Practicing gay catholics shouldn't receive communion

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That just sounds Orwellian to me.
It’s not Orwellian. It’s about thousands of years of sacred traditions and teachings inspired by the Holy Spirit, including also many infallible doctrines. Those inspired sacred traditions and teaching, along with Scripture, make up the Deposit of Faith of our Church.

The Magisterium is not Orwellian. The Magisterium is a precious gift from God. It is through the Magisterium that Christ ensures that the light of his teaching will keep shining on mankind throughout all generations. It is because of the Holy Spirit working through the Church’s Magisterium that the Church can be a true light in the darkness of this world.

Individualism leads to every man, through his own imperfect logic, prejudices and life experiences, figuring things out for himself. This leads to almost endless different view of what is true and what is right. One man’s ‘truth’ will contradict another man’s ‘truth’. How can this be proper when we believe that there is only one Truth and that that Truth comes from God?
 
90Domer;10502088:
But I need to say, I do not like when newcomers arrive trying to convince Catholics of the errors of their thinking, especially if the person self-identifies as Catholic./QUOTE]

I’ve been Catholic all my life. Because you have been on this forum longer than me does not make you any more, or less, Catholic than me.
Did I write that? Did I accuse you of that in my writings? The answer is no on both accounts, and you are trying to derail what I wrote by attacking me personally instead of sticking to the point.

Rabbit, you seem to have come to this forum loaded with a bunch of SSA apologist tactics shrouded in the thought that you are purely espousing “free thinking.” You have not answered or even considered looking into the references provided to you on what the RCC teaches. You have dodged the question often–both mine and others–or you have responded to the question with a personal attack. I know that this is very typical of SSA apologists, because they know they cannot upend natural law or the truth of what the RCC teaches. They have no other choice than to resort to other tactics because, after all, the truth stands and speaks for itself.

So what is your point of being here then? Are you still attempting to convert people over to your rationale on the subject?

I truly worry about your Catechism when you are so quick to poo-poo what others have told you about Catholic teachings. I mean, what have your learned about the Church? The concepts (trusting and following the teachings of the Church fathers) you are rejecting are pretty fundamental. You have me baffled on this one.
 
It’s not Orwellian. It’s about thousands of years of sacred traditions and teachings inspired by the Holy Spirit, including also many infallible doctrines. Those inspired sacred traditions and teaching, along with Scripture, make up the Deposit of Faith of our Church.

The Magisterium is not Orwellian. The Magisterium is a precious gift from God. It is through the Magisterium that Christ ensures that the light of his teaching will keep shining on mankind throughout all generations. It is because of the Holy Spirit working through the Church’s Magisterium that the Church can be a true light in the darkness of this world.

Individualism leads to every man, through his own imperfect logic, prejudices and life experiences, figuring things out for himself. This leads to almost endless different view of what is true and what is right. One man’s ‘truth’ will contradict another man’s ‘truth’. How can this be proper when we believe that there is only one Truth and that that Truth comes from God?
Thank you Brendan. You said it better than I ever could. God bless.
 
Both are considered to be grave sins, and BOTH are considered to be morally disordered.

CCC2351 “Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes”

The above also defines heterosexual sex outside marriage ((which is considered to be fornication) and use of artificial contraception (both inside and outside of marriage) as disordered.

CCC 2396 “Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices”. To be guilty of any of these offences, unrepented, bars you from receiving Communion. Homosexual acts are not singled out as being worse than the others.

Both homosexual sex, and heterosexual sex outside marriage represent a complete separation from God, both equally bar the unrepented sinner from receiving Communion. A heterosexual person who is living with (and having sexual relations with) a person of the opposite sex receiving Communion is just as wrong as a homosexual man living with (and having sexual relations with) another man and receiving Communion. Both are barred from doing so.

We need to be very careful that, when taking a stance against homosexual acts, we also take an equal stance against heterosexual acts outside marriage. To fail to do so is to be guilty of prejudice and discrimination.
"2357 … Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law… "

See, but I do not think that pointing out that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered is discrimination or prejudice (the reason intercourse outside of marriage is morally disordered is not because of the type of act, the type of act is not intrinsically disordered, but because it is outside marriage, thus making use of sexuality for the wrong reasons.)

Of course they are both wrong, of course we should not receive Communion if we have participated in either act, but this does not mean that both acts are identical. I think it is helpful to identify the fact that they are different.

Part of the campaign going on out there is effort to equate homosexual acts to heterosexual acts, but they are simply not the same. The Church recognizes they are not the same, there is no prejudice in this.

“(also from 2357) They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”

The Church talks against prejudice as well; about love and compassion:
“2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.”
 
Once again, you are avoiding the questions I and several other posters have asked you. Can’t have a proper debate if its always one-sided.
I’ve noticed that he either bolts or answers the questions with an unfair attack. Methinks that resembles someone with an agenda and not someone wanting to debate.
 
"2357 … Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law… "

See, but I do not think that pointing out that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered is discrimination or prejudice (the reason intercourse outside of marriage is morally disordered is not because of the type of act, the type of act is not intrinsically disordered, but because it is outside marriage, thus making use of sexuality for the wrong reasons.)

Of course they are both wrong, of course we should not receive Communion if we have participated in either act, but this does not mean that both acts are identical. I think it is helpful to identify the fact that they are different.

Part of the campaign going on out there is effort to equate homosexual acts to heterosexual acts, but they are simply not the same. The Church recognizes they are not the same, there is no prejudice in this.

“(also from 2357) They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.”

The Church talks against prejudice as well; about love and compassion:
“2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.”
Thank you for posting this, but I kind of think Rabbit still views me as a homophobic bigot.
 
See, but I do not think that pointing out that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered is discrimination or prejudice (the reason intercourse outside of marriage is morally disordered is not because of the type of act, the type of act is not intrinsically disordered, but because it is outside marriage, thus making use of sexuality for the wrong reasons.)
You would also agree then that, like homosexual acts, masturbation is also intrinsically disordered because of the type of act it is?
 
…According to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies ‘must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided’. - Pope Benedict XVI

I don’t think obsessing about sex does the church any favours.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. - John 8:7

People should remember Christ did not teach people to judge others. He lived with sinners and died for them.
Your last sentence is somewhat of a concern for me as this seems to unfortunately be a misunderstanding of how Christians are to view sin. SIN is why Jesus came to die for us so SIN IS SERIOUS. Yes, we all are sinners but sinners who continually seek forgiveness and repent from sin. Jesus never wants us to remain in sin ever. The Church is very clear on what is and isn’t sin and desires for us to repent and walk toward holiness with His grace to help us. This “judging others” is so misunderstood. Judgement belongs to God alone, however we have been given a clear guide to follow and must be there to make sure No one looses their way. That is the love we must have in helping one another.

My love in Him,
mlz
 
You would also agree then that, like homosexual acts, masturbation is also intrinsically disordered because of the type of act it is?
From the Catechism:
2352 "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138
 
I always thought Christ taught us to be loving and tolerant. Not to judge others. Not to condemn others and to accept everyone. I also don’t think the obsession with some in the church with sex is particularly helpful. I sometimes wish as God grants us all the gift of further enlightenment, some people in the church could keep up.
If you read the bible, you’ll see the clarity God has given, it’s part of the old covenant and the new covenant. The covenant is the agreement we make with God.
 
Your last sentence is somewhat of a concern for me as this seems to unfortunately be a misunderstanding of how Christians are to view sin. SIN is why Jesus came to die for us so SIN IS SERIOUS. Yes, we all are sinners but sinners who continually seek forgiveness and repent from sin. Jesus never wants us to remain in sin ever. The Church is very clear on what is and isn’t sin and desires for us to repent and walk toward holiness with His grace to help us. This “judging others” is so misunderstood. Judgement belongs to God alone, however we have been given a clear guide to follow and must be there to make sure No one looses their way. That is the love we must have in helping one another.

My love in Him,
mlz
Yes, I am thankful that you have reminded me to mention that the sinners approached Jesus and Jesus said that they should not sin again. He offered a 2nd chance, but it wasn’t for them to be defeatist about their sin and expect to sin in perpetuity. Maybe this misunderstanding is a lot widespread than I estimated.
 
Yes, I am thankful that you have reminded me to mention that the sinners approached Jesus and Jesus said that they should not sin again. He offered a 2nd chance, but it wasn’t for them to be defeatist about their sin and expect to sin in perpetuity. Maybe this misunderstanding is a lot widespread than I estimated.
Are you saying that people forget the part that Jesus said go and sin no more? If so, I agree that that part seems to be forgotten often. Or is it forgotten on purpose?
 
…According to the teaching of the Church, men and women with homosexual tendencies ‘must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided’. - Pope Benedict XVI

I don’t think obsessing about sex does the church any favours.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. - John 8:7

People should remember Christ did not teach people to judge others. He lived with sinners and died for them.
That quote from Pope Benedict is about people with tendencies, not practicing homosexuals. Those are two completely different things. And yes, we can make judgements or certain issues. If we couldn’t there would be no Church.
 
Are you saying that people forget the part that Jesus said go and sin no more? If so, I agree that that part seems to be forgotten often. Or is it forgotten on purpose?
Yes, I’ve made this thread before on another forum with students who were catholic, their views were ‘we all sinners etc’ as the loophole to this logic, but the ‘sin no more’ bit caps/blocks the loophole.
 
90Domer;10502088:
But I need to say, I do not like when newcomers arrive trying to convince Catholics of the errors of their thinking, especially if the person self-identifies as Catholic./QUOTE]

I’ve been Catholic all my life. Because you have been on this forum longer than me does not make you any more, or less, Catholic than me.
Being a catholic is not an ethnicity, or an inheritance, it’s your belief and how you live your life in relation to the new covenant (the agreement you have with Christ). So if your belief does not identify with the central moral teachings of the church, then technically - are you sure you have catholic beliefs? The protestant church place less value on morality, that’s what distinguishes catholics from protestants who believe in faith-alone. And maybe your position might be in alignment with them?
 
I don’t see how people who are in a loving relationship hurts anyone else. Whether they are gay, straight or whatever. I think the most important thing is to be in a loving relationship, just sleeping around, I don’t think that is particularly healthy. But how can two people in love be classed as sinful? I know this is not a widespread view in Catholicism, but I just don’t understand how love can be wrong.
Because we are to love God before all else. God created us male and female for a reason. Who of us is willing to tell God he made a mistake. Now before the multitude of “you are a sinner too” posts start, I will tell you that I know I’m a sinner. I’m probably a worse sinner than most if not all, but that doesn’t absolve me of trying to do what God wants and follow his law. Pray often and make sure what is called love isn’t actually lust. 🤷
 
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