D
DBT
Guest
'fraid so. So buck it up and grin and bear it.
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U
utunumsint
Guest
You know, the one thing that kind of freaks me out is that there is no fixed timeline for passive purgations. God asked St Therese to have only a few months, plus here brutal darkness during here final days with TB. Brother Lawrence got 10 years, and Mother Theresa got more than 50 years!!! I suppose this is to make us abandone our wills to divine providence, but it sounds so brutal.
Its nice to see that for some people there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel, like brother Lawrence. I also suppose that for those who go through such dark nights of the spirit, there would be an immediate entrance into heaven after death.
I’ve heard it suggested that all people must go through these purgations if they are to enter into heave, whether here in this life or in purgatory in the next.
God bless,
Ut
Its nice to see that for some people there is a bright light at the end of the tunnel, like brother Lawrence. I also suppose that for those who go through such dark nights of the spirit, there would be an immediate entrance into heaven after death.
I’ve heard it suggested that all people must go through these purgations if they are to enter into heave, whether here in this life or in purgatory in the next.
God bless,
Ut
D
DBT
Guest
While it’s good and well to be aware of things like the dark nights and even study about it; there’s a fine line before we begin dwelling on it to much. The risk we take in this regard is that our prayer will get bogged down into introspection and self-analysis.
And, yes, while these nights certainly sound brutal, we really have nothing to fear for it is a mark of His love. Souls going through these nights often have a profound sense of peace . . . even joy about it all. There’s even some of these souls right here on these very forums. The important thing to recognize is that God does not give us these interior trials until we’re ready for them . . . and His grace sustains us each step of the way.
And yes, too, it’s all about abandonment to His will. What’s really occuring is a kind of “death to self” . . . the duration and intensity is really a matter of how much deep-seated imperfection must be rooted out . . . and what God’s plans are for us. So don’t be intimidated by the example of our Saints. Their trials were “dramatic” because of their teaching and redemptive value to souls. We will go through many of the same things; but likely end up being “lesser Saints.”
Back to the theme of this thread, the beauty of Brother Lawrence is that he shows us how to go about the “work of the work” of our part of the equation in a very simple, non-theological way - the active nights. And what must be done passively is best left in God’s hands.
A good act of abandonment in that regard would be to not let fear of what might or might not happen disturb our peace or prevent us from us from moving forward in deepening our prayer life. He calls us all . . . again, fear not .
Hope that helps,
Dave
The risk we take in this regard is that our prayer will get bogged down into introspection and self-analysis.And, yes, while these nights certainly sound brutal, we really have nothing to fear for it is a mark of His love. Souls going through these nights often have a profound sense of peace . . . even joy about it all. There’s even some of these souls right here on these very forums.
The important thing to recognize is that God does not give us these interior trials until we’re ready for them . . . and His grace sustains us each step of the way.And yes, too, it’s all about abandonment to His will. What’s really occuring is a kind of “death to self” . . . the duration and intensity is really a matter of how much deep-seated imperfection must be rooted out . . . and what God’s plans are for us. So don’t be intimidated by the example of our Saints. Their trials were “dramatic” because of their teaching and redemptive value to souls. We will go through many of the same things; but likely end up being “lesser Saints.”
Back to the theme of this thread, the beauty of Brother Lawrence is that he shows us how to go about the “work of the work” of our part of the equation in a very simple, non-theological way - the active nights. And what must be done passively is best left in God’s hands.
A good act of abandonment in that regard would be to not let fear of what might or might not happen disturb our peace or prevent us from us from moving forward in deepening our prayer life. He calls us all . . . again, fear not .
Hope that helps,
Dave
I
InLight247
Guest
You just said what I want to say but could not articulate. Thanks.While it’s good and well to be aware of things like the dark nights and even study about it; there’s a fine line before we begin dwelling on it to much.
That is very true. I used to feel afraid of “dark night”, even think about it, but I have realized there is no need to fear, just like you said.
It is all to do with working toward holiness. Instead of pondering on how to reach the union we desire, it’s better to concentrate on enhancing the virtues, instead of figuring out which state we are in, it’s better to focus on running toward the ultimate goal - reach holiness in every area and completely die to self.
“Leave it to God” is the key. Fear not and be worry free!
A good act of abandonment in that regard would be to not let fear of what might or might not happen disturb our peace or prevent us from us from moving forward in deepening our prayer life. He calls us all . . . again, fear not .
You said it so well.
U
utunumsint
Guest
Thank you again for this. I have just finished reading John’s description of the errors that beginners are want to fall into and I now realize how much I need Gods help to be purified of these.While it’s good and well to be aware of things like the dark nights and even study about it; there’s a fine line before we begin dwelling on it to much.
And, yes, while these nights certainly sound brutal, we really have nothing to fear for it is a mark of His love. Souls going through these nights often have a profound sense of peace . . . even joy about it all. There’s even some of these souls right here on these very forums.
And yes, too, it’s all about abandonment to His will. What’s really occuring is a kind of “death to self” . . . the duration and intensity is really a matter of how much deep-seated imperfection must be rooted out . . . and what God’s plans are for us. So don’t be intimidated by the example of our Saints. Their trials were “dramatic” because of their teaching and redemptive value to souls. We will go through many of the same things; but likely end up being “lesser Saints.”
Back to the theme of this thread, the beauty of Brother Lawrence is that he shows us how to go about the “work of the work” of our part of the equation in a very simple, non-theological way - the active nights. And what must be done passively is best left in God’s hands.
A good act of abandonment in that regard would be to not let fear of what might or might not happen disturb our peace or prevent us from us from moving forward in deepening our prayer life. He calls us all . . . again, fear not .
Hope that helps,
Dave
Please pray for me that God would provide me the grace of this first dark night.
God bless,
Ut
D
DBT
Guest
Will do . . . and please do the same.
You’re doing great, UT, so don’t sweat it . . . just do it.
Dave.
PS - We’ll always be “beginners” in this. The moment we lose sight of that, He always reminds us.
M
Mystic_Warrior
Guest
I ordered this book from Amazon a week ago, along with* Imitation of Christ* by Kempis and Dark Night of the Soul by St. John of the Cross. I got them all for around $25.00.
I have started reading both Imitation and Practice the Presence and really enjoy both. I have found that Practice the Presence has resonated with me and am almost finished with it. I appreciate the simplicity of Brother Lawrence.
I have already found myself changing with the reading of these two books. And that’s a good thing. I cracked open Dark Night and it reads so differently from the other two books. I’ll be reading through it very soon. I’m glad to see that others have read Brother Lawrence’s wonderful book.
MW
D
DBT
Guest
It’s interesting you link these two classic works. Both are written in short little passages which are ideally suited to be read prayerfully . . . in the manner of lectio, IMO.
What I’ve found is that we’re never really “finished” with works like these. We can come back to them time after time, year after year and always find some new richness we never saw before.
Change is what it’s all about and I’m very happy Brother Lawrence has made such an impact on you!
Dave
M
Mystic_Warrior
Guest
I have a login with Amazon and when I log in it shows recommended books for me. What popped up in the devotional section were these 3 books. I felt led by God to buy these and I did. I’ve been praying for quite a while about getting closer to Him through my trials and tribulations. I believe this was an answered prayer.
I agree, yes. Brother Lawrence’s book is such a simple and short book that I can see myself reading it once a month or so.
Change is what it’s all about and I’m very happy Brother Lawrence has made such an impact on you!
Yes, in such a short amount my demeanor has changed and I’m watching my actions, speech and thoughts, not as simply a matter of self-control, but of doing everything for love of God and avoiding offense to Him in what I say and do.Dave
I’ve also started to read through the Bible every night with my children - 1 chapter a night through the gospel of St. Matthew. That alone has humbled me and reminded me to practice the presence of God.
Thank you Dave.
Peace…
MW
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