Praise and Worship choruses during Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter twosweetgirls
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

twosweetgirls

Guest
I know this has been discussed many times here, and I’ve even added my voice of dissent that praise/worship choruses are sung during the Mass. Well, I just am so disappointed now, because in my church the regular songbooks have been replaced in the pews. . .

with brand-spanking new, three-ring binders of nothing but praise/worship choruses. :nope: In every single pew, and my parish is huge. “Shout to the Lord”, “Days of Elijah”, “Lord I Lift Your Name on High”, “God Is In Control”, the dreaded “Lilies of the Valley Amen”, it’s all there. In fact, the regular songbooks have been relegated to a portable bookshelf that people barely notice as they walk in.

What a shame.
 
That is a shame, especially since this kind of music, in my opinion, is totally incompatible with the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Who is the publisher of the songbooks?
 
If these binders contain photocopies, you may have a simple method to rid yourself of the problem by reporting your parish to the publisher(s) for copyright infringement.

As for the aesthetic of the music itself, I have always been a strong proponent to a balanced approach. If music is theologically sound, then its use is OK, however a balanced diet for the parish is advised. Many churches have a “traditional” choir and a “contemporary” choir, and the Masses they lead music at known to the congregation. If Awesome God is your thing, then you go to the Mass that has the contemporary choir (not that I think Awesome God is necessarily appropriate).

Or, you strive to create a balance within the Mass itself. Four “congregational” singing pieces… Pick two hymns and two more contemporary pieces.

The most important thing is that the music be theologically sound.
 
Lord I Lift Your Name on High?? My God, that’s a favorite of the Word Faith protestant church I attended for awhile! It’s disturbing. Don’t get me wrong- I like Christian rock, punk, and metal. But I wouldn’t want to hear it at Mass! Why can’t they have a regular mass, and then maybe a separate ‘praise & worship’ thing afterward, at least? As young as I am, I still don’t want Mass to be ‘spiced up’ with modern music. I want it to feel as solemn and prayerful as possible. I’m going to worship God, not hear a rock concert or otherwise be ‘entertained’.
 
This is a very natural outcome of the Novus Ordo, which is a protestantized version of the True Catholic Mass. Why would one be shocked when protestant songs are introduced into a protestant-leaning Mass?
 
I’m not sure what “praise and worship choruses” are. 🙂

Never heard of any of those songs.

Guess I am fortunate? 😃
 
Part of the issue is conflicting aethetics. I do not like Charles Ives’s Variations on America at all, but I confess it is a great work and a cornerstone of the wind band repertoire. I even heard a phenomenal performance of it over the weekend. I still dislike the work.

However, we have a stronger system of “checks” for music in the Church than instrumental music education does. Theology, instrumental restrictions, and stylistic propriety guidelines are all given by the Church.

If a “Praise and Worship” song violates any one of the above checks (or more), then it shouldn’t be done at Mass, or it should be altered (within legal limits) to conform. Otherwise, it shouldn’t be done. Unfortunately, we have a lot of music directors in parishes who simply don’t have the knowledge of the above. Their pastors don’t push it on them because they believe that rocking the boat with music too much will cause the musician(s) to quit, and then who would lead the music?

Pastors will give on these items, or they themselves happen to like the music, or worse yet, they’re just glad to see the “youth enjoying the Mass.”

[Edited] I’m the full time organist for our local Lutheran church. They sing a very healthy diet of “traditional” style Christian hymns (some are denomination-specific). The only “contemporary” style song they sang yesterday was On Eagle’s Wings. Otherwise, all traditional hymns. More so than our Catholic church sang on Saturday night at Mass.
 
It is a shame, especially when one looks at the many documents coming out of Rome dealing with liturgical music.

I can remember singing “Shout to the Lord” and “Lord I Lift Your Name on High” when I was a protestant. Nice songs to sing in your car or at home, or even at a non-liturgical gathering … but totally inappropriate for mass.

You’ve got to wonder what is going on in the heads of some music directors.
 
UKcatholicGuy said:
This is a very natural outcome of the Novus Ordo, which is a protestantized version of the True Catholic Mass. Why would one be shocked when protestant songs are introduced into a protestant-leaning Mass?
Click to expand...
I’m a former Methodist. The hymns we sang at my services (from the United Methodist Hymnal) were far more appropriate to Catholic worship than some of the drivel I’ve heard at mass since I’ve converted.

Charles Wesley, brother of John, wrote some of the most beautiful hymns in the English language. I’ll take his “protestant songs” over the OCP any day.
 
MusicMan said:
If these binders contain photocopies, you may have a simple method to rid yourself of the problem by reporting your parish to the publisher(s) for copyright infringement.

As for the aesthetic of the music itself, I have always been a strong proponent to a balanced approach. If music is theologically sound, then its use is OK, however a balanced diet for the parish is advised. Many churches have a “traditional” choir and a “contemporary” choir, and the Masses they lead music at known to the congregation. If Awesome God is your thing, then you go to the Mass that has the contemporary choir (not that I think Awesome God is necessarily appropriate).

Or, you strive to create a balance within the Mass itself. Four “congregational” singing pieces… Pick two hymns and two more contemporary pieces.

The most important thing is that the music be theologically sound.
Click to expand...
Actually, balance is by no means advised (not by the Church at least!). The Church is clear that Gregorian Chant has primacy of place, and the appropriateness of music is to be specifically judged in light of how closely it resembles Gregorian Chant. John Paul II taught that explicitly in written documents.
 
FrDavid96 said:
Actually, balance is by no means advised (not by the Church at least!). The Church is clear that Gregorian Chant has primacy of place, and the appropriateness of music is to be specifically judged in light of how closely it resembles Gregorian Chant. John Paul II taught that explicitly in written documents.
Click to expand...
Agreed, however, music in the US has strayed so far from this idea that any attempt to return to strict chant will be a Sisyphian battle. When I play for Mass, we sing mostly hymns. Not chant (although we use the Chabanel Project Psalms and several of the chants in the hymnal). People like that we sing hymns. There’s another group that does contemporary music. People like them. I hope that they do music that is theologically appropriate. To eliminate both groups’ styles and replace it with strict chant would cause an uproar.

Fortunately, the Church doesn’t require Chant, but if I were the music director in a large parish, I would definately push for a “Chant” only Mass to increase the options for the Faithful’s aesthetic choices, so long as music at all Masses was theologically sound.
 
I hope this isn’t too much of a thread-jack here, but this is something I’ve been wondering for a while…

I understand that the Mass is supposed to be solemn. So I understand previous poster’s issues with praise & worship-type songs in Mass.

But do Catholics ever sing these? I grew up in a Protestant church, singing some of the songs mentioned. Some of them have theological issues with Catholic faith; others do not. Some are quite excellent and could be compatible with Catholic faith.

So, is the main concern that they are sung in Mass or is it that they are sung at all?
 
For me, the main concern is that they’re sung during the Mass. They’re fine if you want to crank them in your car or on the Ipod, but the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is an entirely different thing.

I too grew up with praise/worship choruses, especially in my Pentecostal days. But I just hate the subjective emotionality these “songs” engender within the confines of a worship service. It smacks of “me-me-me”–these songs make ME feel good, these songs make ME worship, I love lifting MY hands when I sing them; does that make sense?

But when I came to the logic of the Mass, I realized that my whole spin on worship previously was so self-centered, especially with the subjective emotionality of these praise/worship choruses, that God was all but ignored. Worship that way centered entirely on SELF, not on our All-Mighty God. Jesus Christ, fully present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in every single Mass demands nothing but utmost reverence and full-on worship focused solely on HIM. . . not me.

So it was with great indignance that I saw those shiny black binders in every single pew yesterday. I will positively cry if people start raising their hands and swaying and dancing to these choruses. There’s a time and place for that, but it’s NOT, I repeat, NOT during the Holy Mass.
 
MusicMan said:
Agreed, however, music in the US has strayed so far from this idea that any attempt to return to strict chant will be a Sisyphian battle.
Click to expand...
I’d be happy with hymns, accompanied by either an organ or piano. A mix of traditional and appropriate contemporary would be fine with me.

No drums. No bongos. No electric guitar or electric piano. No saxophone solos, like we’re at a nightclub. I shouldn’t go to mass and feel like I need to wave my lighter.

If it’s not obvious, I’ve been traumatized by some of the masses available where I live. 😛
 
tcraig said:
I’d be happy with hymns, accompanied by either an organ or piano. A mix of traditional and appropriate contemporary would be fine with me.

No drums. No bongos. No electric guitar or electric piano. No saxophone solos, like we’re at a nightclub. I shouldn’t go to mass and feel like I need to wave my lighter.

If it’s not obvious, I’ve been traumatized by some of the masses available where I live. 😛
Click to expand...
:rotfl: :bowdown:
Amen – I feel the same way. It’s not a show…it’s mass.
 
Once you begin to disqualify based on theological or catechatical improprieties, one will find that all we are left with is solid hymns and (relatively) tasteful contemporary songs.
 
MusicMan said:
Once you begin to disqualify based on theological or catechatical improprieties, one will find that all we are left with is solid hymns and (relatively) tasteful contemporary songs.
Click to expand...
The million dollar question, I guess, is what is going on in Catholic parishes?

Why does the OP have to face a steady diet of praise-and-worship songs that would be appropriate in a nondenominational protestant service down the street while the hymnals gather dust?

Why does the music director at my geographical parish think a rock band is appropriate for Sunday mass?

Why does another person worry about the Billy-Joel-style-showtune mass that is driving them from their parish?

I don’t think any of us are so particular that we’re demanding only Gregorian chant or Latin motets.

:confused:
 
First and foremost, as a public school music teacher and a pastoral musician, I am seeing the following:

1.) Fewer young people learning to play piano.

2.) Even fewer young people who have learned to play piano learning organ.

3.) A shift in popular music from melody driven music to rhythm driven music. That’s why school pep bands don’t play the latest Top 40 hit any more, but instead tunes like Louie, Louie are still heard in gyms across America (and Louie, Louie may not be high musical art, but it’s melody driven).

4.) Dr. Willard Daggett of the International Center for Leadership in Education describes the current generation of kids as the “Trophy Generation.” We give out trophies for everyone at all levels. ME is now the center of the universe for our children, more than ever before.

5.) It’s a lot easier to learn five or six chords on the guitar and get them to flow together into a song about “Me and Jesus,” than it is to learn how to play the organ. I get home from my Lutheran gig on Sunday mornings and I feel like I need to take a nap. My legs are sore from how busy the pedal work is, and I’m not even that good of an organist.

Without any discussion or accusation regarding the quality of formation or teaching of young people, or any “post-VII” commentary, this is what our young people are coming to the table with. Who wouldn’t consider Lord, I Lift Your Name on High if it gets the young people into church and singing?

… But does it?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top