"Praise and Worship" taking place in presence of the Blessed Sacrament

  • Thread starter Thread starter hamburglar
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

hamburglar

Guest
I go to a Catholic university and in all the Residence Halls, they have chapels with the Presence of Christ in the Tabernacle.

I pray all 8 hours of the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary, in conformity with the 1961 Editio Typica of the Roman Breviary that was permitted by Summorum Pontificum and I like to do this in the chapel.

I was told that the chapels were a place for that Hall’s residents to silently pray in the Presence of the Eucharist. In fact, there are signs outside the chapel that instructs students to be quiet in and around the Chapel.

It was 9:00 pm and I went down to pray Compline, as that is the time instructed by St. Benedict. I was shocked to see all the chairs and kneelers removed and people sitting on the ground, ignoring the presence of Christ. Then the guitar music starts and people begin singing loudly. Everything was focused on the music and guitar player and the Blessed Sacrament seemed to get lost.

I talked to the person in charge of the dorm and explained to him that the chapel was designated for students to pray. I felt they were disrespecting Christ. I was told that there are “many different liturgical traditions” and we should respect them all. I’m sorry, but since when has guitar music and hand waving been a part of the Catholic Liturgical tradition? I want to pray in a liturgical way that dates back to the eight century.

Is it wrong for them to do this “Praise and Worship” in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist? I hope to talk to the priest in charge of campus ministry soon.
 
No, your not wrong at all. What they were doing was extremely disrespectful. I’m sorry you have to go through this. Talk to these people and explain the importance of Christ in the tabernacle and maybe you can get through to them. God bless you.
 
hamburglar said:
I go to a Catholic university and in all the Residence Halls, they have chapels with the Presence of Christ in the Tabernacle.

I pray all 8 hours of the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary, in conformity with the 1961 Editio Typica of the Roman Breviary that was permitted by Summorum Pontificum and I like to do this in the chapel.

I was told that the chapels were a place for that Hall’s residents to silently pray in the Presence of the Eucharist. In fact, there are signs outside the chapel that instructs students to be quiet in and around the Chapel.

It was 9:00 pm and I went down to pray Compline, as that is the time instructed by St. Benedict. I was shocked to see all the chairs and kneelers removed and people sitting on the ground, ignoring the presence of Christ. Then the guitar music starts and people begin singing loudly. Everything was focused on the music and guitar player and the Blessed Sacrament seemed to get lost.

I talked to the person in charge of the dorm and explained to him that the chapel was designated for students to pray. I felt they were disrespecting Christ. I was told that there are “many different liturgical traditions” and we should respect them all. I’m sorry, but since when has guitar music and hand waving been a part of the Catholic Liturgical tradition? I want to pray in a liturgical way that dates back to the eight century.

Is it wrong for them to do this “Praise and Worship” in the presence of Christ in the Eucharist? I hope to talk to the priest in charge of campus ministry soon.
Click to expand...
It’s not explicitly wrong. Did they have permission from Campus Ministry to do this? Did they perhaps have a designated time posted and advertised? At my alma mater a group did P&W one night a week in the adoration chapel, and it was at a time reserved for them. I was in a group that prayed Compline nightly, and we made that known to Campus Ministry so they wouldn’t schedule anything else on top of us.

-ACEGC
 
From my understanding, this was a pre-arranged event that will happen 9pm every Wednesday and they most likely have approval from Campus Ministry.

However, there is a giant sign in front of the chapel that says “no running, speaking loudly, SINGING, etc. around the chapel or elevator area.” If we aren’t allowed to sing outside the chapel, why in the world should they be permitted to sing INSIDE the chapel and ignore Christ truly present in the Eucharist?

There are many places on campus that would work perfectly fine for a Praise and Worship celebration. The chapel designed to offer students a place to silently pray is not one of them.
 
hamburglar said:
From my understanding, this was a pre-arranged event that will happen 9pm every Wednesday and they most likely have approval from Campus Ministry.

However, there is a giant sign in front of the chapel that says “no running, speaking loudly, SINGING, etc. around the chapel or elevator area.” If we aren’t allowed to sing outside the chapel, why in the world should they be permitted to sing INSIDE the chapel and ignore Christ truly present in the Eucharist?

There are many places on campus that would work perfectly fine for a Praise and Worship celebration. The chapel designed to offer students a place to silently pray is not one of them.
Click to expand...
If it’s scheduled and approved by Campus Ministry, then it’s probably going to stay. From what you say, it only happens once a week. Is it really such a big deal for you to either delay when you pray Compline (I’ve been praying the LOTH for years and have never been struck by lightning for not praying exactly when St. Benedict says to–being legalistic about one’s prayer life will only serve to make it dryer) or else pray Compline somewhere else? You say that there are many places on campus that would work fine for P&W singing, but it could also be said that there are plenty that you could go to to pray your hours. Even here at the seminary I pray mine in my room, outside, in the classrooms, sometimes even in the TV room when we’re watching football on Saturdays. Perhaps a little charity toward those who want to pray in the chapel at that scheduled time for just a small chunk of each week would be in order here–after all, the chapel, as you say, is for all students, not just yourself.

-ACEGC
 
With apologies to Stanley Kubrick, all I can think is, “Gentlemen! You can’t have praise or worship in here, this is a church!”

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
edward_george said:
If it’s scheduled and approved by Campus Ministry, then it’s probably going to stay. From what you say, it only happens once a week. Is it really such a big deal for you to either delay when you pray Compline (I’ve been praying the LOTH for years and have never been struck by lightning for not praying exactly when St. Benedict says to–being legalistic about one’s prayer life will only serve to make it dryer) or else pray Compline somewhere else? You say that there are many places on campus that would work fine for P&W singing, but it could also be said that there are plenty that you could go to to pray your hours. Even here at the seminary I pray mine in my room, outside, in the classrooms, sometimes even in the TV room when we’re watching football on Saturdays. Perhaps a little charity toward those who want to pray in the chapel at that scheduled time for just a small chunk of each week would be in order here–after all, the chapel, as you say, is for all students, not just yourself.

-ACEGC
Click to expand...
The chapel is for the residents of that particular dorm. There were students from other dorms in there. They didn’t want to pray in the chapel, they wanted to have a concert/party.

I’m more upset that my Lord was disrespected and proper reverence wasn’t given to Him. I’m not so much upset that I didn’t get to pray Compline in my usual spot, I can pray that anywhere. I spent a good thirty minutes crying because Christ was disrespected.

I asked if I could schedule a time where I could remove all the furniture from the chapel and perform gymnastics in the presence of Christ in order to give glory to God but that was turned down. Neither gymnastics nor Praise and Worship are a part of the Catholic Liturgical tradition. The point is that both are disrespectful and go against the intended purpose of the chapel.
 
How is having “praise and worship” in front of the Blessed Sacrament is a disrespect?
 
hamburglar said:
The chapel is for the residents of that particular dorm. There were students from other dorms in there. They didn’t want to pray in the chapel, they wanted to have a concert/party.

I’m more upset that my Lord was disrespected and proper reverence wasn’t given to Him. I’m not so much upset that I didn’t get to pray Compline in my usual spot, I can pray that anywhere. I spent a good thirty minutes crying because Christ was disrespected.

I asked if I could schedule a time where I could remove all the furniture from the chapel and perform gymnastics in the presence of Christ in order to give glory to God but that was turned down. Neither gymnastics nor Praise and Worship are a part of the Catholic Liturgical tradition. The point is that both are disrespectful and go against the intended purpose of the chapel.
Click to expand...
Please reread what you just posted. Can you read the hearts of those who were in the chapel, as you say, having a party? Do you know that they intended to offend Our Lord? I would be very careful about presuming people’s motives, especially if it gets you to the point of crying for a half hour. Didn’t want to pray? Sounds like they were praying alright. Please be very careful with how you’re viewing this, and think about what you’re saying. Especially the bit at the end–Praise and Worship, while it is not everyone’s cup of tea (and this comes from someone who does not attend P&W sessions and whose taste in liturgical music is what some would say is more traditional), is hardly tantamount to extreme disrespect of the Eucharist or using the chapel for other than its intended purpose.

It’s great that you have the active prayer life that you made sure to describe in such fine detail, right down to how many hours you pray, in your first post–but how deep is that prayer if you are led to uncharity? The Catholic Liturgical tradition also does not include publicly insulting people with whom we do not agree. No part of Catholic tradition does that. Charity and patience, my friend. You are in my prayers.

-ACEGC
 
edward_george said:
Please reread what you just posted. Can you read the hearts of those who were in the chapel, as you say, having a party? Do you know that they intended to offend Our Lord? I would be very careful about presuming people’s motives, especially if it gets you to the point of crying for a half hour. Didn’t want to pray? Sounds like they were praying alright. Please be very careful with how you’re viewing this, and think about what you’re saying. Especially the bit at the end–Praise and Worship, while it is not everyone’s cup of tea (and this comes from someone who does not attend P&W sessions and whose taste in liturgical music is what some would say is more traditional), is hardly tantamount to extreme disrespect of the Eucharist or using the chapel for other than its intended purpose.

It’s great that you have the active prayer life that you made sure to describe in such fine detail, right down to how many hours you pray, in your first post–but how deep is that prayer if you are led to uncharity? The Catholic Liturgical tradition also does not include publicly insulting people with whom we do not agree. No part of Catholic tradition does that. Charity and patience, my friend. You are in my prayers.

-ACEGC
Click to expand...
I came here seeking assistance, not to be attacked and harassed by someone questioning my devotion to God. Did I ever say they were committing mortal sin or imply their motives? No, but you were sure to imply my motives. Of course they don’t mean to intentionally disrespect our Lord, but neither do the woman who attempt to ordain themselves or people who create their own version of Mass. Just because the intention is good, doesn’t mean the action is good.
 
Hambulgar your not going to win. I know where you are are coming from I experience this all the time where I am at. In fact just the other day I saw the Koran on top of a picture of our lady of Guadalupe. Made me beyond upset that I just wanted to grab that book and tell out mother that I am sorry. All these folks on these forums are going to tell you you are wrong. No need to keep explaining. Just ignore that time that the hippie music is there and go pray at a different time. It’s hard to be a Catholic at a catholic university, I know trust me.
 
hamburglar said:
Neither gymnastics nor Praise and Worship are a part of the Catholic Liturgical tradition. The point is that both are disrespectful and go against the intended purpose of the chapel.
Click to expand...
The Mass is the highest form of worship that we have. The Gloria is praise within the Mass.
 
So…I don’t get it. It’s fine for the choir to sing religious music in the presence of the sacrament. The difference iiis?
 
hamburglar said:
The chapel is for the residents of that particular dorm. There were students from other dorms in there. They didn’t want to pray in the chapel, they wanted to have a concert/party.

I’m more upset that my Lord was disrespected and proper reverence wasn’t given to Him. I’m not so much upset that I didn’t get to pray Compline in my usual spot, I can pray that anywhere. I spent a good thirty minutes crying because Christ was disrespected.

I asked if I could schedule a time where I could remove all the furniture from the chapel and perform gymnastics in the presence of Christ in order to give glory to God but that was turned down. Neither gymnastics nor Praise and Worship are a part of the Catholic Liturgical tradition. The point is that both are disrespectful and go against the intended purpose of the chapel.
Click to expand...
Your undies are all in a bunch.

Silence before the Blessed Sacrament whether in Chapel or Church is the norm. But groups can get permission to schedule times for a Rosary or Praise and Worship or whatever else can be considered appropriate. This is part of the process, the normal, the accepted things. Praise and Worship can be considered appropriate. Their focus while singing doesnt seem wildly off the mark. Theyr are young , your young.

What would be inappropriate is if they didnt schedule and get permission.
You can probably get them kicked out if they are bringing pizza and sodas in there.
 
No offense to you, but Praise and Worship are quite allowed by the Church for liturgical use and otherwise. I personally subscribe to traditional and charismatic expressions. Both are valid, and have different ways of bringing us closer to Jesus. I also happen to be in a band that writes and plays songs inspired by our faith, as well as P and W songs. We play wherever and however God allows. If you are interested to see what we do in some sings: www.reverbnation.com/pagingsamuel .

P and W is used at Catholic Underground events. The Capuchin Friars of the Renewal founded these events, and they are quite true to the Franciscan spirit. They started this community because of how far Francsicans had wandered. Have you heard of Fr. Stan Fortuna, Fr. Benedict Groeschel, or Fr. Andrew Apostoli? All solid Catholic priests from the CFRs.

And here’s a link to a Vatican approved charismatic parish in Michigan: rc.net/lansing/ctk/welcome/index.html .

Please don’t assume people are ignoring the Eucharist because of their positioning. People who pray this way love the Eucharist as much as you seem to…and this is our way of honoring Him. Your love for the Blessed Sacrament is awesome though! Thank you for defending Him! Just please be more open to other people and the way they worship. Singing near the elevator is one thing. A set time of singing prayer approved by the facility is another. Peace and all good!
 
hamburglar said:
. I was shocked to see all the chairs and kneelers removed and people sitting on the ground,** ignoring the presence of Christ**. Then the guitar music starts and people begin singing loudly. Everything was focused on the music and guitar player and the Blessed Sacrament seemed to get lost.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, I would like to ask how you are able to discern that those in attendance were ignoring the presence of Christ?
 
edward_george said:
Please reread what you just posted. Can you read the hearts of those who were in the chapel, as you say, having a party? Do you know that they intended to offend Our Lord? I would be very careful about presuming people’s motives, especially if it gets you to the point of crying for a half hour. Didn’t want to pray? Sounds like they were praying alright. Please be very careful with how you’re viewing this, and think about what you’re saying. Especially the bit at the end–Praise and Worship, while it is not everyone’s cup of tea (and this comes from someone who does not attend P&W sessions and whose taste in liturgical music is what some would say is more traditional), is hardly tantamount to extreme disrespect of the Eucharist or using the chapel for other than its intended purpose.

It’s great that you have the active prayer life that you made sure to describe in such fine detail, right down to how many hours you pray, in your first post–but how deep is that prayer if you are led to uncharity? The Catholic Liturgical tradition also does not include publicly insulting people with whom we do not agree. No part of Catholic tradition does that. Charity and patience, my friend. You are in my prayers.

-ACEGC
Click to expand...
First of all, we do not know what kind of, if any, shenanigans was going on at this “praise and worship” event. The OP does. They were there. If there was blatant disrespect for the Blessed Sacrament I’m going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, not automatically make them into the bad guy.

“Publicly insulting those with whom we do not agree”? This is a conversation without a name mentioned or implied. Who exactly is being publicly insulted other than the OP here?

The comment questioning the depth and sincerity of the OP’s prayer is an inappropriate personal attack. Talk about uncharitable. Perhaps an apology is in order.
 
Fan_of_Trent said:
First of all, we do not know what kind of, if any, shenanigans was going on at this “praise and worship” event. The OP does. They were there. If there was blatant disrespect for the Blessed Sacrament I’m going to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, not automatically make them into the bad guy.

“Publicly insulting those with whom we do not agree”? This is a conversation without a name mentioned or implied. Who exactly is being publicly insulted other than the OP here?

The comment questioning the depth and sincerity of the OP’s prayer is an inappropriate personal attack. Talk about uncharitable. Perhaps an apology is in order.
Click to expand...
So when someone speaks to the OP in the same fashion as the OP refers to those he encountered that evening, that isn’t appropriate? I mean, The comment questioning the depth and sincerity of the OP’s prayer is an inappropriate personal attack. Talk about uncharitable. Perhaps an apology is in order. is exactly what the OP was doing.

If you can’t catch the ball, don’t throw it.

Anyway, this is an event that the school sponsors, and likely advertises. You have people praising God, giving glory to His name. Sorry, but I don’t see how this is a bad thing.

*The chapel is for the residents of that particular dorm. There were students from other dorms in there. *

So people across different dorms wanted to pray together? I don’t see how this is an issue.

They didn’t want to pray in the chapel, they wanted to have a concert/party.

As someone who went to college himself, If they wanted to do this, they’d have a dorm party where they could do things like play video games or whatever else. They wouldn’t “have a concert” in front of the Lord’s presence.

I’m more upset that my Lord was disrespected and proper reverence wasn’t given to Him…I spent a good thirty minutes crying because Christ was disrespected

Perhaps the Lord felt disrespected when you decided to cast doubts on the motives and hearts of an entire group of people who were seeking to give thanks to God.

Seriously, you’re saying that a group of people love the Lord and respect the Lord less than yourself simply due to that they were singing with a guitar.

You, and others, don’t see how that could possibly be a mite bit extreme?
 
All things being equal, and regardless of what is right or wrong in this situation, I do wish to say to the OP and to all others here that I am sincerely sorry for my tone on this thread. In my zeal I have allowed myself to say things that clearly are over the line of charity. I never intended to engage in a personal attack, and I apologize for my conduct on here. I offered my reception of Holy Communion this morning for all of you, especially the OP, in reparation for any hurt my words may have caused.

-ACEGC
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top