Praise and Glory of His name or God's name?

[SalesianSDB]

I started attending Mass in my university chapel and when it comes to the point of the Mass where the congregation says, “For the praise and glory of His name, for our good and the good of all His Church” some say, “For the praise and glory of God’s name, for our good and the good of all God’s Church.”

Which is correct?

 

[TheMc]

I started attending Mass in my university chapel and when it comes to the point of the Mass where the congregation says, “For the praise and glory of His name, for our good and the good of all His Church” some say, “For the praise and glory of God’s name, for our good and the good of all God’s Church.”

Which is correct?

…for the praise and glory of his name, for our good, and the good of all his Church is correct. The other one is because some people are trying to avoid calling god a masculine pronoun. This would sometimes happen in the gloria, though I think it’s finally died out (“peace to God’s people on earth”).

By the way, as of november, this section of the Mass will read as follows:

1. Standing at the middle of the altar, facing the people, extending and then joining his hands, he says:
   
   Pray, brethren (brothers and sisters),
   that my sacrifice and yours
   may be acceptable to God,
   the almighty Father.​
   
   The people rise and reply:
   May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands
   for the praise and glory of his name,
   for our good
   and the good of all his holy Church.​

Note that unless incense is used, the people do not rise until the priest finishes his text. Interesting…

 

[YoungTradCath]

It’s an attempt at inclusive language.

 

[JGMendes4049]

Note that unless incense is used, the people do not rise until the priest finishes his text. Interesting…

What about when incense is used?

It’s so awkward when everyone else stands up during the Lavabo and I’m just sitting there awkwardly until he finishes the Orate, fratres.

 

[TheMc]

What about when incense is used?

When incense is used at the offertory, the people stand to be incensed earlier (which is usually during the lavabo, because the priest is incenced, then the thurifer and the priest go separate ways: the thurifer goes to incence the people, and the priest washes his hands). While it isn’t directly stipulated, it would seem pretty weird to sit back down just for the priest to pray the Orate, fratres.

Did that make sense?

 

[TheMc]

When incense is used at the offertory, the people stand to be incensed earlier (which is usually during the lavabo, because the priest is incenced, then the thurifer and the priest go separate ways: the thurifer goes to incence the people, and the priest washes his hands). While it isn’t directly stipulated, it would seem pretty weird to sit back down just for the priest to pray the Orate, fratres.

Did that make sense?

Let me explain that in another way.

Priest incences altar
priest is incenced by deacon (or thurifer)
priest washes hands while the other concelebrants, choir clergy, and finally the congregation are incensed. Each of those specific groups stand before they are incensed.
After the congregation has been incensed, they would remain standing (because of common sense), and the priest would go into the Orate, fratres.

 

[Elizium23]

It’s an attempt at inclusive language.

It’s an attempt at vertical inclusive language, which is always wrong; compare with horizontally inclusive language, which is something like: ‘brothers and sisters’ instead of ‘brethren’, which is acceptable when context or societal norms do not make it clear that the latter is inclusive of women.

Vertical inclusive language denies the Fatherhood of God (usually), or the Sonship of Jesus or the masculinity of the Holy Spirit. It has been revealed to us through Scripture and through Tradition that the three Persons of the Trinity are male, just as the Church and the Blessed Virgin Mary are female. These are the archetypes God has chosen for us and our liturgical language reflects that.

 

[PacoG]

“For the praise and glory of God’s name, for our good and the good of all God’s Church.”

Interestingly enough, the rejected translation (before the Vox Clara Commission and Liturgiam Authenticum) had this exact phrasing. The Vatican rejected that translation, issued Liturgiam Authenticum and appointed Vox Clara.

That travesty of translation was:

May God accept the sacrifice at your hands, for the praise and glory of God’s name, for our good and the good of all God’s Church.

And then there was the lame translation attempt by some American bishops…change it to second person to avoid masculine nouns:

Lord: accept the sacrifice at your priest’s hands, for the praise and glory of your name, for our good and the good of all your Church.

 

[Phemie]

Interestingly enough, the rejected translation (before the Vox Clara Commission and Liturgiam Authenticum) had this exact phrasing. The Vatican rejected that translation, issued Liturgiam Authenticum and appointed Vox Clara.

That travesty of translation was:
May God accept the sacrifice at your hands, for the praise and glory of God’s name, for our good and the good of all God’s Church. And then there was the lame translation attempt by some American bishops…change it to second person to avoid masculine nouns:
Lord: accept the sacrifice at your priest’s hands, for the praise and glory of your name, for our good and the good of all your Church.

This is what was said in the 2002 document by Jorge A. Cardinal Medina Estévez, Prefect, and [Archbishop] Francisco Pio Tamburrino, Secretary “Observations on the English-language translation of the Roman Missal”:

C. After the Orate, fratres, the people’s response Suscipiat Dominus sacrificium de manibus tuis . . . has been distorted, apparently for purposes of “inclusive language”: “May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of God’s name, for our good, and the good of all the Church.” The insertion of the possessive God’s gives the impression that the Lord who accepts the sacrifice is different from God whose name is glorified by it. The Church is no longer his Church, and is no longer called holy * a flaw in the previous translation that one might have hoped would be corrected.

 

[JGMendes4049]

Let me explain that in another way.

Priest incences altar
priest is incenced by deacon (or thurifer)
priest washes hands while the other concelebrants, choir clergy, and finally the congregation are incensed. Each of those specific groups stand before they are incensed.
After the congregation has been incensed, they would remain standing (because of common sense), and the priest would go into the Orate, fratres.

Oh, okay. Incense is used so rarely here people don’t know what to do.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Oh, okay. Incense is used so rarely here people don’t know what to do.

All the more reason to use it at every Solemnity.

 

[TheMc]

All the more reason to use it at every Solemnity.

And every Sunday, for at least one Mass. My parish uses incence at 2 of the 4 english OF Masses, and often at the 1 EF Mass (assuming the music can be arranged for, so a missa cantata can be celebrated). They’re old pros.

 

[JGMendes4049]

YoungTradCath;8563947:

All the more reason to use it at every Solemnity.

And every Sunday, for at least one Mass. My parish uses incense at 2 of the 4 English OF Masses, and often at the 1 EF Mass (assuming the music can be arranged for, so a Missa Cantata can be celebrated). They’re old pros.

Ha! You’d have better luck having the Holy Father dogmatically define that every church must have daily Solemn High Mass in the Extraordinary Form. Yeah, people are that hostile to it here.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Ha! You’d have better luck having the Holy Father dogmatically define that every church must have daily Solemn High Mass in the Extraordinary Form. Yeah, people are that hostile to it here.

More immature hate. I just don’t understand it. I really don’t. As a convert, I can “see” why people hate Latin and tradition, but I can’t understand it. The logic does not flow. My mind works a bit like a circuit board, and this whole hater attitude that many Catholics have is like someone just poured water all over my brain.

Anyways, I don’t know if I’d want to smell incense at mass weekly. It seems like it would lose its special character that way. As I said, at Solemnities and several other regionally-important days, perhaps.

 

[JGMendes4049]

Oh, okay. Incense is used so rarely here people don’t know what to do.

Okay, so today we used incense , and as I was incensing the people, they all knew to stand up. I was like, whoa. It was really weird; they never stood up for the incense before. They even bowed.

 

[promethius]

More immature hate. I just don’t understand it. I really don’t. As a convert, I can “see” why people hate Latin and tradition, but I can’t understand it. The logic does not flow. My mind works a bit like a circuit board, and this whole hater attitude that many Catholics have is like someone just poured water all over my brain.

I understand why… I’d certainly have a lot more appreciation for the EF if the people who advocated it were generally less… well… rabid about it.

(And I’ll note for the moderators that I’m referring to no one in particular on this forum about this point, merely a general observation based on the behaviors of the EF crowd in my area)