Poverty and it's answers

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Glen,

I hope we can agree that the ultimate goal of any anti-poverty program should be to become redundant. By that I mean that the goal should be for the participants in that program to become independent of the requirement for assistance: that they gain the ability to produce sufficient goods and/or services so that they can provide for themselves and their families. (Of course, if that is the case, then the workers who administer such a program will eventually become largely redundant).

I would hope that we can agree that such a program would support and build up the construct of the nuclear family (using a definition that agrees with the teachings of the Church) and would support societal mores that would encourage that kind of construct.

I would hope that we can agree that such a program would ensure that the material and spiritual needs of those who are unable to work, through no fault of their own, would be provided. Specifically, I am talking about the elderly and the (mentally or physically) disabled.

We may not agree on the best way to accomplish these goals, but I would hope we can agree that these would be laudable goals.

So before I waste a bunch of bandwidth, can you agree with me that those are the types of goals you’d like to see?

I figure if we can agree the ends, we have a basis for discussion of means. If we can’t agree on ends, then any discussion on means is sort of pointless, as we’re not even trying to get to the same place in the end.
 
LisaA said:
Once again, people who have serious physical or mental problems are not the issue. Do you think the majority of people in this country using social services are seriously physically or mentally disabled? Aside from that many people with physical impairments or those who are mentally challenged seek and find work.
Lisa
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Not where I live. There is a NON make believe 9 % unemployment rate.
 
LindaCamp said:
Not where I live. There is a NON make believe 9 % unemployment rate.
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Hi, totally confused about the above response. 9% plus or minus is the national rate and has been for two years. Our state has had a higher rate (11%) and some such as the midwestern states have a lower rate. No ‘make believe’ about any of the statistics. They are real and certainly more real to those unemployed.

My point is that mentally or physically challenged folks are not the majority of unemployed or below the poverty level Americans. To claim that people who are not working CANNOT work is false. Certainly this economy has been the worst I remember and I’m not young. So opportunities do not abound. However unemployment like many statistics varies greatly by education, skills, AND geography. College educated have an unemployment rate of 4%. High school dropouts are in double digits. Again, not related to mental or physical disabilities. There are other factors in unemployment and poverty. Many can be addressed or changed.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
To claim that people who are not working CANNOT work is false.

Lisa
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Really?
There are MANY people who are looking for work who can NOT find work. I just read on yahoo news about a woman who has a management background and she said all she wanted for christmas was an INTERVIEW.

Corporations have sent a TON of jobs overseas. Many have also laid off employees. Not everyone who is out of work is lazy. Many, many can NOT FIND JOBS.
 
LindaCamp said:
Really?
There are MANY people who are looking for work who can NOT find work. I just read on yahoo news about a woman who has a management background and she said all she wanted for christmas was an INTERVIEW.

Corporations have sent a TON of jobs overseas. Many have also laid off employees. Not everyone who is out of work is lazy. Many, many can NOT FIND JOBS.
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Linda you are totally misreading what has been posted here. The issue is poverty not unemployment although of course the two are related. The focus has been on our anti poverty programs fostering a culture of dependence that has generations looking to the government to support them and their children. The causes of poverty (unformed families, broken families, poor education particularly in certain areas and in some cases a catastrophic accident or illness) are more micro do not coincide with the causes of unemployment which are more macro.

I think you are also confusing two issues; whether an unemployed person is unemployed because he or she is physically or mentally incapable of work (the minority) or if there are other reasons. You are correct, job searching in this economy is daunting. However you can’t point to anecdotal evidence (one woman interviewed on Yahoo) to support your theory that there are no jobs, anywhere for anyone. Unemployment varies by location, education, ability, work ethic, and sadly things that people cannot control such as age, physical impairments etc. Again, no one is arguing that job searching is tough in this economy. It is. And it’s harder for some than others. I agree. Still not related to the causes of poverty or the potential solutions.
Lisa
 
I disagree. Not everyone can find a job. It isnt just “one lady on yahoo”
the country is full of unemployed people.
 
Rules for avoiding poverty:
  • Graduate high school
  • Get married before you have children
  • If you get married, stay married
  • Get a job, any job. A minimum wage job is a stepping stone
  • Avoid engaging in criminal behavior
westernhero.blogspot.com/2009/08/walter-e-williams-rules-to-avoid.html

Rules for avoiding poverty:

e-gracenotes.org/article.php?id=2261

Marriage shows the way out of poverty:

heritage.org/research/commentary/2010/10/marriage-shows-the-way-out-of-poverty

heritage.org/research/commentary/2010/10/marriage-an-important-key-to-avoiding-poverty

Three simple rules for avoiding poverty:

(1) finish high school,
(2) produce no child before marrying, and
(3) produce no child before age 20.

If a person adheres to those three simple edicts, there is a 92% chance he will not be poor.

wisecounty.com/themuse/Column31.htm
 
Monte_RCMS said:
Rules for avoiding poverty:
  • Graduate high school
  • Get married before you have children
  • If you get married, stay married
  • Get a job, any job. A minimum wage job is a stepping stone
  • Avoid engaging in criminal behavior
westernhero.blogspot.com/2009/08/walter-e-williams-rules-to-avoid.html

Rules for avoiding poverty:

e-gracenotes.org/article.php?id=2261

Yes indeed. But no matter how many times the statistics are pointed out, the Social Industrial Complex COMPLETELY ignores them, setting up yet another program that is doomed to fail.

Not to sound too 60s but we have to speak the TRUTH. When I was in high school an unwed mother was not celebrated, was encouraged to give up her baby for adoption and let him or her have a decent life. That unwed parentage (BOTH males and females) is not stigmatized but instead is supported with dopey shows like “Teen Mom” and various programs with good intentions but minimal results, means we’re going to continue to have it.

As one pundit pointed out, it’s perfectly acceptable to discourage drug, alchohol and cigarette use but how many tweens and teens have been shown that unwed teen or even young adult parenthood is a fast road to no where? They just aren’t told the truth and as a result we continue to have more and more, generation after generation of these single parent homes. It’s a vicious circle and until someone will get real and focus on MARRIAGE as a great poverty prevention plan, we’re not going to see improvement in the poverty levels.

BTW they haven’t been reduced by more than a percent or two since Lyndon Johnson started his domestic war.

Lisa A
Marriage shows the way out of poverty:

heritage.org/research/commentary/2010/10/marriage-shows-the-way-out-of-poverty

heritage.org/research/commentary/2010/10/marriage-an-important-key-to-avoiding-poverty

Three simple rules for avoiding poverty:

(1) finish high school,
(2) produce no child before marrying, and
(3) produce no child before age 20.

If a person adheres to those three simple edicts, there is a 92% chance he will not be poor.

wisecounty.com/themuse/Column31.htm
Click to expand...
 
scottmac said:
I disagree. Not everyone can find a job. It isnt just “one lady on yahoo”
the country is full of unemployed people.
Click to expand...
WalMart and McDonalds are always hiring. People do not want to work those jobs.

My highly skilled, college educated husband is now working at WalMart. It is minimum wage, but, it is a job.
 
LindaCamp said:
Really?
There are MANY people who are looking for work who can NOT find work. I just read on yahoo news about a woman who has a management background and she said all she wanted for christmas was an INTERVIEW.

Corporations have sent a TON of jobs overseas. Many have also laid off employees. Not everyone who is out of work is lazy. Many, many can NOT FIND JOBS.
Click to expand...
A relevant article came in yesterday:

pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/marcellus_shale_industry_bring.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

… if you’ve been visiting here for any length of time, you would know how many times I posted about how Marcellus was going to create thousands of jobs and improve the economies of many or our municipalities and the state in general. I was right, of course, but those opinions weren’t my own. I attended symposiums that described what was going to happen and learned how $7 trillion in gas deposits would have an incredible economic impact on that region. The tree-hugging liberals kept saying that the jobs were for ‘out-of-state’ people, not Pennsylvanians, and they were proven wrong.

And many states are experiencing the same sort of job opportunities and job growth.

The EPA and the DEP’s and various environmental groups are fighting it tooth and nail.
 
Monte_RCMS said:
A relevant article came in yesterday:

pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/marcellus_shale_industry_bring.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

… if you’ve been visiting here for any length of time, you would know how many times I posted about how Marcellus was going to create thousands of jobs and improve the economies of many or our municipalities and the state in general. I was right, of course, but those opinions weren’t my own. I attended symposiums that described what was going to happen and learned how $7 trillion in gas deposits would have an incredible economic impact on that region. The tree-hugging liberals kept saying that the jobs were for ‘out-of-state’ people, not Pennsylvanians, and they were proven wrong.

And many states are experiencing the same sort of job opportunities and job growth.

The EPA and the DEP’s and various environmental groups are fighting it tooth and nail.
Click to expand...
Another potential job bonanza is the Keystone Pipeline. Once again the failed “green agenda” is in the way of actual jobs, not make up jobs funded by tax dollars. Democrats and Obama are threatening not to pass the legislation pushing the Keystone Pipeline or alternatively vetoing it.

Tell me Obama is serious about jobs when he fights tooth and nail to save slugs and rats but doesn’t want the American people working at high paying, shovel ready jobs? The disingenuousness of this administration is a disgrace. There is no good reason to block this project…other than pandering to the environmentasts. Then he gets up and lies about how he’s so concerned about unemployment. How does this man sleep at night? He seems determined to destroy everything in his path…unborn babies, the healthcare system, the banking system, energy production. 2013 can’t come soon enough.

Lisa A
 
LisaA said:
Another potential job bonanza is the Keystone Pipeline. Once again the failed “green agenda” is in the way of actual jobs, not make up jobs funded by tax dollars. Democrats and Obama are threatening not to pass the legislation pushing the Keystone Pipeline or alternatively vetoing it.

Tell me Obama is serious about jobs when he fights tooth and nail to save slugs and rats but doesn’t want the American people working at high paying, shovel ready jobs? The disingenuousness of this administration is a disgrace. There is no good reason to block this project…other than pandering to the environmentasts. Then he gets up and lies about how he’s so concerned about unemployment. I truly wonder how that man sleeps at night.

Lisa A
Click to expand...
 
The Swan,

I have not read all the responses and thus I may repeat what has been said.

You seem to have come to your position in life THROUGH NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN. Therefore you have every right to assistance form a variety of sources. You need not apologize, just state yor needs and ask others how you can get connected to the right sources fo assistance.

I would recommend you google “help for the -------” homeless, unemployed, disabled, poor, etc. You should find a multitude of sources in your area.

And this is not a platitude but very real: Continue to pray constantly for God’s help. Offer up your plight as your personal effort to share in His Passion. Ask God for the Help you need. Ask also the Saints, especially the Holy Mother of God to intercede for you. Attend Mass every Sunday.
 
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