Practising Catholic Gay Couple?

[elts1956]

Here’s something I just don’t get: 2 professionals who attend Mass,they’re involved in the parish & hold positions of great responsibility in the deeply Catholic community, well respected & each previously married with several kids.
The trouble is that they live together & describe each other in public as their " life partner."
Noone’s assuming they live chastely together, but I suppose that’s an option to consider in charity.
This is in a relative’s diocese & they claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there. I’m confused, but a little suspicious that it may also be this wealthy couple’s professional skills,& generous donations to the Church & community that makes their acceptance into an otherwise conservative Catholic environment possible.
I truly believe in charity & believing the best of folks. Maybe you can live chastely yet still publicly proclaim yourselves a gay couple? Still sounds like an occasion of scandal… I’m confused.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Appreciate it.
As far as I know “life partner” is Gay-Speak for homosexual co-habitation. But perhaps I’m wrong & these folks live as celibates? Common sense would say no, though, and it does sound like scandal.If they were angry at the Church, I’d get it, but they represent themselves as faithful Catholics. So, one of us at least is confused…or misunderstanding something.

Don’t let tolerance, a real biggy in some Parishes today, overcome common sense. This type of relationship is NOT normal.

 

[elts1956]

We have no right to judge. Jesus told us not to judge. God knows all things; “Have no anxiety at all, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, make your requests known to God. Then the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.”

Yes, homosexual persons are called to be chaste. This is slightly off topic. But just as an observation, when gays are chaste we sort of have a deer in the headlights approach. Like, really, cool. Nothing more. But I was thinking about this the other day. How wonderful & holy these people must be to deny their essential nature for Christ. I bet they have a lot to offer us in their spiritual journey.

I am still supporting the gay couple. When I was growing up (a billion years ago), most gay couples had no problem worshiping without fear or gossip. We all knew who they were, went to their houses, worked together on parish related projects. What is it about our church now that seems to want to push people away. It’s getting strange & I pray that it stops. Christ never came to us as the wagging finger of a church lady.

Gays who are not chaste are just as guilty of sin as unmarried straights who indulge in sexual activity before TRADITIONAL marriage. No we don’t point fingers, but neither do we have to tolerate their “in your face” behavior and beliefs if they are not chaste.

 

[elts1956]

First of all - Lets be clear.
There is no such thing as a Practicing catholic (actively) gay couple.

That being said, if these people are living a celibate life they are not sinning. However it would be better for them and for the community if they lived apart.

The statement you make above that, “This is in a relative’s diocese & they claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there.” **The Catechism **says this:
Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. **Under no circumstances can they be approved. **

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

By the above we can see that the church sees homosexuality as a grave matter. She also declares taht it cannot be condoned in any way.
So
If they are living in sin, and this is being tolerated/glossed over/condoned by the priest then this priest will have much to answer for at judgement. He is permitting a sinful situation to continue without addressing it effectively.

For those who, “claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there”, you might want to show them what the official church teaching is on the matter. That way they cannot plead ignorance.

NOTE: All of my statements are based on the information provided in the OP. None of us can know what the perople involved, priest, the deacons, parishoners etc., might be doing to help this “couple”.

 

[elts1956]

First of all - Lets be clear.
There is no such thing as a Practicing catholic (actively) gay couple.

That being said, if these people are living a celibate life they are not sinning. However it would be better for them and for the community if they lived apart.

The statement you make above that, “This is in a relative’s diocese & they claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there.” **The Catechism **says this:
Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. **Under no circumstances can they be approved. **

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

By the above we can see that the church sees homosexuality as a grave matter. She also declares taht it cannot be condoned in any way.
So
If they are living in sin, and this is being tolerated/glossed over/condoned by the priest then this priest will have much to answer for at judgement. He is permitting a sinful situation to continue without addressing it effectively.

For those who, “claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there”, you might want to show them what the official church teaching is on the matter. That way they cannot plead ignorance.

NOTE: All of my statements are based on the information provided in the OP. None of us can know what the perople involved, priest, the deacons, parishoners etc., might be doing to help this “couple”.

CrackerMom,
At the very least they are scandal to the congregation; its not you reading into things, it is in fact language that today we could very easily see what they mean. The other ideas about needing all the people we can get makes no sense if these people live outside the life of Christ and have continue to do so in spite of Church teaching. Unfortunatgely other Prostestant denominations have given into allowing sinful relationships and celebrating it to look popular and do well in the eyes of the people, as well as increase congregations, but not please God.

I second your statements.

 

[elts1956]

I’m not condoning two same-sex attracted persons engaging in sexual activity, but I do find it very interesting that the paragraph I bolded and emphasized above is usually ignored by people in the Church today.

BUT acceptance of homosexual behavior should not be tolerated. “Life partner” indeed.

 

[elts1956]

I’m not condoning two same-sex attracted persons engaging in sexual activity, but I do find it very interesting that the paragraph I bolded and emphasized above is usually ignored by people in the Church today.

If I was a member of this parish and was scandalized by this situation (which I would be), I would talk about it in confession with the pastor. I would tell him that I can’t help wondering about the situation and I’m concerned that my wondering might be leading to a sin against charity.

At the very least, I will have let the priest know that I am scandalized and will have satisfied my responsibility to let him know. It will provide an opportunity for dialogue with the priest and perhaps I will gain some understanding that will ease my mind (or not).

I would talk to the priest face to face. In that way the seal of Confession will not be in place.

 

[elts1956]

Oh come on.
dignityusa.org/

Read what the catechism has to say about sexualy active homosexuality. Oh com on, really.

 

[elts1956]

Oh come on.
dignityusa.org/

This is what I fear as well. I am looking to learn more about & possibly convert to the Catholic Church, however I hesitate to do this when I hear stories of this type of behavior ignored in the church. I do recognize the Catholic Church as the first and probably the true Church, but why bother when many I know are Catholic and aren’t practicing, the priests and others fall in sin continuously, etc. It’s very frustrating to try and strengthen myself and faith, I’m not sure where to go. This type of thread only disheartens me further.

I hope you continue to read and learn about our Catholic faith. It is a beautiful, whole and complete belief if it is accepted with all the truth it has to offer. I have a suspicion that even when I was growing up in the 40s and 50s, much of the scandal, apostate Bishops and priests etc. existed at that time, but it wasn’t made public. Now with all our technology one can’t sneeze without someone saying “God Bless”. We hopefully can realize that many more positives have come with the Catholic Faith than negatives.

It has been such a let down for me to realize all of our clergy are human. Many are truly less than the angels. I don’t approve of the behavior of many, nor of their non support of the Truths of the Church and what many of them have done to give scandal to my Faith. But there are still good men and women out there who will guide you home if you let them. Ask, study, discriminate, but accept there will be human failings. Above all pray to our Lord for the strength of right virtue and clarity of mind and heart to lead you home.

 

[graceandglory]

Read what the catechism has to say about sexualy active homosexuality. Oh com on, really.

context, context, context.

 

[elts1956]

Cracker Mom,

Don’t you have anything better to do at church than ponder the morality of others?

One doesn’t have to ponder very hard if a situation is right in your face. I have no idea whether this “gay” couple indulge in homosexual sex, or not, but for them to cast doubt upon themselves smacks of arrogance and asking for trouble.

 

[elts1956]

Indeed, one must on one hand consider the doctrine of truth the Church rightly tries to uphold, and on the other hand, pastoral care for the sinners who fail to meet the standard. If the Church does the former without the latter, then we are no better than the Pharisees who condemned Jesus.

All of us, in some area of our lives or other, fail to live up to the lofty standard expected of us.

Why the need to single out homosexuals? Because many of them try to justify their sins? We all are inclined to do that for our sins whatever they are.

Indeed they are human beings but warped in their sexual proclivities. Everytime I hear of instances such as Cracker Mom describes I see the action as being one of a challange. “Look, here I am, I’m Gay”. “You are unchristian if you don’t accept me unconditionally”. Tolerance only goes so far. Let them keep their life styles to themselves and not in my face.

 

[elts1956]

Indeed, one must on one hand consider the doctrine of truth the Church rightly tries to uphold, and on the other hand, pastoral care for the sinners who fail to meet the standard. If the Church does the former without the latter, then we are no better than the Pharisees who condemned Jesus.

All of us, in some area of our lives or other, fail to live up to the lofty standard expected of us.

Why the need to single out homosexuals? Because many of them try to justify their sins? We all are inclined to do that for our sins whatever they are.

context, context, context.

What you don’t have a Catechism??

 

[Qoeleth]

Let us be perfectly clear. If these practising homosexuals are admitted to Communion, the priest is committing a crime against Church law. He (the priest) is out of communion with the Holy Church. You should have words with the priest. If he persists in acting contrary to Divine Law by admitting these people to communion, you should complain to your Bishop. It is very simple. Scripture can help us out:

“If a man lie with another man, as with a woman, both have committed an abomination, they shall be put to death, their blood is upon their own heads.”

Some would want to change this- to throw out all morality and decency, and Law. But, on the contrary, Our Lord said,
“Think not that I have come to destroy the Law. For verily I say, till heaven and earth shall pass away, not one dot or stroke of the Law shall be passed away.”

 

[pnewton]

Let us be perfectly clear. If these practising homosexuals are admitted to Communion, the priest is committing a crime against Church law. He (the priest) is out of communion with the Holy Church.

Such a priest is not following Church teaching, to be sure, but I do not think he becomes out of communion. That only happens in a narrow set of circumstances outlined in canon law.

 

[elts1956]

Such a priest is not following Church teaching, to be sure, but I do not think he becomes out of communion. That only happens in a narrow set of circumstances outlined in canon law.

Hi pnewton. But isn’t there something about a millstone and scandal. I think this priest is a goner until he starts following what I hope he was taught about the truths of the Church and its laws.

 

[pnewton]

Hi pnewton. But isn’t there something about a millstone and scandal. I think this priest is a goner until he starts following what I hope he was taught about the truths of the Church and its laws.

I would fear for the soul of such a priest, to be sure. I was referring to communion with the Church, though. such things are a matter of canon law.

 

[graceandglory]

What you don’t have a Catechism??

elts,
if you refer to the context and what I was responding to, you would realize that you and I are both on the same team. I have four catechisms, a St. Joseph, and a Compendium. I teach Catholic teaching on marriage and sexuality. Just pay attention to the thread.

 

[AndyF]

pablo rafael:

Sorry for the late response, I was called away.

It is wrong to condemn anyone, and no one except Jesus and the Father has that power to do that, besides no one is ever in a condemned state while in exile here on earth. But we can fraternally correct in charity, and that is what we should do for these people.

We need to turn away from the mindset that they can never change and ARE that way. But I see you are an avid reader and believer of scripture and that is to your credit. This show of determination on your part implies that you recognize a Dietic sanction to what is said in it, therefore you know then that God would not want us to pick and choose from it whatever suits our purpose.

That’s good news because you will note in Romans that Peter inspires his people to turn away from this lifestyle, and in Leviticus God doesn’t mince words and tells us directly, taking the extra effort to tell us to what degree it offends Him. (Remarkable to what extent God loves us,hey!)

But part of that inspiration comes from the fact we Trust God, and therefore God would not lie to us and would not resort to trickery, so we know at least He doesn’t see kindly to this activity and we need to avoid it. The overall message, ie: the number of times it is mentioned and the severity of the offense, tells us that it could only be something temporary, otherwise God is tricking us and loves to see us tormented in this fixed state we can’t get out of.

In addressing this issue we need to ask ourselves, do we Trust God(no trickery, we can change), or we don’t trust God(why change, he likes to see us in a paradox). We choose Trust of God, therefore we are left with the only conclusion that they CAN change if they wished.

Andy

 

[elts1956]

Oh come on.
dignityusa.org/

Went to the website dignityusa.org. I came away totally confused. What I see is the promotion of homosexual marriage as being as valid as heterosexual marriages. A homosexual couple in a so called “marriage” can be chaste?

 

[Podo2005]

I guess I tend to think about my own morality and am not really focussed on others’. If this couple or whatever they are are confused or simply don’t care about what the Church teaches then that is their deal- and, perhaps, the deal of their priest.

Seems like a busy-body.

On the contrary, it is a noble & charitable thing( a spiritual work of mercy) to care about the morality of others. Indeed we must look after ourselves and make sure we are in good relationship with Christ, but part of our mission as Catholic Christians is to proclaim the Gospel.

If I love you then I ought to care about these things… I don’t want your relationship with Christ ruined because of a lack of knowledge about morality. Of course I can’t force you to accept what the church teaches, but I see nothing wrong with pointing out that you are doing something wrong…

Your brother in Christ,
Zachary