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severus68
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Such advice may just get the OP to call of the marriage.
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severus68
Guest
Well said.That’s what I find troublesome about this exchange. Presumably, he knows she is the child of an alcoholic. Presumably, he understands her worries. I would think that he could approach this situation very differently and she would feel far less stressed and controlled over the whole thing.
I don’t have enough context to really say what’s going on here with him. But to me, it does sound like he made the demand because he wanted it, and he’s done little to understand the OP’s point of view. I think if he had approached it saying, “I’d love to spend more time with you. I know you’re worried about money, but here’s why your job won’t have as much impact as you think. Would you consider cutting back so we could spend more time together?” - then we wouldn’t all be here.
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severus68
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Agreed on everything except that I am not sure that that is the only or main reason for the increase in co-habitation and divorce.smack my head
If two people are ready and willing to enter a relationship, whether it’s marriage or dating or a business endeavor, they must be willing to listen and to concede certain points and to negotiate carefully, frankly and creatively. I believe this “obey” nonsense, as if men are somehow more capable of making decisions for the couple, is offensive and archaic, and it partially explains why there is so much co-habitation and so much divorce.
Particularly in marriage, there is no room - NONE - for a power struggle or an ego trip.
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severus68
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It is what your opinion is of God’s plan.You think the need for husbands to lead and wives to obey is nonsense, offensive and archaic. Have you not read the Bible recently? With respect, this is God’s plan for us.
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severus68
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Beautifully said.With respect, the God I believe in is not this small, nor is He limited to assignments of gender power.
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severus68
Guest
Interesting.1 Sam. 25 – Abigail didn’t submit to Nabal, and God rewarded her willingness to do what was right by killing her husband a few days later and setting her free to marry David.
Acts 5 – Ananias wanted to get the credit for giving all his worldly goods to The Church without actually doing it. God didn’t like all the lying and killed him for it. Sapphira submitted to her husband’s plan, and God killed her too. If only she hadn’t submitted to her husband, things would have ended differently.
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Prodigirl
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My comment was that these circumstances partially explain the increase in co-habitation and divorce, not that they are the only or the main reasons for them. Heaven knows there are countless reasons why people refuse to get married or run screaming from a bad marriage. :sad_yes:Agreed on everything except that I am not sure that that is the only or main reason for the increase in co-habitation and divorce.
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KatieM2
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The Bible tells us we should allow our husbands to interpret God’s word for us. So if he tells me to do something, I will thank him for his guidance, and obey him gladly.If your husband told you to get an abortion or to lie on your tax returns, would you do it?
Submission has to come with a lot of fine print, or it’s a recipe for abuse and sin.
Wives are responsible moral actors–we can’t simply do as we are told to the detriment of our families with the defense that we were just “following orders.”
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Xantippe
Guest
Are you Protestant and/or a troll?The Bible tells us we should allow our husbands to interpret God’s word for us. So if he tells me to do something, I will thank him for his guidance, and obey him gladly.
Would you really get an abortion if your husband told you to? That’s so wrong.
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heidi_storage
Guest
My money’s on troll. Most Protestants who believe that the wife should submit to the husband (raises hand) also recognize that the wife is never to sin simply because her husband tells her to do so. It is analagous to being a good citizen–you are not to break the law, unless the law tells you to do something wrong (such as worshiping your leader); in such a case, it is immoral to obey the law. All of the Protestants I know aren’t so dimwitted as to believe otherwise.Are you Protestant and/or a troll?
Would you really get an abortion if your husband told you to? That’s so wrong.
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Xantippe
Guest
I’m suspecting this one is a troll, but there definitely are Protestants who haven’t thought through the obvious need to delineate limits to wifely obedience. (I’ve been reading through the archives at No Longer Quivering this past week.) But even they would say, “Wait a minute!” if the husband wants the wife to have an abortion.My money’s on troll. Most Protestants who believe that the wife should submit to the husband (raises hand) also recognize that the wife is never to sin simply because her husband tells her to do so. It is analagous to being a good citizen–you are not to break the law, unless the law tells you to do something wrong (such as worshiping your leader); in such a case, it is immoral to obey the law. All of the Protestants I know aren’t so dimwitted as to believe otherwise.
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KatieM2
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I’m not a Protestant or a troll. I also believe abortion to be murder.Are you Protestant and/or a troll?
Would you really get an abortion if your husband told you to? That’s so wrong.
There is no way my husband would ever ask me to do such a thing as he is at least as strong in his faith as I am. But I understand the hierarchy goes child - woman - man - God, so if he ordered me to do it, though I’d pray and do all I could to check he was certain, I would of course do it.
BTW I don’t see why anyone would think Catholic women any less obliged to obey their husbands than Protestants. We’re all trying to live according to the same Bible!
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agnes_therese
Guest
I’m sorry, but we’re not living according to the same Bible if you would get an abortion because your husband said so.I’m not a Protestant or a troll. I also believe abortion to be murder.
There is no way my husband would ever ask me to do such a thing as he is at least as strong in his faith as I am. But I understand the hierarchy goes child - woman - man - God, so if he ordered me to do it, though I’d pray and do all I could to check he was certain, I would of course do it.
BTW I don’t see why anyone would think Catholic women any less obliged to obey their husbands than Protestants. We’re all trying to live according to the same Bible!
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alexandratm
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Then how do you explain God striking down Sapphira for following her husband, rather than the Lord?I’m not a Protestant or a troll. I also believe abortion to be murder.
There is no way my husband would ever ask me to do such a thing as he is at least as strong in his faith as I am. But I understand the hierarchy goes child - woman - man - God, so if he ordered me to do it, though I’d pray and do all I could to check he was certain, I would of course do it.
BTW I don’t see why anyone would think Catholic women any less obliged to obey their husbands than Protestants. We’re all trying to live according to the same Bible!
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Xantippe
Guest
If all a woman needed to do was to obey her husband to live a moral life, we could have two sets of Bibles, His and Hers.
The His set would be the normal Bible. The Hers Bible would be blank except for “Ask him.”
Awesome.
The His set would be the normal Bible. The Hers Bible would be blank except for “Ask him.”
Awesome.
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Xantippe
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I also propose shortening the Creed for married women to “Whatever you say, sugar.”
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marymary1975
Guest
I have to agree with this. This is going to get worst after marriage. To me the specific issue about the job is secondary as to the fact that how you two are going to handle difficulties during marriages. From the OP the issue here is not just “power struggles” instead that you and your fiancee have very different concepts of how to resolve problems and those two concepts crash against each other. One wants to negotiate things and the other wants to have the final word. Marriage is going to have difficulties and you need to know how are you going to handle it. I don’t think it is so much that he is stubborn. Even if someone is stubborn, a stuuborn person can learn to compromise and work together. Marriage is one of those things that many times both would have to compromise in the middle and accept things that won’t be fully what you want.There is only one person in the universe that you should marry: Your Best Friend in the whole world.
Best friends do not have power struggles.
They accept each other for who and what they are without question or making any judgment about them.
As someone who has been around the block a few times, I will say that no matter how good he/she is to you, if you are having strife at this stage of your relationship, it will get worse after you get married. I strongly suggest that you get a referral from your pastor to a marriage counsellor before you gegt married.
The other way to solve difficulties is for one to be the dominant and the other one being OK with the other person being the dominant. But in the OP case it doesn’t seem you are willing to follow that road, seems that you want him to compromise and he wants to be the dominant and you refuse to that. That is a problem. I agree that the solution here is for both of you going to counseling before the wedding. Even if you quit the job as he wants I am pretty sure that eventually something else is going to come up and you will have the same situation. IG you don’t address this problem of how to resolve differences in a marriage that can be a serious issue after the marriage.
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marymary1975
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I think I may be condemned to hell already because we never do whatever the other one says. We negotiate things in a civilized way and reach a solution that benefits everyone which is in the middle ground. I guess we both will go to hell for finding happily resolutions to all our difficulties and we will be condemned for eternity on the grounds of the wife failing to blindly obey her husband.I also propose shortening the Creed for married women to “Whatever you say, sugar.”
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AnnArbor
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I think people might assume you are a troll since you are arguing, as you have in other threads, for a position that is clearly and specifically contrary to Church teaching.I’m not a Protestant or a troll. I also believe abortion to be murder.
There is no way my husband would ever ask me to do such a thing as he is at least as strong in his faith as I am. But I understand the hierarchy goes child - woman - man - God, so if he ordered me to do it, though I’d pray and do all I could to check he was certain, I would of course do it.
BTW I don’t see why anyone would think Catholic women any less obliged to obey their husbands than Protestants. We’re all trying to live according to the same Bible!
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Xantippe
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Yes. See Casti Connubii.I think people might assume you are a troll since you are arguing, as you have in other threads, for a position that is clearly and specifically contrary to Church teaching.
In any case, the Catholic Church has never been very hot about the idea of the layman interpreting Holy Scripture all by himself and laying down the law to his family as the solitary, unquestioned despot of his household. That is a very Protestant and specifically fundamentalist idea.
It’s much more Catholic to say, “Why don’t you talk to your priest about this?”
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