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Xantippe
Guest
New thread?
People interested in the topic would find it easier to find if it has its own thread.
Practically speaking, don't we need to "test drive the car before we buy it?"
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People interested in the topic would find it easier to find if it has its own thread.
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thewanderer
Guest
Youâre probably right that it should be a new thread. So, Midwest88, if you want a more in depth answer to your question please start a new thread and I will gladly participate.
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EasterJoy
Guest
By âchaperoned,â some people merely mean they keep their meetings public or that they spend time alone only in places where they have a limited amount of privacy, in order to avoid the near occasions of sin that greater privacy can provide a couple in love.
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Xantippe
Guest
And some people take the concept of chaperoned dates waaaaay further.
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thewanderer
Guest
Yes, some do, but even for those who donât it gets a little out of hand. I know, it is extremely important to set boundaries so you donât put yourself in the near temptation of sin, but to set down as a rule that you can never be anywhere where you two are the only people around? Iâm sorry, but if you canât manage a car ride or a hiking trip without being seriously tempted to have sex then you shouldnât be dating (or courting or whatever you want to call it) at all. If you have that much of an issue with self-control it is going to be a huge issue if you do get married.
So, boundaries and rules/guidelines? Yes. The idea of never spending time together without at least a stranger around because otherwise you will lose control of yourselves sexually? No.
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HerCrazierHalf
Guest
I didnât get to âtest driveâ a lot of women but it was part of the expectation in dating when I was single. First of all, I think it is important to note that sex is not the most important aspect but has a certain level of importance to some of us.
in the past there have been good and promising relationships but those women chose to wait until marriage or some other milestone. While I respect their decision it seemed that they viewed sex as a duty to their future husband, and because of my personality I couldnât see myself with being intimate with someone who doesnât enjoy it too or complies out of a sense of Duty.
The time the sex was good but I thought I wasnât a good match I did get around to telling her she should consider dating other people. But one problem is that sex is many times more bonding for women than men.
Iâm convinced that sex (different than loving embrace of a committed relationship) is much more bonding for women than men. Sex doesnât hold together a good relationship.
Basically, the âtest driveâ concept doesnât work for everyone just as waiting is problematic for others. For me, attempting to wait turned out not to be viable and something Iâd have skipped if I could go back and do my younger years all over again.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Yes, I agree that when youâve truly reached marriageable age, there gets to be a point when the concept can get excessive. There is a degree of self-supervision that adults are typically expected to be able to manage in the West, whether male or female.
Iâm not saying that there is no one out there who does not know their degree of weakness better than I do, but only that it is excessive to require that any Christian not out with a spouse have someone else they know as a chaperone every time he or she spends any time at all with someone of the opposite sex, even in public. If someone judges themselves to be very weak, I wouldnât presume to correct them, provided they donât try to make what they feel they need into a universal requirement. (I would wonder about the readiness for marriage for someone who feels that vulnerable to sexual sin, yes.)
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Rau
Guest
Why do you say ânot viableâ?
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EasterJoy
Guest
Married people who will not spend time alone with anyone of the opposite sex except their spouse or relatives arenât so rare as that. It was always Billy Grahamâs rule. That implies is is not a HUGE issue. It is merely what some believe is prudent and careful with the affections of others. Not a universal rule, but not wrong-headed, either.
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Rau
Guest
I wonder if u misunderstood them? Perhaps they felt sex belonged in marriage, and the duty they felt to their future spouse was to keep themselves unused till then? Perhaps you mistook this duty to future husband as a lack of interest in sex? I can understand your ego may have been needlessly bruised.
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WildCatholic
Guest
So what is sexual compatability? I mean the last time I checked as long as you have a man and a woman and the parts work youâre sexually compatible. Yes I understand people have different needs (some might want sex every night, some might be okay once a month) but isnât that the case where you learn to sacrifice? People act like sexual compatibility is some major issue. Honestly Iâve never heard what the church has to say with it, but Iâm sure that iâm right. Honestly just sit down and talk about it if you are engaged but donât try it out. Seriously people act like theyâll die if they donât have sex.
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Peter_Plato
Guest
What an odd thing to say.
Donât rules become âothersâ rulesâ immediately when they no longer are our own and we no longer subscribe to them?
Are you also made bitter when you are compelled to obey the speed limit, parking signs or laws against theft, forgery or murder? Or, are all of these rules your own, and not othersâ, then?
Or is it merely the idea of ârulesâ that makes you bitter?
Perhaps that someone other than you is in control - that THEY make the rules and not you?
The thing is, though, we donât bring ourselves into being. We donât keep ourselves in being. We have no control over waking up every the morning. And we have very little to say about how the billions of cells in our bodies accomplish the myriad of tasks that they do.
I am not sure I have the capacity to write the rules that order all of reality, so the fact that order (the rules) comes from someone more knowing, good or powerful than me is a relief, actually, and in no way embittering - not to me, at least.
I guess it comes down to perspective. The comment still strikes me as odd, though.
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thewanderer
Guest
EasterJoy, I really donât think you disagree with me. Iâm not talking about people who decide they wonât spend large amounts of time alone with each other, Iâm talking about people who decide that they will get to the public place of their outing separately because they refuse to spend 5 min alone together in a car. Like I said, I completely understand and agree that appropriate precautions should be taken when dating, but if you canât even be together for 5-10 min out of other peopleâs sight without being seriously tempted to have sex then there is a serious issue that should prevent you from even thinking about marriage. That kind of lack of self-control does not belong in marriage.
ETA And Iâm not just using an extreme exaggeration so that I can bash on courtship, the people I have talked to who promote courtship insisted on the very scenario I presented above, that they would never allow themselves to even drive anywhere with the person they were courting unless someone else was in the car with them. So, if they wanted a more private outing (ie, lots of strangers around but no-one they know sitting listening in to their conversations) they would find a way to get to their public meeting place separately. And this was a very reasonable and rational girl, she clearly understood the importance of getting to know another person, not allowing yourself to be so swept away by emotions that you let yourself get into or stay in a bad relationship etc, she had a ton of good common sense. But it is one of the rules of courting that you never spend time together without someone else present because apparently everyone has so little self-control that that is the level of caution that is required to prevent people from having sex before marriage.
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sw85
Guest
What? You think women canât enjoy sex they wait for?
Also, you think itâs bad for women to give themselves sexually to the men they love and have given themselves to in marriage âout of a sense of dutyâ? So you think it is a good thing to encourage women to be miserly with their love with their own family in the name of⌠what, exactly? And what does this say about your âpersonalityâ?
I echo Peter Plato: what an odd thing to say. What an odd way to think. What an odd vision of married life.
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MacQ
Guest
Never occurred to you that waiting has nothing to do with whether one âenjoysâ it?
Or that casually laying down due to âexpectations in datingâ is more a sign of âdutyâ than saving itâŚduty to social norms? Is that a sign of putting a greater value on it than saving it for the marriage bed?
Or that your current difficulties in marriage have nothing to do with whether you âtest droveâ your wife or not? That they might have something to do with your attitudes (cause I might be wrong, but I kinda hear you saying âOk, I waitedâŚnow you owe meââŚso I can imagine thatâs not a great turn-on for your wife.).
Consider marital counseling.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
Sorry I didnât respond sooner! I stopped reading when the thread exploded. First, I want to make it clear that I am always against telling loved ones that there is something wrong with their significant other and they should leave. Trust me, if the couple stays together, that advice will never be forgiven.
I also find it interesting that in both of the cases above, the girl is the one that wants to wait. My response would be the same regardless of the gender of my child or their partner.
If my child wanted to wait until marriage, it is something that I would gently discourage, yes. I would also ask my child to really consider their feelings for their partner, because it may be that there is a problem that they arenât identifying that is keeping them closed off from sex. I would also encourage them to consider the feelings of their partner and whether or not they felt that they could have a full and complete relationship with that person. I would also ask them to carefully reflect on this stance to ensure that it is not stemming from a power trip or a need for control.
If my childâs partner wanted to wait, and my child came to me upset about it, I would not say âleaveâ. I would make it clear to my child that they have to do what they think is best, but that they need to consider a few things: if they give into waiting, is it going to end there, or will their partner always view themselves as the one in control of sex in the relationship even after marriage? Will they be able to trust this person after marriage? Is this the kind of relationship they want? And what other differences in values do they have with this person?
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HerCrazierHalf
Guest
Iâm saying that the ones Iâve met gave me the impression they were somewhat disinterested in sex or have built up a lot of negatively around it that I couldnât see it becoming positive. Obviously that doesnât seem to be the view here, and thatâs fine.
By âsense of dutyâ I mean a wife going along not because she too is in the mood but because she sees it as part of her promises to him. Simply put, the difference because she really wants to vs she feels she should.
A man and wife should give themselves to each other not because tradition, expectations, rules, or promises, but because they both desire to.
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LongingSoul
Guest
Men generally have the greater sexual need especially when the wife has a few children to tend to. A wife often make the effort to get in the mood when she really doesnât feel like it not out of duty but out of love for the husband and marriage. That is especially easy if the husband genuinely appreciates and esteems her for the woman she is, not just acts nice because he wants sex. A man who can genuinely love his wife without expecting sex from her, is a prince and you would love him all the more.
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HerCrazierHalf
Guest
Depends. In theory as described on CAF it shouldnât and I congratulate those who it works for. In practice there can be so much negativity associated with the act that it canât help but be a hindrance. Itâs different for different people.
Dating is a process to discern a partner for marriage (if one is looking towards marriage). We all have expectations. Waiting is an expectation too. More important than social norms are what the individuals in a relationship agree upon as this is also part of determining compatibility.
Difficulties? My marriage is pretty darn awesome.
Iâm happy I avoided the potential pitfalls out there.
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