human. Suddenly, I felt confused about it all, and it seemed lesser… but in my reason, I know that can’t be right. Theologically, it makes no sense at all. God created us for Himself. One of the purposes of marriage is for the spouses to help each other in holiness. In Heaven, we would be united with God forever.

You know how personally Jesus loved Sr. Faustina. Why then you think about this “general” and “personal” issues? God loves each person “personally” and that personal love far exceeds spousal love. I read some portions of Sr. Faustina’s diary where he had kept her heart with him. That’s personal and intimate!

yes when I think of the Saints I get a totally different impression… like St Faustina… and St Gemma, St Margaret Mary, ETC. Not just nuns either. All Saints: men, women, religious, married, single. They all had a close relationship with God. He wasn’t distant. *I guess that was my fear…that God would be distant. * yet I don’t see how this could be true.

 

[mariafransisca3]

Monica,

I am surprised that you don’t know that Jesus loves you personally as if there is no one else on earth.

I would suggest you hear mother angelica’s talk
youtube.com/results?search_query=mother+angelica&aq=f

And download them using a program called atube catcher
download.cnet.com/aTube-Catcher/3000-2071_4-10969422.html

They are really good, I would suppose mother angelica is a to be saint.

She would make you realize that Jesus loves you as if no one else existed. Yes, that’s true, only you and him, and it isn’t a delusion.

I am sorry about what other people said to you… about not having a boyfriend, for love of Jesus. Think about the virgins, St. Gemma Galgani and St. Therese and St. Faustina also didn’t have a boyfriend. I would suppose they were all beautiful, St. Cecilia also, but later she was espoused by valerian. But kept her virginity still.

Virginity is very precious to God, and you will have a crown for that in heaven. Next to the crown of martyrdom. Virgins are held high in the eyes of God. Mother mary is a virgin and a virgin still, even when she had a husband, she lived like brother and sister with St. Joseph.

The relationship we have as humans, as husband and wife, mirrors the relationship we have with Jesus. Jesus is our spouse. We are considered as his wife. The bride of the Lamb. In the wedding feast of the Lamb, that is in heaven. Israel, if you read in Hosea, is considered as a wife to God. An unfaithful and adulterous wife. I would suggest you read the Song of Songs, it is directed to you, as the spouse of Christ. Jesus is speaking to you personally, when he said you are as beautiful as a dove. It is directed to our soul, which is in a state of Grace (I hope)

I would also suggest you reading the Spiritual Canticle of The Soul and the Bridegroom Christ, by St. John of the Cross. You are the bride of Christ, and he is your bridegroom.

basilica.org/pages/ebooks/St.%20John%20of%20the%20Cross-A%20Spiritual%20Canticle%20of%20the%20Soul.pdf

And also, the Living flames of Love, by St. John of the Cross
basilica.org/pages/ebooks/St.%20John%20of%20the%20Cross-The%20Living%20Flame%20of%20Love.pdf
Husband and wife mirrors that, because we are created in the image and likeness of God.

How is your prayerlife like? My prayer life is a personal relationship with Jesus. He loves me as I am, and I consider myself as his Spouse, and his bride, even though I am not a nun.

I figure my relationship with God, with the saints. It is not pride, sweetheart, the saints is very humble. If we imitate them, including their personal relationship with Jesus, how they prayed, etc, we become more humble still.

The saints are the most humble of peoples, except for Jesus and Mary, because Jesus is humble, and we are called to be like him

I hope this helps

I will pray for you all the days of my life until the day of my death because I’d like to see you in heaven.

I don’t know if I’d leave this forum or not, but I think I will. I would spend more time in prayer and in loving Jesus

I have written an article about personal relationship with Jesus in prayer, I think this might be helpful for you

prayerguidance.blogspot.com

 

[Mimi20]

I’m sad to even ask this question…

Don’t feel sad. :console:We all have our occasional questions and doubts that cross our mind. This scripture quote was the first thing that came to mind upon reading your post. I hope it offers you comfort. (even I should stick it somewhere for myself as a reminder…)

Jeremiah 1:5
5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

May God bless you in your discernment of religious life. :nun2:

 

[Monica4316]

Monica,

I am surprised that you don’t know that Jesus loves you personally as if there is no one else on earth.

that is what I’ve always believed, and I do believe it now too But tonight I got this thought that confused me, it felt like a temptation to make me doubt. I wanted to ask others…how I could resolve this in my mind. It made me very sad because if Jesus were distant, that would be so hard to deal with. I always believed I could be close to Him and then I got this fear of being deluded. It hasn’t changed what I believe in my reason & will though.

I would suggest you hear mother angelica’s talk
youtube.com/results?search_query=mother+angelica&aq=f

Mother Angelica… thanks, I’ll take a look! =)

And download them using a program called atube catcher
download.cnet.com/aTube-Catcher/3000-2071_4-10969422.html

They are really good, I would suppose mother angelica is a to be saint.

I really like her too =)

She would make you realize that Jesus loves you as if no one else existed. Yes, that’s true, only you and him, and it isn’t a delusion.

I am sorry about what other people said to you… about not having a boyfriend, for love of Jesus. Think about the virgins, St. Gemma Galgani and St. Therese and St. Faustina also didn’t have a boyfriend. I would suppose they were all beautiful, St. Cecilia also, but later she was espoused by valerian. But kept her virginity still.

yes and St Clare and St Philomena, there are so many Saints like that I’m glad it’s not a delusion…

Virginity is very precious to God, and you will have a crown for that in heaven. Next to the crown of martyrdom. Virgins are held high in the eyes of God. Mother mary is a virgin and a virgin still, even when she had a husband, she lived like brother and sister with St. Joseph.

The relationship we have as humans, as husband and wife, mirrors the relationship we have with Jesus. Jesus is our spouse. We are considered as his wife. The bride of the Lamb. In the wedding feast of the Lamb, that is in heaven. Israel, if you read in Hosea, is considered as a wife to God. An unfaithful and adulterous wife. I would suggest you read the Song of Songs, it is directed to you, as the spouse of Christ. Jesus is speaking to you personally, when he said you are as beautiful as a dove. It is directed to our soul, which is in a state of Grace (I hope)

I would also suggest you reading the Spiritual Canticle of The Soul and the Bridegroom Christ, by St. John of the Cross. You are the bride of Christ, and he is your bridegroom.

basilica.org/pages/ebooks/St.%20John%20of%20the%20Cross-A%20Spiritual%20Canticle%20of%20the%20Soul.pdf

And also, the Living flames of Love, by St. John of the Cross
basilica.org/pages/ebooks/St.%20John%20of%20the%20Cross-The%20Living%20Flame%20of%20Love.pdf
Husband and wife mirrors that, because we are created in the image and likeness of God.

thanks! that is encouraging. I would only get a boyfriend if I discern that God wants me to marry. Otherwise I wouldn’t. There’s soo much pressure from the world sometimes, and from people. And often people are well intentioned and want the best for me, want me to be happy. But I wouldn’t say any person, or even the best husband or boyfriend in the world, would love me as Jesus does, or give me the joy He can give, especially in the Eucharist. St Augustine says… we can only find peace in God, our hearts were made for Him, and nothing in the world can fill them.

How is your prayerlife like? My prayer life is a personal relationship with Jesus. He loves me as I am, and I consider myself as his Spouse, and his bride, even though I am not a nun.

I tried answering this question several times, and each time I erased it because I wondered if it came from pride or vanity… I am very sinful, very unworthy to have Him as my Spouse. I would be very blessed if that were the case. I love Jesus… He is everything to me. He rescued me from not only my sins, in Confession, but the darkness I went through prior to my conversion. If He were distant, like I was afraid of, that would break my heart. But I sin too much and I’m always afraid I wont persevere. I hope Jesus and Mary would help me to persevere. I love Mary too, she has been so good to me, and she has brought me closer to her Son.

I figure my relationship with God, with the saints. It is not pride, sweetheart, the saints is very humble. If we imitate them, including their personal relationship with Jesus, how they prayed, etc, we become more humble still.

I see what you mean

The saints are the most humble of peoples, except for Jesus and Mary, because Jesus is humble, and we are called to be like him

I hope this helps

I will pray for you all the days of my life until the day of my death because I’d like to see you in heaven.

I don’t know if I’d leave this forum or not, but I think I will. I would spend more time in prayer and in loving Jesus

I have written an article about personal relationship with Jesus in prayer, I think this might be helpful for you

prayerguidance.blogspot.com

Thank you :hug1: you are a very sweet person. Thanks for praying for me. I will pray for you also. God bless!

 

[Monica4316]

Don’t feel sad. :console:We all have our occasional questions and doubts that cross our mind. This scripture quote was the first thing that came to mind upon reading your post. I hope it offers you comfort. (even I should stick it somewhere for myself as a reminder…)

Jeremiah 1:5
5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

May God bless you in your discernment of religious life. :nun2:

Thank you Mimi20! :hug1:
I like that quote… I once thought what it must have been like when God created us… He creates each person with so much love, and knows them completely… He truly knows us! Thanks, that helps! God bless!

 

[Khalid]

God is infinite. Infinity divided by 7 billion is still infinity. The human is finite.

Human love, when divided, becomes less, as it is finite (although whether human love becomes less because of some innate characteristic of love, or because it is constrained in time - i.e. if there was double the time, could one person love two people as fully as he could love one given the normal amount of time? - is arguable)

God’s love is not, and can not, be divided or reduced, as it is infinite, both in itself and in time, as it is outside of time. Human attributes can not be attributed to God because of this: Man is finite, whereas God is boundless and without measure - infinite.

Because God is infinite, He loves each and every soul as perfectly and completely as He loves any single soul, even if there was only a single soul. That is to say, God loves you as if you were the only soul that ever existed.

…and if such a logical presentation will not convince you, I do not know what will

 

[Monica4316]

God is infinite. Infinity divided by 7 billion is still infinity. The human is finite.

Human love, when divided, becomes less, as it is finite (although whether human love becomes less because of some innate characteristic of love, or because it is constrained in time - i.e. if there was double the time, could one person love two people as fully as he could love one given the normal amount of time? - is arguable)

God’s love is not, and can not, be divided or reduced, as it is infinite, both in itself and in time, as it is outside of time. Human attributes can not be attributed to God because of this: Man is finite, whereas God is boundless and without measure - infinite.

Because God is infinite, He loves each and every soul as perfectly and completely as He loves any single soul, even if there was only a single soul. That is to say, God loves you as if you were the only soul that ever existed.

…and if such a logical presentation will not convince you, I do not know what will

I never saw it that way!! that is very cool… thanks for the explanation and yes I do agree

God bless!

 

[LittleDeb]

I tried answering this question several times, and each time I erased it because I wondered if it came from pride or vanity… I am very sinful, very unworthy to have Him as my Spouse. I would be very blessed if that were the case. I love Jesus… He is everything to me. He rescued me from not only my sins, in Confession, but the darkness I went through prior to my conversion. If He were distant, like I was afraid of, that would break my heart. But I sin too much and I’m always afraid I wont persevere. I hope Jesus and Mary would help me to persevere. I love Mary too, she has been so good to me, and she has brought me closer to her Son.

You are not unworthy to have Jesus as your spouse! I was advised by a wise and faithful nun to stop trying to hold earthly men to the role only Jesus fills. I was called to marriage, I knew that, but my expectations of a husband were something no one could fill.

This wise nun prayed for me to “really fall deeply in love with Jesus as your spouse first.” Then Jesus would there to fill all the missing holes from my temporal spouse. It was amazing what joy that brought me! Jesus is the perfect bridegroom. When I more fully relied on Jesus as my spouse, I felt let down less often from my own and other people’s sinfulness. When my husband finally entered the picture, I was more prepared to love him as his fallible human self. That made me, and my fallible human self, more loveable to him too.

*Everyone *is called to the marriage of Christ and the Church. The priesthood and celibate religious fore-go earthly marriage to more fully participate in the marriage of heaven.

 

[Monica4316]

You are not unworthy to have Jesus as your spouse! I was advised by a wise and faithful nun to stop trying to hold earthly men to the role only Jesus fills. I was called to marriage, I knew that, but my expectations of a husband were something no one could fill.

This wise nun prayed for me to “really fall deeply in love with Jesus as your spouse first.” Then Jesus would there to fill all the missing holes from my temporal spouse. It was amazing what joy that brought me! Jesus is the perfect bridegroom. When I more fully relied on Jesus as my spouse, I felt let down less often from my own and other people’s sinfulness. When my husband finally entered the picture, I was more prepared to love him as his fallible human self. That made me, and my fallible human self, more loveable to him too.

*Everyone *is called to the marriage of Christ and the Church. The priesthood and celibate religious fore-go earthly marriage to more fully participate in the marriage of heaven.

thank you for this! that really helps… I think that’s very true! I think I was always looking for a person who would love me truly unconditionally, and I did seek God’s love in the world in a way… I only truly found it in Him though, and yes it does help to not have these expectations from others. It is not a realistic expectation anyway. What that we can do as people is - show God’s love to each other. And while that is very important, - He IS love

I find that sometimes there’s a lot of misunderstanding regarding what I was trying to say, and I’m very glad that people have been so understanding in this thread sometimes people do think that I just want to be close to Jesus just because I’m single and “want a husband”. But that makes me very sad because I don’t think it’s true, and it makes my whole relationship with God sound like a delusion, and it also places natural love above the supernatural. I know why I want to be close to Jesus and it’s because of Him, not because of someone else.

God bless

 

[LittleDeb]

thank you for this!

I know why I want to be close to Jesus and it’s because of Him, not because of someone else.

God bless

You are most welcome! That is a beautiful way to look at it!!

 

[Monica4316]

silly question # 261537438 from Monica

Okay I think I feel much better about this now there’s a part of it that is still bothering me however… so I don’t believe that God is distant from us or that our relationship with Him is something cold or impersonal. But in our meditations, etc, how should we look at Christ? For example, if we think about Him, is it alright to imagine being close to Him, like being embraced my Him, etc.? or is that not based on truth and a delusion? I often go through confusion in my faith, or sometimes, feeling far from Him, - so in the times when He does grant me some consolation, (no doubt because of my weakness and as an encouragement ) I worry if I still see Him in the right way. I’m *not *talking about anything impure or causing impure thoughts or feelings. That’s not what I mean. …does it even make sense what I mean? I’m having trouble explaining. Is it alright to imagine Him as being very loving, can we ever “over do” that and forget the respect we should give to Him as God? Some people talk about God like He can’t really be approached, etc… is it okay to sometimes emphasize the more human aspects of Jesus? when does it become wrong or incorrect?

It’s just that I tend to read books about or by the Saints who were mystics like St Faustina, Sr Josefa Menendez, St Margaret Mary, St Gemma Galgani, etc, - and when they saw Jesus they would describe how He looked at them with so much love, and sometimes I wonder, if we were to see Jesus, - what would it be like? I love humility and reverence for God and I think we’d probably fall down. But in the lives of these Saints, even when they felt a lot of contrition for their sins, and were so humble, Jesus was still so kind. Would we be able to talk to Him about everything on our hearts, and tell Him how much we love Him, or give Him a hug, or kiss His hands, feet, etc, like the sinful woman with the perfume? the reason I’m asking is because sometimes people talk about how we always need to be reserved, respectful, - and I think that’s true for the Mass, because it’s the Sacrifice, but Communion, I wouldn’t describe that as “reserved”…that is so intimate.

Just wanted to know.

 

[Khalid]

I am not a Priest, or Deacon, but it seems to be acceptable within bounds. I pray and meditate on very abstract, metaphysical, nearly-theoretical principles; this seems as much distanced from the vicarious-third-person-observer that one is ideally supposed to be while praying the Mysteries of the Rosary. However, such a question isn’t covered in the CCC.

Without being relativistic: if I meditate on the wholly abstract, and it is acceptable, what is wrong with meditating on the concrete, as long as it is not meditating on sinfulness? Invoking the theory of Ideal Forms, meditating on the abstract is greater, as it is closer to what is in heaven, where the concrete is just a reflection of that abstraction: but, it seems to me, that your prayer is full acceptable, and perfect in the eyes of God, if it is offered through the eternal sacrifice of His Son, Our King Jesus Christ, and if the Holy Spirit so moves you to pray in such a manner.

Of course, I believe that in the RC church as well as the EO church, that the ideal (or highest) form of prayer and meditation is one that involves or invokes no forms or theories or thought or any abstract or concept elements (being) whatsoever, but only the lack thereof (nothingness) “to hear God pronounce His eternal Word” in the void that is left.

Of course, this is an Orthodox who isn’t even officially converted to Catholicism yet speaking, so take what I say with a grain of salt (or with a cleric’s confirmation).

 

[WesleyF]

But in our meditations, etc, how should we look at Christ? For example, if we think about Him, is it alright to imagine being close to Him, like being embraced my Him, etc.?

Oh, tell me about it. Sometimes I envy women that they can relate to Christ naturally as a “lover” whereas we men cannot do that without imagining ourselves to be like women.

Is it alright to imagine Him as being very loving, can we ever “over do” that and forget the respect we should give to Him as God? Some people talk about God like He can’t really be approached, etc… is it okay to sometimes emphasize the more human aspects of Jesus? when does it become wrong or incorrect?

I don’t think we can ever “over do” that. God wants us to approach him like children. Children don’t ever think of respect or anything like that. They just approach their father and jump into his hands without thinking.

Would we be able to talk to Him about everything on our hearts, and tell Him how much we love Him, or give Him a hug, or kiss His hands, feet, etc, like the sinful woman with the perfume?

Definitely.

the reason I’m asking is because sometimes people talk about how we always need to be reserved, respectful, - and I think that’s true for the Mass, because it’s the Sacrifice, but Communion, I wouldn’t describe that as “reserved”…that is so intimate.

Love is a level above respect. When you love someone, respect comes automatically.

 

[Khalid]

Love is a level above respect. When you love someone, respect comes automatically.

That almost has the ring of an aphorism.

 

[Monica4316]

Thanks for the replies my intention is never to disrespect Jesus… I just hope I’m not disrespecting Him in any way. But I wouldn’t say the woman with the perfume jar disrespected Him…or the Saints… I’d like to learn more about what the Saints thought on all this…

I often pray without imagining anything, I just pray, like before the Blessed Sacrament. It depends.

God bless