"Praise and Worship" music: is it acceptable as liturgical music for Mass?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lepanto
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

Lepanto

Guest
Assuming that the lyrics are 100% compatible with Catholic teaching, is “Praise and Worship” acceptable as liturgical music for Mass?

If it is not, what if the congregation is primarily composed of youth? Would that make it acceptable?

I’d appreciate any citations of pertinent Vatican or other authoritative documents in your replies.
 
Is there another way of describing what you mean? I know what you’re talking about, but looking up documentation about it might be difficult, since of course music at Mass should be geared toward praising and worshiping the Lord. I can’t seem to think of a good way to describe that kind of music in terms that objectively sets it apart from other forms of music which also praise and worship the Lord, but in a different way.
 
On the scale of what the Church considers worthy liturgical music P&W is near the bottom. The Church calls for liturgical music that is holy, universal and true art. P&W certainly doesn’t do well in the categories of holiness (being set aside for God) or true art.

The reason P&W is not holy (set aside for God) is that it relies on explicitly secular instrumentation, composition and performance styles. While the lyrics are sacred (set aside for God) everything else about the genre is strongly secular a.k.a. profane. And there’s no point in arguing this fact, since it is exactly this strong secular “feel” that is the reason given for using it for youth Masses. People want P&W precisely because it sounds like the secular pop culture, which is exactly not the sound the Church calls for in her liturgical music. Try as they might, proponents can’t have it both ways. They can’t argue that they want it for youth Masses because it doesn’t sound like secular pop music.

And I doubt too many people will argue that P&W is true art. That argument would just be embarassing.

This guarantees to become another gigantic music thread. I doubt I’ll participate much, since it’s all been said over and over. As Pope Benedict reiterated, when it comes to liturgical music we certainly cannot say that one song is as good as another.
 
lepanto said:
Assuming that the lyrics are 100% compatible with Catholic teaching, is “Praise and Worship” acceptable as liturgical music for Mass?

If it is not, what if the congregation is primarily composed of youth? Would that make it acceptable?

I’d appreciate any citations of pertinent Vatican or other authoritative documents in your replies.
Click to expand...
It is certainly not acceptable. Ironically, Pope John Paul II, whom many credit as opening the door to the Youth Movement, had this to say when it came to sacred music in his Chirograph on Sacred Music:
St Pius X’s reform aimed specifically at purifying Church music from the contamination of profane theatrical music that in many countries had polluted the repertoire and musical praxis of the Liturgy. In our day too, careful thought, as I emphasized in the Encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia, should be given to the fact that not all the expressions of figurative art or of music are able “to express adequately the mystery grasped in the fullness of the Church’s faith”[14]. Consequently, not all forms of music can be considered suitable for liturgical celebrations.
Click to expand...
  1. Another principle, affirmed by St Pius X in the Motu Proprio Tra le Sollecitudini and which is closely connected with the previous one, is that of sound form. There can be no music composed for the celebration of sacred rites which is not first of all “true art” or which does not have that efficacy “which the Church aims at obtaining in admitting into her Liturgy the art of musical sounds”[15].
Click to expand...
This can certainly be applied to Praise and Worship music, especially that which is used at Youth Masses. Now, the music used at these youth masses has been a universal concern, so much so that in their Lineamata, the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist noted it by name in their list of shadows affecting the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. In Sacramentum Caritatis, Pope Benedict XVI, while not directly referring to the music used at Youth Masses, clearly indicated that
In the course of her two-thousand-year history, the Church has created, and still creates, music and songs which represent a rich patrimony of faith and love. This heritage must not be lost. Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another. Generic improvisation or the introduction of musical genres which fail to respect the meaning of the liturgy should be avoided. As an element of the liturgy, song should be well integrated into the overall celebration (128). Consequently everything – texts, music, execution – ought to correspond to the meaning of the mystery being celebrated, the structure of the rite and the liturgical seasons (129
Click to expand...
Having heard a sampling of the Mass parts for the upcoming WYD Mass in Australia, I am hopeful that the Benedictine era will usher in some positive changes for music in Youth Masses.
 
The trouble with so much “praise and worship music” is that it doesn’t so much praise God as praise praise.
 
There are many threads on this very subject where it has been hashed to death. Expect more of the same with the usual “arguments.” It might save time to just look at one of the voluminous old threads.
 
jc-servant said:
There are many threads on this very subject where it has been hashed to death. Expect more of the same with the usual “arguments.” It might save time to just look at one of the voluminous old threads.
Click to expand...
The reason that I bring this up now is because this is the very music that was played at the “Youth Rally and Mass” at the March for Life in Washington the other day.

Not only were 300-400 priests and women religious in attendance, but so were about 20 bishops, several archbishops, and five cardinals. Even the papal nuncio was there. The entire Mass seemed to be run by and for the musician’s performance. The main celebrant, Archbishop Wuerl of Washington DC, praised the musicians for their “ministry” at the end of Mass.

One would think that someone in authority would be familiar with the Church’s official position on music and maybe have done something about it. I am a mere layman and observer.
 
lepanto said:
The reason that I bring this up now is because this is the very music that was played at the “Youth Rally and Mass” at the March for Life in Washington the other day.

Not only were 300-400 priests and women religious in attendance, but so were about 20 bishops, several archbishops, and five cardinals. Even the papal nuncio was there. The entire Mass seemed to be run by and for the musician’s performance. The main celebrant, Archbishop Wuerl of Washington DC, praised the musicians for their “ministry” at the end of Mass.

One would think that someone in authority would be familiar with the Church’s official position on music and maybe have done something about it. I am a mere layman and observer.
Click to expand...
Therein lies the problem. However, it will be very interesting when the Chief Shepherd, himself, Pope Benedict XVI, takes over at World Youth Day this summer. Evidently, the new Mass parts commissioned for WYD 2008 have a very different sound to what was used in the Cologne WYD Mass to the point that it is now rich in organ music and incorporates Latin. Inasmuch as there was Latin at the Cologne Mass, the music was horrible. When the Vatican satellite feed panned to the Holy Father’s face, he looked pained at what he was hearing.

Of course, thanking the “music” ministers is a polite gesture on the part of the Metropolitan. I submit to you, though, when the Holy Father comes to the States the music is going to be very different. I don’t hink that you’ll be hearing the LifeTeen fare in front of Benedict!
 
benedictgal
Of course, thanking the “music” ministers is a polite gesture on the part of the Metropolitan. I submit to you, though, when the Holy Father comes to the States the music is going to be very different. I don’t hink that you’ll be hearing the LifeTeen fare in front of Benedict!
Click to expand...
Hopefully Tony Melendez will play again, like he did when John Paul the Great was at the WYD in Colorado. 🙂

Jim
 
We have used some of Angrisanos music and use alot of spirit and song ( oregon catholic press) music in our later Mass.

Those who criticize this or any other valid expression of praise and worship forget that the pipe organ was not accepted in churches initially due to the close resembance to the calliope used during the Roman Circuses. :eek:

Classical music was considered scandalous. It is culture oriented. If God is praised through this expression of music then AMEN.

God in the OT was praised with Dancing by David. With the trumpet and the tamborine. Not just a bunch of solemn faces.
I LOVE JESUS and I want him to know and I am going to sing Him a HAPPY CLAPPY song. 👍
pax Christi

Crystal
 
problem is the oregon press music, praise and worship, happy clappy, liturgical dance was not called for by the vatican II council.
People use that as an excuse though. Those forms of expression are merely for entertainment purposes and are distracting.
Crystal_H said:
Those who criticize this or any other valid expression of praise and worship forget that the pipe organ was not accepted in churches initially due to the close resembance to the calliope used during the Roman Circuses. :eek:
Click to expand...
 
Crystal_H said:
We have used some of Angrisanos music and use alot of spirit and song ( oregon catholic press) music in our later Mass.

Those who criticize this or any other valid expression of praise and worship forget that the pipe organ was not accepted in churches initially due to the close resembance to the calliope used during the Roman Circuses. :eek:

Classical music was considered scandalous. It is culture oriented. If God is praised through this expression of music then AMEN.

God in the OT was praised with Dancing by David. With the trumpet and the tamborine. Not just a bunch of solemn faces.
I LOVE JESUS and I want him to know and I am going to sing Him a HAPPY CLAPPY song. 👍
pax Christi

Crystal
Click to expand...
Hahaha!

Agree.

It’s not all in happy clappy, mind you, but let me have my dose of happy clappy!

Getting serious, now, I would just like to point out that music is relative to the culture, and thus we can’t single out one style and say: “that one and no other!”, rather, we can confirm the tradition of the Church and appreciate forms such as Gregorian chant, but also have in mind the new forms as valid and acceptable.

But really, there are SO MANY threads out there, so let’s not beat the dead horse senseless, ok?

God bless.
 
Eric_Olsen said:
problem is the oregon press music, praise and worship, happy clappy, liturgical dance was not called for by the vatican II council.
People use that as an excuse though. Those forms of expression are merely for entertainment purposes and are distracting.
Click to expand...
In essence, it was called for. Vatican II called for full participation of the people in the liturgy and the music should be such, that it lifts the soul. (paraphrasing here)

I gave solid approval of Gregorian Chant, but never rejected other forms of music. Had they done so, the mission of evangelizing would’ve stopped in the West, because by your interpretation, the music styles of other cultures, would not be permitted.

Jim
 
God in the OT was praised with Dancing by David. With the trumpet and the tamborine. Not just a bunch of solemn faces

Please show some evidence that this was performed within the Temple and worship of David’s time…

james
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top