Poverty in America

[Michaeljc4]

I found this story difficult to read, and I thought I’d share it because it speaks directly to me–and perhaps to others–about what it means to be a Christian and a Catholic.


The Faces of Poverty

I have to tell you, friends, I understand that we can (and do) differ about how best to help the poor in our country, but I there needs to be a greater sense of urgency among the faithful in our churches with regard to this issue. I’m 42 years old and I’ve never seen anything like what’s happening out there in America…and it’s not getting any better. People all over are in desperate need of help, and it is our job to help them. Not judge. Not decide who does and who doesn’t need help. Not turn our eyes away because it’s easier to ignore the pain and the mess and the hard questions. Just help.

I wonder if people would be willing to share what’s going on in their parishes with regard to aid and assistance to the poor. Have you seen an increase in giving, in volunteering, in awareness of what’s happening to tens of millions of our countrymen? Do your parish priests talk about it (mine don’t)? Do you think it’s a topic lay people should be asking our priests to address? Are you praying for the poor?

So much pain and sorrow. What a terrible and sad time for America.

 

[Rascalking]

I agree that there is desprete poverty in America and we should do what we can to stop it.

Having said that, I’d rather be poor in America than in any other country in the world. One of my dearest friends is from India. What she has shown me is heartbreaking-really changed my view on what we have in the states.

 

[Michaeljc4]

You are absolutely correct: we are blessed, and compared to other nations, our poverty is very, very mild. Thank God! With that said, we are the wealthiest nation on earth,and should be a much better place to live than an undeveloped country like India. We have such incredible resources; it seems unimaginable that so many people are struggling so hard to get by.

 

[davidmlamb]

I found this story difficult to read, and I thought I’d share it because it speaks directly to me–and perhaps to others–about what it means to be a Christian and a Catholic.


The Faces of Poverty

I have to tell you, friends, I understand that we can (and do) differ about how best to help the poor in our country, but I there needs to be a greater sense of urgency among the faithful in our churches with regard to this issue. I’m 42 years old and I’ve never seen anything like what’s happening out there in America…and it’s not getting any better. People all over are in desperate need of help, and it is our job to help them. Not judge. Not decide who does and who doesn’t need help. Not turn our eyes away because it’s easier to ignore the pain and the mess and the hard questions. Just help.

I wonder if people would be willing to share what’s going on in their parishes with regard to aid and assistance to the poor. Have you seen an increase in giving, in volunteering, in awareness of what’s happening to tens of millions of our countrymen? Do your parish priests talk about it (mine don’t)? Do you think it’s a topic lay people should be asking our priests to address? Are you praying for the poor?

So much pain and sorrow. What a terrible and sad time for America.

It is truly tragic. I just came off a thread that closed where (CAN YOU BE BOTH A LIBERAL AND A CATHOLIC) I and others speak on the social justice teachings of the Church and tragically we were vigorously opposed by Catholics who have exchanged the social doctrines of the Church for right wing conservatism which I believe is an apostasy and a cancer in the Church. These people have characterized the poor working class and those who in recent years met with tragic economic down fall as being their own fault and sticking America with the bill. They are called lazy, socialist, communist, freeloaders, and burdens to society who should be stripped of their rights to vote (to assure Democrats won’t get elected). They see any kind of public social assistance as stealing their money. And this is coming from Catholics! I kid you not folks, we are living in times of selfishness, individualism, materialism, where neighbor is despised and the disadvantages are hated. They even go as far as alluding to euthanizing them by neglect when they are sick because they feel they have no social obligations to our society. God help us repent!

Pax Christi.
David

 

[St_Francis]

David,
I think that one of the things liberals are going to learn pretty darn fast is that the liberals are wrong.

And the thing that conservatives will have to learn is that the consefvatives are wrong.

The liberals have a concern for the poor, that is good. The conservitves understand how money works, that is good.

But when liberals insist that we act in a way that destroys the source of the money that poor people need, and when conservatives insist that we ignore all considerations other than profit, society is *destroyed, *and there is nothing left for anyone.

If we don’t stop vilifying each other, and both sides do it, and start listening to each other, the liberals because they know what the problems are, and the conservatives know how to make things work. Not entirely, of course. The reality is that both sides need a huge dose of Catholic teaching. The conservatives need to learn that the Almighty is not the dollar, and the liberals need to learn that there is no waving of the wand to make their impossible dreams come true, and that as long as you comoare reality witha vision of utter perfection, you will be discontented and envious.

If we continue in this divided way, we will only be digging the grave deeper. What we need to learnnis that subsidiarity applies in business as well as in charity: if you have a business that is so big that no one really controls it, that is a violation of subsidiarity just as much as if you have a series of federal bureaucracies which help the poor with a rate of 77% adminstrative costs.

Many secular liberals are “progressives,” a philosophy which comes out of the anti-Catholic Enlightenment which believes in the perfectability of man and society through his own efforts and with no regard for God.

Many secular conservatives have a philosophy based on the anti-Catholic Calvinism, which teaches that if you are in good with God, you will be showered with material goods, and poverty is a sign that you are not right with God.

Neither side pays attention to the social teachings they don’t like. The liberals think they can get rid of suffering if they can only get the rich to unload some of their wealth. The conservatives ignore that profit cannot be the sole basis for their decisions.

And they both ignore what Pope Leo XIII called for in Rerum Novarum, which is that we all need to work together instead of dividing oirselves and acting as if the other is the enemy.

 

[Michaeljc4]

St. Francis: well said. there is nothing wrong with success or wealth in and of themselves. Remember, Jesus said that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. When capitalism is severed from values and morality, it destroys lives, the environment, and the larger society. Likewise, when people become severed from values and morality, they do not care for their children, their parents, their neighbors, or their community.

It all comes down to values, in my opinion. The most strident pro-abortion progressive is no different than the greediest, self-serving money lover in my eyes. Liberals and conservatives need a serious dose of humility and compassion…as well as reality.

 

[Michaeljc4]

Archbishop Dolan Asks Clergy to Talk About Unemployment and Poverty

The Archbishop must have read my post!

 

[JimG]

My own fear is that what seems to be a national prosperity, at least greater than other nations, may simply turn out to be illusory. The nation is currently $14 trillion in debt, and has much more than that in unfunded liabilities. The situation is unsustainable. We may be closer to becoming Greece or Italy than we imagine. The poor are not made richer by a bankrupt nation.

 

[davidmlamb]

David,
I think that one of the things liberals are going to learn pretty darn fast is that the liberals are wrong.

And the thing that conservatives will have to learn is that the consefvatives are wrong.

The liberals have a concern for the poor, that is good. The conservitves understand how money works, that is good.

But I on the other hand am never wrong!

But when liberals insist that we act in a way that destroys the source of the money that poor people need, and when conservatives insist that we ignore all considerations other than profit, society is *destroyed, *and there is nothing left for anyone.

Neither side pays attention to the social teachings they don’t like. The liberals think they can get rid of suffering if they can only get the rich to unload some of their wealth. The conservatives ignore that profit cannot be the sole basis for their decisions.

And they both ignore what Pope Leo XIII called for in Rerum Novarum, which is that we all need to work together instead of dividing oirselves and acting as if the other is the enemy.

Let me start off saying that I am neither conservative or liberal, I am Catholic and I am very well versed in the Social Justice teachings of the Church which include, the Catechism of the Catholic Church; CCC 2401-2436; 1897-1912, 2288. The Papal Social Justice Encyclicals and Apostolic letters; RERUM NOVARUM by Pope Leo XIII, QUADRAGESIMO ANNO by Pope Pius XI, Mater et Magistra and Pacem in Terris by Pope John XXIII, Populorum Progressio and OCTOGESIMA ADVENIENS by Pope Paul VI, Laborem Exercens, Sollicitudo Rei Socialis, Centesimus Annus, by Pope John Paul II, and CARITAS IN VERITATE by Pope Benedict XVI .

The social teachings of the Church tells us that governments were instituted by God to support the common good and this includes publicly paid safety nets and even publicly paid health care. The Church condemns socialism and it also condemns extreme capitalism (a leissez faire capitalism) CCC 2425. Pope Paul VI and Pius XI called this type of capitalism “unbriddled liberalism” and a “certain type of tyranny which could never be condemned enough.”

The government is not the enemy of the Church but an institution created by God to secure the natural rights of human beings and to promote law and order as well as peace and solidarity among men and to provide for the needs of society. The Church works in cooperation with governments to aid in the spiritual and physical needs of a society.

Pax Christi,
David

 

[JimG]

But I on the other hand am never wrong!

Let me start off saying that I am neither conservative or liberal, I am Catholic and I am very well versed in the Social Justice teachings of the Church which include, the Catechism of the Catholic Church; CCC 2401-2436; 1897-1912, 2288. The Papal Social Justice Encyclicals and Apostolic letters; RERUM NOVARUM by Pope Leo XIII, QUADRAGESIMO ANNO by Pope Pius XI, Mater et Magistra and Pacem in Terris by Pope John XXIII, Populorum Progressio and OCTOGESIMA ADVENIENS by Pope Paul VI, Laborem Exercens, Sollicitudo Rei Socialis, Centesimus Annus, by Pope John Paul II, and CARITAS IN VERITATE by Pope Benedict XVI .

The social teachings of the Church tells us that governments were instituted by God to support the common good and this includes publicly paid safety nets and even publicly paid health care. The Church condemns socialism and it also condemns extreme capitalism (a leissez faire capitalism) CCC 2425. Pope Paul VI and Pius XI called this type of capitalism “unbriddled liberalism” and a “certain type of tyranny which could never be condemned enough.”

The government is not the enemy of the Church but an institution created by God to secure the natural rights of human beings and to promote law and order as well as peace and solidarity among men and to provide for the needs of society. The Church works in cooperation with governments to aid in the spiritual and physical needs of a society.

Pax Christi,
David

The question is, does the Church favor national bankruptcy? Would the Church, for example, urge the government of Greece to forgo austerity measures so that it can provide more social benefits while sinking deeper into national debt?

 

[davidmlamb]

The question is, does the Church favor national bankruptcy? Would the Church, for example, urge the government of Greece to forgo austerity measures so that it can provide more social benefits while sinking deeper into national debt?

I don’t know the answer to that off the top of my head I would have to research the issue. The first place would be the position of the Greek Orthodox Church and the archdiocese of Greece on the matter. The second point is that in anceint ISRAEL the Law of Moses required all debts to be cancelled every 7 years

David

o

o

o

 

[JimG]

I don’t know the answer to that off the top of my head I would have to research the issue. The first place would be the position of the Greek Orthodox Church and the archdiocese of Greece on the matter. The second point is that in anceint ISRAEL the Law of Moses required all debts to be cancelled every 7 years

David

Thanks for the reply, although it was actually just a rhetorical question. However, canceling debts every 7 years might work for the U.S., if not for our creditors. Anybody holding Series EE savings bonds, or any other government bond, would find them suddenly worthless after 7 years.

I suppose the next question would be whether it would be ethical to do that to creditors. When my sister’s husband died, we discovered a large number of U.S. Savings Bonds which had long since quit drawing interest, yet they were still worth the maximum value they had reached. She found those to be a lifesaver. I would have been disappointed had they been worth zero.

 

[Michaeljc4]

Jim G: You are spot-on. The answer to the suffering of the poor cannot come solely from government. We simply can’t afford to keep writing people checks, even with the best of intentions. As the President said the other day (although in a slightly different context), “It’s just math.”

My question is, how are we as Catholics responding to this crisis of poverty, joblessness, homelessness, and despair? Do we as Catholics feel a sense of urgency around this issue? If not…why not?

There are a great many people on these forums (and this is not directed at you, Jim) whose identities as conservatives, or Republicans, is much stronger than their identities as Catholics. The question of* how *we should help those in need is one that people of good will can differ on. The question of should we be helping is not open for debate. Some of the things being said about the poor on these forums are very disturbing.

 

[centurionguard]

Jim G: You are spot-on. The answer to the suffering of the poor cannot come solely from government. We simply can’t afford to keep writing people checks, even with the best of intentions. As the President said the other day (although in a slightly different context), “It’s just math.”

My question is, how are we as Catholics responding to this crisis of poverty, joblessness, homelessness, and despair? Do we as Catholics feel a sense of urgency around this issue? If not…why not?

There are a great many people on these forums (and this is not directed at you, Jim) whose identities as conservatives, or Republicans, is much stronger than their identities as Catholics. The question of* how *we should help those in need is one that people of good will can differ on. The question of should we be helping is not open for debate. Some of the things being said about the poor on these forums are very disturbing.

Some of the things being said about the poor on these forums are very disturbing.

That’s because typically many who are better off categorically have a bad habit of pigeonholing all poor people under the same roof. And no one wants to hear how each and every poor person got there. And never mind only those who are on the welfare lines. How about those too who live off the grid in the streets and sleeping amongst the rats with their only blanket a piece of garbage cardboard?

I’m used to being called the lowest of the low, it doesn’t fizz me one iota. But then you rarely hear of any concerned person asking how I got there and even within the Church itself. I’m not deliberately looking to be put in any persons limelight. But I admit I’ve seen other people in the streets who live in far worse conditions than I am. So I have that much to be genuinely thankful to God for. At least God has spared my dignity to the degree I don’t have go out and be a beggar or resort to drunkenness.

People who live in the lowest of the low (nobodies) can be some of the most beautiful people to talk to for those looking for a vocation in serving the poor.

 

[yosupman]

I found this story difficult to read, and I thought I’d share it because it speaks directly to me–and perhaps to others–about what it means to be a Christian and a Catholic.


The Faces of Poverty

I have to tell you, friends, I understand that we can (and do) differ about how best to help the poor in our country, but I there needs to be a greater sense of urgency among the faithful in our churches with regard to this issue. I’m 42 years old and I’ve never seen anything like what’s happening out there in America…and it’s not getting any better. People all over are in desperate need of help, and it is our job to help them. Not judge. Not decide who does and who doesn’t need help. Not turn our eyes away because it’s easier to ignore the pain and the mess and the hard questions. Just help.

I wonder if people would be willing to share what’s going on in their parishes with regard to aid and assistance to the poor. Have you seen an increase in giving, in volunteering, in awareness of what’s happening to tens of millions of our countrymen? Do your parish priests talk about it (mine don’t)? Do you think it’s a topic lay people should be asking our priests to address? Are you praying for the poor?

So much pain and sorrow. What a terrible and sad time for America.

I agree we should help the poor. But our assistance should really help them. Blindly giving money to a poor person, or especially a vagrant will only hurt them as they will spend the money on alcohol, drugs, or unhealthy food. We should give our money to established organizations with controls in place, so that the money truly does help the poor.

 

[SanAgustin]

Ideally, Christians and people of good will should do everything possible to help the needy. However, we don’t live in an ideal world, and we live in a very complex globalized economy.

Government does have a role, people will quibble about tax rates, state vs federal, to be honest to me these are just little details often used to promote inaction. The poster who mentioned how the poor are often demonized is spot on, it is very disturbing to see Catholics demonizing the poor.

Politically I’m very disturbed by some of the libertarian arguments and language being used, specially those who seem to promote Randian “values”. In more than one occasion I’ve seen people use the term “moochers” on TV, and at least one US Senator quote books from Ayn Rand in a hearing. Very disturbing stuff when such an odious philosophy seeps in our political dialog and nobody questions it.

 

[JimG]

Yes, we must help the poor. Quite often, the work that we do to help the poor goes unnoticed, as it should; programs to help the poor are for the benefit of the poor, not for publicity. But just as an example, in my own area, the local diocese operates a dining hall–essentially a restaurant-cafeteria–which serves one free meal a day to all comers, no cost, no questions. Actually, it operates two such dining halls. And that’s just the Catholic presence. There are several other religious groups which offer similar services.

Many dioceses operate a St. Vincent de Paul society, which provides for basic needs of poor families with no red tape and no publicity. I know of a pastor who resided in a parish in a low income area; every night his doorbell would ring from 10pm to 2am, from people needing help, which he provided.

There is a lot of poverty, and a lot of help being provided without fanfare. Much more can be done. Just remember that our government is spending $4 billion a day more than it takes in. We are poorer than we think.