Poverty takes many forms

[reen12]

“He hath showed thee, O man, what is good,
and what the Lord requires of thee…”

stanford.edu/group/ivfaculty/Essays/mtki0.jpg

…do justice, love mercy - walk humbly, with thy God.

…let justice roll like a river - as a never-ending stream.

reen12

Micah 6, Amos 5

 

[distracted]

When we don’t we are essentially saying that there are those who are unloved by God, and/or we are putting ourselves above those in whom we don’t find Him.

There is so much of this going on in the world… I am guilty of thinking such things myself, hate to say… but to my credit, i do tyr to correct myself when i see that i am thinking wrong like this…

Possibly becoming like the Pharisee who thanked God for not making him like those “others.”

i feel you just described what is going on a lot on these forums…

for some reason, the forums seem to bring out the worst in people… (some people)… and sometimes i am not so good at … well, staying above that level…

, how she often looks upon one who is clearly angry and injured and is taking that out on someone else, and can look upon them thinking “what is it that happened to you that has brought you to this point?”

Wow… Kinda weird… I was just going to skim through this Post (not feeling too energetic… etc.) but this is hitting some nerves…
I feel that i am sometimes an angry person (though i try to be a good Christian) but that no one understands or accepts my anger… True, i don’t exactly try to get them to understand… (i put up walls, etc.)… then there are others i know who are also angry and not handling it very well. I have to admit i don’t always have a lot of patience with them but lately God has been showing me that i should look deeper… and if it is dangerous (emotioally or otherwise) to be around the person, at least i can pray for him or her…

we are all wounded and in need of love and understanding.

Yes, but we get used to stuffing our needs and longings and becoming, well, frankly, like robots… going through the motions of life… stuffing, stuffing, stuffing… never really letting anyone know who we REALLY are…

I really have to get going and maybe i shouldn’t just drop in on a post like this, without reading all that went before it… but your words caught my attention…

I fear that they become rigid and lacking in compassion, not only driving people from the church but distorting the face of God for those with whom they come in contact. They drove me from the church many years ago, and I still encounter them today,

I could have said the same thing…

Have you ever had it happen that you are feeling really good one morning, really close to God… and then you go to Church… for Mass… and you…well, leave feeling worse than before you came?? That doesn’t happen to me very often… but, well, maybe it is only this one particular Church … but anyway, I strongly believe that along with the Real Presence of Christ in the Church, there is also an evil spirit from the devil there as well… I have felt it…

God bless…

 

[reen12]

A fine post, distracted. It touched my heart. Thank you.

I have found, in my own instance, that anger is a less hurting
emotion to deal with, because anger is a shield -
so I won’t have to experience the pain and hurt, that has
caused the anger to well up in me.

Anger sometimes seems like an emotion of the “strong.”
I can still see myself as “strong,” when I am inundated by anger -
whereas allowing myself to feel a small little creature -
hiding my hurt, behind the anger, is very hard

No one likes to feel small and defenseless and hurt.

Again, thank you for posting your thought, distracted.
There were so many things that you said that I could identify with. If my poor head wasn’t so tired tonight, I would have liked to offer other reflections, as well.

Each day, I live with my own inner poverty, asking God
to have mercy.

reen12

 

[ncjohn]

Hi distracted,

You made so many good points, but this one in particular struck me because I so well understand it.

ncjohn:

…we are all wounded and in need of love and understanding.

Yes, but we get used to stuffing our needs and longings and becoming, well, frankly, like robots… going through the motions of life… stuffing, stuffing, stuffing… never really letting anyone know who we REALLY are…

I grew up with a psychologically abusive father who spent a great deal of time convincing me that I “would never amount to anything” and that “if I wanted your opinion I’d ask for it.” Needless to say, I learned well how to stuff my needs and longings, and how to protect my inner self from being rejected and hurt–mostly by pushing people away before they could hurt me and refusing to trust anyone.

And in many ways like Reen, I also had God taken away from me. It’s a story you can read here forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=231340 if the mood strikes you. It wasn’t until my mid-forties that I found someone trustworthy enough to show me the face of God again, so I had also learned well how to stuff any belief or trust in God since He had similarly been painted as an abusive father.

When one can’t “relate”, even within one’s relationships, life does just become a matter of “going through the motions”. And the messages we send out then, in our own poverty from what was taken from us, just infect another whole generation. It’s quite frankly no wonder to me at all that there are so many who are disenchanted with God and Church, especially when so many speaking for the two of them seem so totally at odds with the message that the gospels proclaim.

Distracted, I hope you have found at least one person in your life with whom you can be who you really are. Along with that handful I met a few years back who brought me back on the road, I was incredibly blessed to have God place a few people here in my path–people with whom I have found more love, compassion and companionship than I had encountered anywhere else in my life.

Yes, there are many here who are screaming in agony from their own neediness, and transmitting that pain to others. But there are also those who have managed to transform their pain and who can reach out to others as the hands and feet of God Himself, showing His face of compassion and mercy. If you let down your guard a little when you see them, it will amaze you the safe pasture you’ll find yourself able to graze in.

Peace to you!

 

[reen12]

quote: ncjohn

But there are also those who have managed to transform their pain and who can reach out to others as the hands and feet of God Himself, showing His face of compassion and mercy. If you let down your guard a little when you see them, it will amaze you the safe pasture you’ll find yourself able to graze in.

reens

 

[distracted]

A fine post, distracted. It touched my heart. Thank you. thank you for the encouragement… so refreshing after some of the rude, insensitive stuff i sometimes read @ the forums…

I have found, in my own instance, that anger is a less hurting

 

[reen12]

quote: distracted

Yes, i hve learned this, from self and others… So why is it so hard to keep beliving that when someone is angry, i shouldn’t take offense?? I am human… so human…

Oh, distracted, it’s not that I don’t get angry and offended.
As you note, this is so human. It is often many hours or even
days later, before I am able to say - about someone who
has given offense - “What has been done to you, that you would treat another this way?”
“How are you hurting?”

I think that, sometimes, another does not realize, fully, that
what they have done or said has deeply wounded and
offended another.
Yet how can I ask God to forgive me, if I do not forgive others?

I think, too, that 'forgiveness" is sometimes misunderstood.

Forgiveness does not mean that I am required to have friendly feelings
toward one who has offended me, or hurt me.
[For one thing, I am way too ill, psychologically, to long endure offensive treatment.]

Anger is a messenger, sometimes. It lets me know that I
am upset - over something done or said to me.
An ‘alarm’ system, of sorts. When the alarm goes off,
I 'head for the hills!" - as soon as possible.

People who are emotionally nourishing, in life, must be greatly blessed by God.
When I am with people who are emotionally nourishing,
I feel like a little drooping flower that has just been watered.

reen

 

[sawman]

dear all,
I 've read the recent posts, and there is something in these last few that has been touching a very tender spot for me. The idea that God works thru smallness and weakness. For the longest time I’ve been afraid of God making me smaller amd weaker, unable to “take care of my own business”. The last couple of years it seems that the more I draw near to Him, the weaker and more precarious my living situation has become. I am very slowly able to trust Him more and more, but there are times of grave anxiety as well. I am pretty sure this is His work,but it is akin to having a nail pulled out of three fingers without pain killers.

Weak as in too old to do my work anymore.
Small as in having no stature or standing in the community.
Weak as in seeing more and more of my defeciencies.
Small as in living financially on the edge of insolvency.

In many ways you people have seen your smallness and are a great comfort and example to me, thank you all for your sharing. I know that we are not to be wise as the world is wise. Smallness and weakness are not considered laudable traits by the world’s standards. I am afraid much if the time even though He says “Be not afraid”. Please pray for me. I pray for you quite often and I think that God is working in and through us and using our words to speak needed things to each other. Thanks.

 

[reen12]

quote: sawman

The idea that God works thru smallness and weakness. For the longest time
I’ve been afraid of God making me smaller amd weaker, unable to “take care of my own business”.

I don’t think that I can convey my thought, clearly, sawman.

Next to God, each of us is smaller and weaker.
Those who are blessed, know this.

For it will have been made perfectly clear, by life happenings,
that He is our strength and our surety - when no one,
and nothing else -* can *be.

Come to Me, all of you who are heavily burdened, and I will give you rest.

Heavily burdened - by what? Anxiety? Raw fear?
Feeling suddenly overcome by a sense of weakness and ineptitude?
Feeling scared and small? Feeling, somehow, unequipped -
for whatever the current reality is, that overwhelms?
Fear of the future?

I am now age 62. My physical strength is not as it has always been.
God has to be my strength. I can’t even run fast enough,
anymore, to get away from a sudden danger.

Yet, did Jesus think “I can’t even move My hands, to wipe the sweat from My face.”
The Master of the Universe, Creator of all that is - so physically weak, now nailed to a crossbearm, and He can’t even wipe the blood and the sweat from His own eyes.

And He said a curious thing.

Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart,
and you will find rest for your souls. "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

“Learn from Me - for I am gentle and lowly in heart.”

The lowly of heart and circumstance find their rest and surety in Him. True rest. *True *surety.
Maybe this is what was meant by “The first shall be last, and the last first.”
I really don’t know, but I think so.

reens

 

[ncjohn]

dear all,

Weak as in too old to do my work anymore.
Small as in having no stature or standing in the community.
Weak as in seeing more and more of my defeciencies.
Small as in living financially on the edge of insolvency.

In many ways you people have seen your smallness and are a great comfort and example to me, thank you all for your sharing.

Sawman, if you only knew the strength you show in your “smallness” and “weakness”. Perhaps you have no real choice in much or all of this and it is “simply” a matter of surrendering to it and finding God in it. Perhaps in some of it you have actually chosen to give it all over to God, which I would classify as true heroic virtue.

I can see my smallness to some degree, but mine is much more at a “head level” than what you actually experience in your life. Mine hasn’t required any great deal of anxiety or fear, but is really just a dawning realization of my littleness before God.

In many ways what you’re saying reminds me of the old saying about the difference between involvement and commitment (I think that’s what it is anyway). When it comes to breakfast time, the chicken is “involved” but the pig is “committed”. Needless to say I see myself as the one merely “involved” in this situation.

I don’t know that the programming of my life–that you don’t give it ALL up just in case you’re wrong–would really allow me to get to where you are without being forced into the situation kicking and screaming. I know in my heart that it’s where I belong, but I have handcuffed myself far too well to go there willingly. I have a great poverty of trust, which I come by honestly but still know that I need to overcome.

If someone is an example here, and can help give me the courage to make at least small steps in the right direction, you are high on the list and I thank you.

 

[distracted]

quote
I think that, sometimes, another does not realize, fully, that
what they have done or said has deeply wounded and
offended another.

I try to tell myself this sometimes, but there are some things that have bene done/said to me… that i cna’t help thinking: “How can you not KNOW that you are offending me???” I mean, there is no way a certain thing is NOT going to offend… but even then, i know i have to forgive… and i do… but that doesn’t mean i am going to continue being aroudn the person who offends… You are so right… that a lot of people do not understand forgiveness. this person today accused me of not forgiving someone… and yet, i feel he only said that because i would not change my mind that the person who offended me really DID do something that was objectively wrong… forgiveness does not mean acting as though someone hwo has done wrong has NOT done wrong…

 

[sawman]

Dear all,
I look at the poverty of He who said,“My burden is easy, my yoke is light.”
He had no wealth at all no where to lay His head. No house, no home.
He had no political power none at all. No influence with the powers that be. His friends were poor and uninfluencial. They didn’t “know” anybody.
No health insurance.
No mortgage.
No retirement.
No safety net.
No sons for His old age.

He spoke to the powers that be because they needed speaking to.
He spoke to the wounded and sick because they needed speaking to.
He reasured and mended and healed and forgave.
From what treasury did He draw?
From what richness did He give?
He who in weakness showed strength.
In poverty showed riches.

Does He call all of us in some way to know His strength though His weakness? His riches through His poverty?
Only through His mercy.
only through His love.
By Your Grace Oh Lord.

 

[reen12]

quote: distracted

I try to tell myself this sometimes, but there are some things that have bene done/said to me… that i cna’t help thinking: “How can you not KNOW that you are offending me???” I mean, there is no way a certain thing is NOT going to offend… but even then, i know i have to forgive… and i do… but that doesn’t mean i am going to continue being aroudn the person who offends… You are so right… that a lot of people do not understand forgiveness. this person today accused me of not forgiving someone… and yet, i feel he only said that because i would not change my mind that the person who offended me really DID do something that was objectively wrong… forgiveness does not mean acting as though someone hwo has done wrong has NOT done wrong…

I understand, completely, what you are saying, distracted.
[Went to an annual used booksale, at one of the
parishes, here, and am nearly on my nose with fatigue.] http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif
I would like to reply to that which you have written,
and will do so tomorrow. I have found that, considering the
capacity to experience emotions - as a gift from God -
has been most helpful to me.

reen

 

[reen12]

quote: sawman

He who in weakness showed strength.
In poverty showed riches.

I think that one could meditate on that
for quite awhile, sawman. Thank you.

reen

 

[sawman]

Dear Reens,
Something you said a few posts back, about not being able to wipe the sweat from His eyes, got me to thinking.
In the course of my work, this happens on a regular basis. Where for one reason or another I can’t free my hands to wipe away sweat or blood or whatever. Usualy this is only for a few moments. this condition is a real pain. Sweat stings, and I can’t see. I’ve got to squinch up that eye until I can rub it. The thought of not being able to wipe at all, I think that would be nearly enough to make one scream.

In “That Hideous Strength”, one of the main characters, Mark I think is his name, is being indoctrinated into the inner ring of the group at the N.I.C.E. He is asked to degrade a crucifix. He finds this demand to be an inner turning point for himself because he just will not desecrate the image of one so helpless. Something in him appeals to that sense of unfairness. the idea of hurting such a helpless one is so despicable.

Anyway I wanted to share that with you before I forgot to. Thanks for the image you shared. The sight even if it is an inner one, of His passion is one that will always occupy me, and move me to thank Him for so great a love. Thank you.

 

[ncjohn]

I try to tell myself this sometimes, but there are some things that have bene done/said to me… that i cna’t help thinking: “How can you not KNOW that you are offending me???” I mean, there is no way a certain thing is NOT going to offend…

The thing is, distracted, that many of these things are actually said to intentionally offend. I have heard many doing so then justifying themselves, with no remorse or qualms whatsoever, by saying that one must speak in whatever way is necessary to convince one who is “clearly wrong” of the errors of their ways. That to NOT do so is unloving as it could allow them to experience eternal damnation.

I personally find two major flaws with that whole theory. The first is that I have never yet met someone who came to faith by being smacked in the head with a Bible. The more one hears such things, the more one becomes convinced that Christianity is a hypocritical sham and that Christians just don’t have a clue.

The second is that anything said to someone without compassion, especially if the person saying it doesn’t already have credibility with the listener, is going to be written off immediately. I can say “hard” things to my children or grandchildren–with compassion–when I need to, because they know I love them and am watching out for them. Such things will not be “heard” though by some person who doesn’t know me from Adam on an internet forum.

In the end, St. Paul had it right when he said that truth without love is a noisy gong and a clanging cymbal. What those using such overbearing approaches refuse to acknowledge is that they are indeed acting without love when they address someone in a way they would not allow themselves, or someone they love, to be addressed.

This too is a poverty in that something was taken from them to bring them to that point. But you’re right that one might be able to understand and forgive that without wanting to further jeopardize their peace by sticking around for another beating.

 

[distracted]

The thing is, distracted, that many of these things are actually said to intentionally offend.

no KIDDING!!

I have heard many doing so then justifying themselves, with no remorse or qualms whatsoever, by saying that one must speak in whatever way is necessary to convince one who is “clearly wrong” of the errors of their ways. That to NOT do so is unloving as it could allow them to experience eternal damnation.

This is true to a point… sometimes something “hard” needs to be said, but it can still be said in love, and it must be or the person is not going to listen… (not really listen…). I have foiund that it is a fact of human nature that people will (seemingly) die and go to Hell before they will admit that someone thye don’t like is right… Sad but true…
[Is this one reason why, as Marian apparitiions tell us, So mnay people go to Hell… Pride.]

I have never yet met someone who came to faith by being smacked in the head with a Bible.

People instinctively know thta Jesus values love more than… beating people over the head with the Bible (or even beating them over the head with the Church for that matter ).

The more one hears such things, the more one becomes convinced that Christianity is a hypocritical sham and that Christians just don’t have a clue.

Even so, i think people tell themselves that Christinas don’t have a clue… It is still not right, on their part, to reject truth just because it isn’t said in love… or enough love or what have you. In a way, “love” is a subjective term (in the human realm).

. I can say “hard” things to my children or grandchildren–with compassion–when I need to, because they know I love them and am watching out for them. Such things will not be “heard” though by some person who doesn’t know me from Adam on an internet forum.

so true…

I have a question for you…

If a person goes to confession (are you Catholic??)…

Assuming u r… , and the priest is rude & interrupts and only wnts to talk about some subject that has nothing to do with absolution (and is kind of “wordly” to boot)… and then gets irritated and leaves the confessional… w/o giving absolution… apparently because the penitent doesn’t agree (on the worldy issue??)… and the penitent is … well, it is kind of a last straw kind of thing w/ him… and he wnts to just forget about being Catholic… because of this & other incidents of rudeness and coldness (etc) he’s experienced in the Church… well, what do you think of this?

 

[sawman]

Dear Distracted,
I hope you won’t mind my two cents on this kind of incident, cause I’ve had a few like this myself. You mentioned that last straw kind of thing and rudeness and coldness from a priest.
I don’t know if it is a personality thing or what but I have experienced similar situations and my first reaction has always been accept the abuse and then leave. I for some reason find it very difficult to respond off the cuff to mostly anything. I tend to think the scene through and wonder how i might have instigated it. I try to come up with snappy reparte’s. As you can immagine I’m not a very good conversationalist. As to wanting to leave the Church? I don’t think anyone has that power over me. I’ve already done that once through neglegence, I’ll never leave again. I would beg you to reconsider and ask that God have mercy on the both you. You need it to perservere and endure and to forebear your brother’s cruel deeds. He needs it to overcome his rudeness and coldness and to cease turning people from Christ.

Be consoled by the fact that Our Lord recieved so much abuse and returned not a word. His poverty swalloed up the emnity thrown at Him. His poverty and woundedness absorbed the abuse and undeserved agony delt to Him. Maybe this is some how a way that His poverty overcomes time and distance to help us in our trials and let us resemble Him. What do you think?
Peace

 

[reen12]

I do so wish to reflect on what each of you have written,
right this moment. It’s now in the 90’s here, and I had
to haul out to purchase a graduation cake, and the
ballons were way at the farther end of the store,
and the sun was giving - sturdily - of it’s gifts of heat and light,
and I’m wrestling the cake off the front floor of the car, when I got home,
while trying to make sure that the balloon didn’t get away,
and don’t forget your pocketbook.
I’m exhausted! and the party hasn’t even begun.
I thought, ruefully, how even 5 years ago, this
would have been a cake walk. [Pun!]

Accepting the decline, in stamina and strength,
as one ages - is, too, a kind of poverty.
To have to ask someone to do a task for you,
that you did for yourself, for decades.

In my poverty, I need the help of others, now.
Sometimes - to lift something heavy, that I
can no longer lift, or needing the patience of
others, when I cannot focus like a laser, as I
was able to, for decades - no matter what was
going on.
I’m stunned by this fact. It should have come
as no surprise, but it did. Yet, on the other hand,
what does God teach us, through our aging?
What gifts would He like to give, to those who
are now aging?
Yet, to receive these gifts, I need to put down
what I’m still clutching in my hands.
Wishing - with everything in me, that these powers did
not have to diminish.

As soon as I have both the stamina and focus,
to reflect on what has been written here, I surely will.
It’s at moments like this, that I feel the poverty that
is now mine. I would like to write about the place
that emotions have, in the life of grace, and what
God actually asks of us - not what I think He is asking,
in terms of the emotional life of human beings.

What’s keeping me going, this afternoon, is the
thought of a lovely slice of all that cake and frosting. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a106/reen12/balloon-1.jpg

reen

 

[reen12]

quote: sawman

…not being able to wipe the sweat from His eyes, got me to thinking.
In the course of my work, this happens on a regular basis. Where for one reason or another I can’t free my hands to wipe away sweat or blood or whatever. Usualy this is only for a few moments. this condition is a real pain. Sweat stings, and I can’t see. I’ve got to squinch up that eye until I can rub it. The thought of not being able to wipe at all, I think that would be nearly enough to make one scream.

…The sight even if it is an inner one, of His passion is one that will always occupy me, and move me to thank Him for so great a love.

I think that one of the gifts of God, are those realities that enable us to identify with Jesus,
especially in those things that concern His passion and death.
Yet these gifts come at heavy cost, humanly speaking.

He is God/Son of God, yet it was in His humanity,
that He suffered the agonies of Roman crucifixion.

What did He think of, as they led Him away from Gethsemani?
Was He thrown into a ‘holding cell?’ Was He afraid?
In His humanity - how did He feel? - being betrayed by one,
then being deserted by each His Apostles - all except John.
Was He full of anxiety, wondering about His mother, and how she would be cared for,
now that Joseph was gone?

He allowed His mind to be clouded, in the sense that
He actually felt Himself abandoned by His Father. He felt as
any human being feels, when he/she is abandoned.
“Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?”
“My God, My God, why have You abandoned Me?”

He had truly listened to people, and He had healed.
He acutally saw each of them. He was fully present to them.

They came in droves - to hear Him speak from a hillside,
later being fed by Him. And He offers the bread of life to all.

How many, who suffer ingratitude, can identify with Him?
How many are left on hospital wards, or in nursing homes -
never to be visited by those whom they cared and sacrificed for?
As He was crucified on a hill, left all alone by all of His
closest followers, but one. John, the youngest, was there.

I often wonder whether, when we offer to God our own suffering,
does this somehow comfort Jesus - then?
Did God reach out, through time, and call some to be with
His Son, on Golgatha, in their own crucifixions? In their
own abandonments?
I don’t know, but I think so.

That they would know how He felt -because of what they feel.
“Remember Me…”
That He was not all alone, hanging there. That human beings,
throughout time to come, would participate with Him, in the
saving act wrought on Calvary.
That how this could be, is a mystery. The mystery of
redemptive suffering.

Or maybe it offers balm to our own hearts, when we know
that Jesus, the God/Man, knows how we feel, because
He felt that way, too.

reen