Power to forgive and retain sins: did Thomas get left out?

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I noticed something curious about the episode in which Jesus bestowed the power to forgive and retain sins:

John 20:19-24:
[19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
[20] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
[24] Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.

If Thomas wasn’t present when Christ breathed on the other apostles, did he end up lacking the particular authority which Christ had given them?
 
I would say that Thomas did not have to be present in the room when Jesus spoke these words in order to be empowered to forgive and retain sins (as per the sacrament of reconciliation). It is worth noting that this directive and authority from Christ has the power to transcend time and space in order to include the thousands of priests who came after the Apostles, so it stands to reason that it likewise transcended time and space to include Thomas also. When Christ breathed on the apostles, this represented the life-giving power of the Spirit of God, so it has limitless range.
 
Trebor135 said:
I noticed something curious about the episode in which Jesus bestowed the power to forgive and retain sins:

John 20:19-24:
[19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
[20] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
[24] Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.

If Thomas wasn’t present when Christ breathed on the other apostles, did he end up lacking the particular authority which Christ had given them?
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Given that the other Apostles in the future like St. Paul and St. Mark wasn’t there at this time as well, presence at that time wouldn’t be necessary. St. Peter or one of the other Apostles could have passed this authority on St. Thomas if they even need to do that.
 
All through the Old Testament, authority was granted through a physical sign such as annointing, laying on of hands, giving a signet ring or vesting in purple robes. Similarly, the sacrament of holy orders includes a physical sign and action by a bishop. The sacrament is not valid without it. The sacrament cannot be claimed in the absence of the physical sign and proper form even though Christ’s directive stands today.

So many self proclaimed “Bishops” and pastors in the Evangelical Churches, Mormons and leaders of the Jehovah’s Witnesses claim authority using some sort of vague, limetless, and unbounded authority of Christ. We have to be careful here.

The question is interesting, fascinating in fact and I’m sure it has a very simple answer. He could have just breathed on Thomas right after his confession of Christ as Lord and God. We may never know.

-Tim-
 
That is a brilliant question! Apostolic Succession sure would be messed up. Many theological implications here and wonder if there is a specific answer to your question in Church teaching, or if it’s left open and we are to assume he was “consecrated” somehow along the way.
 
We should resist the temptation to think that everything Jesus said and did was written down and became Scripture. The Gospel of John tells us it wasn’t, that much more occurred that wasn’t written (John 20,31, .21:25).

Thomas evangelized in Palestine, Osroene, Armenia, Egypt, India, and Burma. He would not have gone without being fully prepared with all the gifts Christ wanted His Apostles to have. Forgiving sins was certainly an important gift.

Jim Dandy
 
Trebor135 said:
I noticed something curious about the episode in which Jesus bestowed the power to forgive and retain sins:

John 20:19-24:
[19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
[20] When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
[22] And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
[23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
[24] Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.

If Thomas wasn’t present when Christ breathed on the other apostles, did he end up lacking the particular authority which Christ had given them?
Click to expand...
I concur with some of the replies… though we do not have a blow by blow account we know, from Scriptures, that God’s Salvific Plan does not rely on man’s abilities or wisdom; the fact that Thomas was not present when Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on the other Ten does not necessitate that upon his reunion with the Ten he did not receive the same Gift and Delegation.

In fact, his absence offered two vital revelations:
a) Jesus knew exactly what he lacked as He looked into his inner-most depth and demanded that His Believers rely not on themselves and their temporal senses but on God and His Power through the Holy Spirit, and
b) Thomas comes to his personal realization that Jesus is God and declares his Omnipotence as he confesses “…my Lord, and my God!”

…and we know, as Dandy points it out, that his absence did not cause Thomas to lose his Apostleship; rather, as with many things in Scriptures, the New Testament text offers only a partial revelation of Jesus’ Ministry and the development of the early Church–hidden in Sacred Tradition, to which Scriptures also attest, is found volumes upon volumes of Oral Teachings… it could well be that there was an episode where one of the other Eleven may have put forth this issue and was quenched by Jesus’ silent smile or revisitation of the event in the singular form where Thomas would have been “read in” or rather it could have been that it happened automatically as Thomas was very much in close proximity to Jesus as he was made to perform the examination he demanded to do before accepting Christ’s Resurrection.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
24 So Moses went out and told the people the words of the LORD; and he gathered seventy men of the elders of the people, and placed them round about the tent. 25 Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and took some of the spirit that was upon him and put it upon the seventy elders; and when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But they did so no more. 26 Now two men remained in the camp, one named Eldad, and the other named Medad, and the spirit rested upon them; they were among those registered, but they had not gone out to the tent, and so they prophesied in the camp. 27 And a young man ran and told Moses, “Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp.” 28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the minister of Moses, one of his chosen men, said, “My lord Moses, forbid them.” 29 But Moses said to him, “Are you jealous for my sake? Would that all the LORD’s people were prophets, that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!” 30 And Moses and the elders of Israel returned to the camp.
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Numbers 11:24-30
Thomas’ absence seems to parallel the absence of Medad and Eldad.
 
Joe_Kelley said:
Numbers 11:24-30
Thomas’ absence seems to parallel the absence of Medad and Eldad.
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Very interesting. Not sure I agree but not sure that I disagree either.

It seems like an open door for every Tom, Dick and Harry to claim, “Me too” in terms of apostolic succession or special gift of the Holy Spirit. I think we have to be careful.

But the passage is something to seriously consider.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
Very interesting. Not sure I agree but not sure that I disagree either.

It seems like an open door for every Tom, Dick and Harry to claim, “Me too” in terms of apostolic succession or special gift of the Holy Spirit. I think we have to be careful.

But the passage is something to seriously consider.

-Tim-
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Tim, I concur with your warning… we know that it did actually take place during the formation of the early Church since there are passages from St. Paul, St. Peter. St. Jude and St. James that hit on the issue of Authority and the usurpers head-on; we even find it in Acts as the interloper, Simon, attempts to buy into the “Way” after witnessing the Power demonstrated by the Apostles… sadly, many men throughout history have apropriated Christ/the Holy Spirit/Scriptures in order to financially profit from the ignorance and gullibility of many–I can remember one group advertising pastorships on a book of matches: send “x” amount for a crash course and certificate! …quite the difference from St. Paul’s letter of recommendation!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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