T
tonyrey
Guest
“system” should be “insight”!
- Status
T
tonyrey
Guest
Death is often seen as evidence of non-Design. Camus described it as “le supreme abus”. It has been regarded as the supreme evil:
Yet death is an essential part of the biocycle. In the development of life it is as vital as birth! Death is only evil when it is premature and serves no useful purpose. It appears sinister when it seems to defeat the object of reproduction - as in the case of six baby wombats for whom only four nipples are provided. The fact that only the fittest will survive seems a ruthless process but how could it be otherwise in a competitive world? If the weakest have to be weeded out the sooner it occurs the better because the less they will suffer. It is unrealistic to demand that the laws of nature take into account every individual’s interest and arrange everything perfectly.
For human beings death is evil because we can understand its precise implications - that we shall **apparently **cease to exist and be separated forever from those we love. Its inevitability does not imply it is necessarily good. In fact it is evil if it makes life seem pointless. If we are sparks in the dark everything is ultimately absurd. In his book The Myth of Sisyphus Camus remarked that “la mort exalte l’injustice”. Death exalts injustice because the innocent suffer and the guilty remain unpunished.
Whether death is the end of our existence is not certain though - even from a non-religious point of view. Our minds are intangible and we can grasp intangible concepts. We cannot deny that truth exists without contradicting ourselves. If there is no such thing as truth nothing can be false! In other words everything is meaningless. Life is certainly meaningless without love and loses much of its meaning without freedom, neither of which can be measured or calculated. It is an illusion that material objects are more real than anything else because we wouldn’t know they exist if we didn’t have a mind. So there is no reason to believe the mind is less real than matter and plenty of evidence that it controls matter.
Materialism is relatively rare in the history of thought because human beings have believed in spiritual reality from time immemorial. Men have known intuitively that in life there is far more than meets the eye. Religion is a universal response to a fundamental need. It is impossible to live contentedly if we feel we have nothing to live for** apart from ourselves** because we are social beings.Evil is bound to lose in the long run because it is not only destructive but also self-destructive. When we lose our integrity we become slaves to our desires - like drug addicts incapable of exercising their willpower.
Jesus has justified belief in Design by giving us every reason to believe there is life after death. He has demonstrated how love can overcome evil. The Cross of His execution has become the symbol of our liberation. Suffering and death are no longer the greatest obstacles to belief but the most convincing evidence of our divine origin. Without them we couldn’t prove we have the power to serve Him as so many saints have done before us and demonstrate that we really love Him by following His example of courage and trust in God.
Berdyaev - The Destiny of Man
Yet death is an essential part of the biocycle. In the development of life it is as vital as birth! Death is only evil when it is premature and serves no useful purpose. It appears sinister when it seems to defeat the object of reproduction - as in the case of six baby wombats for whom only four nipples are provided. The fact that only the fittest will survive seems a ruthless process but how could it be otherwise in a competitive world? If the weakest have to be weeded out the sooner it occurs the better because the less they will suffer. It is unrealistic to demand that the laws of nature take into account every individual’s interest and arrange everything perfectly.
For human beings death is evil because we can understand its precise implications - that we shall **apparently **cease to exist and be separated forever from those we love. Its inevitability does not imply it is necessarily good. In fact it is evil if it makes life seem pointless. If we are sparks in the dark everything is ultimately absurd. In his book The Myth of Sisyphus Camus remarked that “la mort exalte l’injustice”. Death exalts injustice because the innocent suffer and the guilty remain unpunished.
Whether death is the end of our existence is not certain though - even from a non-religious point of view. Our minds are intangible and we can grasp intangible concepts. We cannot deny that truth exists without contradicting ourselves. If there is no such thing as truth nothing can be false! In other words everything is meaningless. Life is certainly meaningless without love and loses much of its meaning without freedom, neither of which can be measured or calculated. It is an illusion that material objects are more real than anything else because we wouldn’t know they exist if we didn’t have a mind. So there is no reason to believe the mind is less real than matter and plenty of evidence that it controls matter.
Materialism is relatively rare in the history of thought because human beings have believed in spiritual reality from time immemorial. Men have known intuitively that in life there is far more than meets the eye. Religion is a universal response to a fundamental need. It is impossible to live contentedly if we feel we have nothing to live for** apart from ourselves** because we are social beings.Evil is bound to lose in the long run because it is not only destructive but also self-destructive. When we lose our integrity we become slaves to our desires - like drug addicts incapable of exercising their willpower.
Jesus has justified belief in Design by giving us every reason to believe there is life after death. He has demonstrated how love can overcome evil. The Cross of His execution has become the symbol of our liberation. Suffering and death are no longer the greatest obstacles to belief but the most convincing evidence of our divine origin. Without them we couldn’t prove we have the power to serve Him as so many saints have done before us and demonstrate that we really love Him by following His example of courage and trust in God.
T
tonyrey
Guest
The outstanding virtue of Design is that it enables us to see everything in its true perspective. There is a framework of order, harmony and purpose within which there is disorder, discord and disruption. Existence is intrinsically valuable in spite of the view of Sophocles, Schopenhauer and others that it would be better if nothing existed. The beauty, richness and variety of life on Earth were valuable even before man appeared. No one who appreciates nature can deny that a planet devoid of life is less fascinating than our planet.
Natural evil is an inevitable consequence of physicality. For example, it is unrealistic to expect perfect cohesion where are moving objects. Collisions are often creative but they are also destructive. The laws of nature are a source of failure as well as success. But harmony is more fundamental than discord; otherwise living organisms would not have survived, developed and proliferated to such an astonishing extent. Cooperation rather than conflict is at the heart of the ecosystem. There are bound to be negative as well as positive features in a physical world but the drawbacks do not outweigh its value.
John Stuart Mill was appalled by the amount of suffering in the world yet he believed there is “a preponderance of evidence that the Creator desired the pleasure of his creatures” and “pleasure of one description or another is afforded by almost everything” whereas “the pain itself usually seems like a thing undesigned”. - JS Mill, Theism
The laws of nature may appear ruthless and indifferent to individual needs but they are the very basis of life. Physical development cannot occur unless there is hardship. The overall panorama of nature is one of success rather than failure: the norm is health rather than disease and strength rather than weakness.
The power of Design is displayed in its **positive **interpretation of reality which inspires us to have a positive attitude in contrast to a negative outlook which offers no incentive for action or hope for the future. Belief in a purposeless universe is soul-destroying in more senses than one. Its logical outcome is “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die”. To assume this life is the only life may give a superficial sense of freedom but it is a shortsighted policy doomed to despair. The prospect of death must cast a black shadow over life for any realistic person when it is equated with total extinction and permanent separation from everyone and everything we love and cherish.
The power of positive thinking is well-known and is not based on fantasy. We have to live as if life is endless if we are to achieve our full potential and pursue perfection rather than pleasure. Every moment is precious because it has eternal significance. The greatest men and women have achieved greatness because they believed in the objective and indestructible reality of truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love. They did not fight for fiction but for facts. The effects of what we do are not confined to the here and now but extend even beyond our life on earth. All the great religions have stressed that spiritual development is the** reason **why we exist and it does not come to an abrupt halt when we die.
Heaven and hell are logical corollaries of good and evil. As Sartre pointed out, we cannot remain uncommitted. Jesus said “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body” because what happens to our soul is far more significant than any physical event. To live as if we are here by chance is to deprive ourselves of the greatest joy we can experience: to believe we are loved to such an extent He let Himself be tortured and crucified so that we can love Him and those who love Him in heaven.
Natural evil is an inevitable consequence of physicality. For example, it is unrealistic to expect perfect cohesion where are moving objects. Collisions are often creative but they are also destructive. The laws of nature are a source of failure as well as success. But harmony is more fundamental than discord; otherwise living organisms would not have survived, developed and proliferated to such an astonishing extent. Cooperation rather than conflict is at the heart of the ecosystem. There are bound to be negative as well as positive features in a physical world but the drawbacks do not outweigh its value.
John Stuart Mill was appalled by the amount of suffering in the world yet he believed there is “a preponderance of evidence that the Creator desired the pleasure of his creatures” and “pleasure of one description or another is afforded by almost everything” whereas “the pain itself usually seems like a thing undesigned”. - JS Mill, Theism
The laws of nature may appear ruthless and indifferent to individual needs but they are the very basis of life. Physical development cannot occur unless there is hardship. The overall panorama of nature is one of success rather than failure: the norm is health rather than disease and strength rather than weakness.
The power of Design is displayed in its **positive **interpretation of reality which inspires us to have a positive attitude in contrast to a negative outlook which offers no incentive for action or hope for the future. Belief in a purposeless universe is soul-destroying in more senses than one. Its logical outcome is “Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die”. To assume this life is the only life may give a superficial sense of freedom but it is a shortsighted policy doomed to despair. The prospect of death must cast a black shadow over life for any realistic person when it is equated with total extinction and permanent separation from everyone and everything we love and cherish.
The power of positive thinking is well-known and is not based on fantasy. We have to live as if life is endless if we are to achieve our full potential and pursue perfection rather than pleasure. Every moment is precious because it has eternal significance. The greatest men and women have achieved greatness because they believed in the objective and indestructible reality of truth, goodness, freedom, justice, beauty and love. They did not fight for fiction but for facts. The effects of what we do are not confined to the here and now but extend even beyond our life on earth. All the great religions have stressed that spiritual development is the** reason **why we exist and it does not come to an abrupt halt when we die.
Heaven and hell are logical corollaries of good and evil. As Sartre pointed out, we cannot remain uncommitted. Jesus said “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body” because what happens to our soul is far more significant than any physical event. To live as if we are here by chance is to deprive ourselves of the greatest joy we can experience: to believe we are loved to such an extent He let Himself be tortured and crucified so that we can love Him and those who love Him in heaven.
G
grannymh
Guest
Re: The opening sentence of post 451. “The outstanding virtue of Design is that it enables us to see everything in its true perspective.”
In my humble opinion, it is the Catholic Church which enables humanity to see everything in its true perspective. People may see design as an important tool for learning about our environment: but it is the Catholic Church which lifts our focus from the natural environment to the supernatural realm of God.
May all of you experience the joy and peace of Easter,
granny
Then the angel said to the women in reply, "Do not be afraid! I know that you are seeking Jesus the crucified. He is not here, for He has been raised just as He said.”
Matthew, Chapter 28
T
tonyrey
Guest
I agree with you - adding that the Catholic Church is the community founded by Jesus who revealed that God is a loving Father who created the universe so that His creatures may have life abundantly…Amen!
G
grannymh
Guest
Actually, God revealed Himself as a loving Father in the place where the first human Adam freely committed the original sin which shattered humanity’s relationship with God. The first announcement of the Messiah and Redeemer is seen in Chapter 3 of Genesis.
T
tonyrey
Guest
I think you will agree that the full perfection of God’s love was not evident until Jesus came into the world. The Jews did not believe we should love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. Their inclination to put justice before forgiveness made Him remind them of Hosea’s words: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice".
T
tonyrey
Guest
The term "design"is confusing because it has several different meanings. Those relevant to this discussion are order, purpose and plan:
“order” itself has several different meanings but the commonest ones are spatial arrangement and temporal regularity. Things are said to be arranged in a certain order if they form some kind of pattern or their positions can be explained by a rule or set of rules. This is the weakest sense of the term because the arrangement may have come about by chance.
Events are described as orderly when they occur regularly and are predictable. For example, a chemical reaction which always produces the same results under identical conditions exhibits temporal regularity. The strongest sense of the term “order” is when both spatial and temporal regularity are combined and form a harmonious system in which the different elements work together like the parts of the machine. There is unity underlying the diversity and multiplicity of the different constituents.
Yet the most impressive type of order is where there is coordination and subordination: a hierarchical system in which many lesser types of order are contained within one all-embracing whole. St Thomas describes this in the Summa contra Gentiles:
“order” itself has several different meanings but the commonest ones are spatial arrangement and temporal regularity. Things are said to be arranged in a certain order if they form some kind of pattern or their positions can be explained by a rule or set of rules. This is the weakest sense of the term because the arrangement may have come about by chance.
Events are described as orderly when they occur regularly and are predictable. For example, a chemical reaction which always produces the same results under identical conditions exhibits temporal regularity. The strongest sense of the term “order” is when both spatial and temporal regularity are combined and form a harmonious system in which the different elements work together like the parts of the machine. There is unity underlying the diversity and multiplicity of the different constituents.
Yet the most impressive type of order is where there is coordination and subordination: a hierarchical system in which many lesser types of order are contained within one all-embracing whole. St Thomas describes this in the Summa contra Gentiles:
Sir Edmund Whittaker presents the same view in his book Space and Spirit:
In other words he believes order is evidence of purpose but it is a specific type of purpose. Living organisms act purposefully but without making plans like human beings. Biological goal-seeking is different from rational goal-seeking which entails hindsight, insight and foresight. In the words of Jacques Monod:
- Chance and Necessity
David Hume dismissed human thought as insignificant yet all his arguments and conclusions are based on the assumption that it is the most trustworthy guide to the nature of reality. None of the alternatives he suggested are credible and merely reinforce the superiority of the Design argument. But that is the subject of my next post.
T
tonyrey
Guest
Correction:
“The concept of** teleonomy** implies the idea of an oriented, coherent and constructive activity.” Jacques Monod
“The concept of** teleonomy** implies the idea of an oriented, coherent and constructive activity.” Jacques Monod
T
tonyrey
Guest
His precise words were:
The belief that our power of reason is “so minute, so weak, so bounded” is at odds with the astonishing success of science. It also undermines the cogency of Hume’s own arguments. Scepticism is obviously self-destructive and inconsistent with such confidence in his own judgment. If we are merely “bundles of perceptions” - as he asserted in *A Treatise of Human Nature - *the most logical conclusion is total agnosticism with regard to the nature of reality, and human nature in particular.
He is considered by some to be the greatest British philosopher but in spite of his perspicuity he failed to realise he was kicking away the ladder by which he surveyed and assessed reality. If reason is so weak it is more reasonable to remain silent… Pascal was closer to the truth when he pointed out that our greatness is due precisely to our power of reason which enables us to be aware the universe exists - even though it is unaware we exist. The weakness of Hume’s argument is revealed in his suggested alternatives:
To his rhetorical question
the answer is “Yes”! Despite being an atheist Stephen Hawking certainly doesn’t rule out that possibility…
Thought is **not **“the model of the whole universe” but it is certainly far from being totally insignificant…
T
tonyrey
Guest
The sole alternative to Design is non-Design but there are at least three non-Design theories:
Theists believe God is inscrutable but the difference is that God explains the existence of knowledge whereas the universe doesn’t. Why should Ultimate Reality be inferior to, or less powerful than, the contents of the universe?
#2 implies that the laws of nature have no explanation and are ultimate facts which explain everything else. This assumption implies that all explanations are reducible to physical and chemical processes - yet there is no evidence that physical and chemical processes are aware of anything. The electrical currents in the brain are no different from any other type of electrical current. What would enable them to become aware of anything?
The laws of nature are descriptions of the regularities in the universe - which leads to a similar difficulty. What is describing them? It must be something they have produced. In that case what they have produced is more powerful than they are because it has insight. But then the cause is not proportioned to the effect - which is a fatal flaw in any explanation. The simplest and most cogent alternative is that there are independent minds not produced by the laws of nature.
#3 is subject to the same difficulties as #1 and #2 with the additional problem that it is less economical. The fact remains that one Supreme Being is the simplest and most comprehensive explanation.
- Everything is due to Chance
- Everything is due to Necessity
- Everything is due to Chance and Necessity
Theists believe God is inscrutable but the difference is that God explains the existence of knowledge whereas the universe doesn’t. Why should Ultimate Reality be inferior to, or less powerful than, the contents of the universe?
#2 implies that the laws of nature have no explanation and are ultimate facts which explain everything else. This assumption implies that all explanations are reducible to physical and chemical processes - yet there is no evidence that physical and chemical processes are aware of anything. The electrical currents in the brain are no different from any other type of electrical current. What would enable them to become aware of anything?
The laws of nature are descriptions of the regularities in the universe - which leads to a similar difficulty. What is describing them? It must be something they have produced. In that case what they have produced is more powerful than they are because it has insight. But then the cause is not proportioned to the effect - which is a fatal flaw in any explanation. The simplest and most cogent alternative is that there are independent minds not produced by the laws of nature.
#3 is subject to the same difficulties as #1 and #2 with the additional problem that it is less economical. The fact remains that one Supreme Being is the simplest and most comprehensive explanation.
P
Poof
Guest
I enjoy reading your posts tony, don’t stop! 
R
rossum
Guest
- We don’t know.
T
tonyrey
Guest
What?
T
tonyrey
Guest
Thanks!I enjoy reading your posts tony, don’t stop!
It’s good to know some one does - even though you don’t necessarily agree with everything I write. I may look back and disagree with myself on some points! But I’m sure Design is the most convincing explanation…
R
rossum
Guest
You listed three non-design theories. I listed a fourth, which is the standard default in science.What?
rossum
T
tonyrey
Guest
The existing default in both philosophy and science is our knowledge that some explanations are far more successful than others. Design is in this category because it corresponds to our personal experience and is far more fertile than theories which claim that we and other beings exist for no reason or purpose whatsoever.
Don’t Buddhists believe we exist for the purpose of spiritual development?
Strictly speaking, “We don’t know” is not an alternative to Design because it allows for that possibility.
R
rossum
Guest
I only have personal experience of design by material entities. I have no personal experience of design by non-material entities. Currently, design by non-material entities is in the “We don’t know” category.
We exist because we have failed up to now in our spiritual development. Getting reborn indicates our previous failure.
It is not an exclusive alternative, but it might be.
rossum
T
tonyrey
Guest
R
rossum
Guest
People are a compound of material and non-material parts.
We have failed up to now. We will succeed at some point in the future.
No.
No.
In science, epistemology is often more relevant than metaphysics.
rossum
- Status