Pray and fast for conversion of James White

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Early Protestants on Infant Baptism

John Calvin:

  1. Every one must now see that paedobaptism, which receives such strong support from Scripture, is by no means of human invention. Nor is there anything plausible in the objection, that we no where read of even one infant having been baptised by the hands of the apostles. For although this is not expressly na by the Evangelists, yet as they are not expressly excluded when mention is made of any baptised family, (Acts 16: 15, 32,) what man of sense will argue from this that they were not baptised?

Ulrich Zwingli:

On the 6th of November in the preceding year [1525], a public discussion on the subject of infant baptism had been held in the council hall, when Zwingli and his friends proposed the following theses:

“Children born of believing parents are children of God, like those who were born under the Old Testament, and consequently may receive baptism.

“Baptism under the New Testament is what circumcision was under the Old; consequently, baptism ought now to be administered to children, as circumcision was formerly.

“We cannot prove the custom of re-baptizing either by examples, texts, or arguments drawn from Scripture; and those who are re-baptized crucify Jesus Christ afresh.”

Martin Luther:

That the Baptism of infants is pleasing to Christ is sufficiently proved from His own work, namely, that God sanctifies many of them who have been thus baptized, and has given them the Holy Ghost; and that there are yet many even to-day in whom we perceive that they have the Holy Ghost both because of their doctrine and life; as it is also given to us by the grace of God that we can explain the Scriptures and come to the knowledge of Christ, which is impossible without the Holy Ghost. But if God did not accept the baptism of infants, He would not give the Holy Ghost nor any of His gifts to any of them; in short, during this long time unto this day no man upon earth could have been a Christian. Now, since God confirms Baptism by the gifts of His Holy Ghost as is plainly perceptible in some of the church fathers, as St. Bernard, Gerson, John Hus, and others, who were baptized in infancy, and since the holy Christian Church cannot perish until the end of the world, they must acknowledge that such infant baptism is pleasing to God. For He can never be opposed to Himself, or support falsehood and wickedness, or for its promotion impart His grace and Spirit. This is indeed the best and strongest proof for the simple-minded and unlearned. For they shall not take from us or overthrow this article: I believe a holy Christian Church, the communion of saints.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
For those keeping score at home that’s Scripture, Early Church Fathers and Early Protestants all teaching infant baptism.

Modern Protestants say no.

What should we believe?
 
Sorry i missed this.
No problem.
Infant baptism can’t be supported by the scriptures
Says you. I think a Lutheran would strongly disagree with you here. In fact I don’t “think” anything about it, a Lutheran would strongly disagree with you.
I’m well aware that catholics will say its with families but that still is not enough for proof.
This sounds like an atheist argument. Why do I get the feeling that no amount of proof would be enough for you. :rolleyes:
Lutherans and baptist would say baptism is essential though they differ on the mode and timing of the person
Don’t kid yourself. They more than differ on it, one of these denominations is being unbiblical by either baptizing or withholding baptism from children. So much for agreeing on the essentials huh? :whistle:

Shall we move on to communion? End of days theology? Predestination… Tell me when the essentials that you guys, “agree” on stop.

God bless
 
All the scriptures you are quoting here does not prove its the catholic church. Look at the church in the NT and compare with the catholic church of today and you don’t see the samething.
WHY would you EXCPECT it to look the same. The Church is always growing and changing - yet holding to the same traditions and core beliefs. NOTHING remains the same as it grows to maturity.
Everytime I hear a Protestant say that their church is closer to the early Church in the Bible I can’t help but chuckle a little bit at how naiive that sounds.
 
So you really don’t have in reality a final authority that can tell you what a specifc verse or passage means. Having a knowledgeable authority is not the same as having an infallible authority in which your church claims. I’m not speaking just of errors but what does the verse or passage mean. All you can do is to ask various people what it means. None of them have the final and ultimate say what it means. You to must live by what you wrote above—“being accurately interpreted by every Huey, Dewey, and Louie who picks it up…”
That’s not true…the point is that unless a question comes up then the Church has no reason to make a definitive statement.

You cannot tell me that you have a definitive answer for every verse in the Word of God because I happen to know from years of personal experience that that is not the case. I have seen far far too many people try to wing it. (Hey, I even did at some point) The result was error almost every time and worse still without reference to the ECF and Christian history and tradition they didn’t even realize that they were dead wrong.

There are more than ample Bible studies from solid Catholic sources and even if all you did was sit down and study the Catechism of the Catholic Church (paying careful attention to the footnotes) I have found it to be one of the most comprehensive Bible studies I’ve ever encountered.

You can assert that you have an accurate and authoritative interpretation of any given passage of the Bible, but in the end, when compared to verifiably historic writings of the early church as well as the New Testament, what you’ll have is your own personal errant teachings.
 
In your errant opinion. You’ll be opening new threads here 'til hell freezes over (I hope) as you seek to support that bit of anti-Catholic propaganda. Just remember…one topic-one thread, but by all means…[SIGN]Bring it on!!![/SIGN]
Someone falsely accused Dr. White of uncharitability, and I’m just defending what he does as charitable. I’m not interested in opening new threads.
 
So, it’s your opinion that God abandoned the Church that He Himself built and said He would remain with until the end of the age and started over with a new group of (Protestant) leaders who taught doctrines which were frequently contradictory with those that had been taught for the first 1500 years of the Church’s existence?

Is this your position?
No. Another thread.
 
Someone falsely
accused Dr. White of uncharitability, and I’m just defending what he does as charitable. I’m not interested in opening new threads.I suggest that you go in and read his stuff and replace all the Catholic references with ones that apply to your personal beliefs, and then come back and tell us just how falsely he’s been accused.

What was it that Our Lord said?

Luke 6:31 And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them in like manner.
 
Many believe that Mr. James White has led many people astray and makes his living by promoting anti-Catholicism.

It is my belief that Mr. White knows more than anyone how untruthful he is regarding the Catholic Church and that he is sort of “stuck” by making a good living out of Anti-Catholicism.

He is a smart man who needs the Holy Spirit to open his heart for change.

I am asking that all here who have such an opinion (or worse!) put their efforts into not bashing him, but praying for him this week.

I ask that you commit to a day of prayer and fasting for the conversion of James White on this coming Friday, May 11th.

Please “sign here” and commit to praying at least once every hour you are awake on Friday.

Please also commit to fasting from meat this Friday as a form of prayer for the conversion of James White.

Please also mention here if you have recruited someone (offline) to pray that day for him.
I saw his sister, Patty Bonds, on the Journey Home. She is an inspiring Catholic convert. Let’s hope he follows her witness.
 
one quick question I have ingaged in this thread but I have no Idea why friday was such a big deal?

did you just pick this day so we could all pray together or is there something im missing
 
All the scriptures you are quoting here does not prove its the catholic church. Look at the church in the NT and compare with the catholic church of today and you don’t see the samething.
I would hope not!

A mustard seed is a mustard seed, period. That is what you have in the NT. Not the plant that is eventually becomes, which grows and can have dwell in it the birds of the air. It does not “prove the Catholic Church”, but it shows the beginnings of it, and that is also historical and spiritual and physical.

Besides where does the Bible say all PROOF must be contained in it? WOULD YOU PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS?
 
I would hope not!

A mustard seed is a mustard seed, period. That is what you have in the NT. Not the plant that is eventually becomes, which grows and can have dwell in it the birds of the air. It does not “prove the Catholic Church”, but it shows the beginnings of it, and that is also historical and spiritual and physical.

Besides where does the Bible say all PROOF must be contained in it? WOULD YOU PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS?
Yes, Cardinal Newman would say all things in the Catholic Church are contained in scripture, some in seed form:thumbsup:
 
I THOUGHT TODAYS FIRST READING TODAY WAS QUITE APPROPRIATE:
Some who had come down from Judea were instructing the brothers,
“Unless you are circumcised according to the Mosaic practice,
you cannot be saved.”
Because there arose no little dissension and debate
by Paul and Barnabas with them,
it was decided that Paul, Barnabas, and some of the others
should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders
about this question.

The apostles and elders, in agreement with the whole church,
decided to choose representatives
and to send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas.
The ones chosen were Judas, who was called Barsabbas,
and Silas, leaders among the brothers.
This is the letter delivered by them:

“The apostles and the elders, your brothers,
to the brothers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia
of Gentile origin: greetings.
Since we have heard that some of our number
who went out without any mandate from us
have upset you with their teachings
and disturbed your peace of mind,
we have with one accord decided to choose representatives
and to send them to you along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
who have dedicated their lives to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So we are sending Judas and Silas
who will also convey this same message by word of mouth:
‘It is the decision of the Holy Spirit and of us
not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities,
namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols,
from blood, from meats of strangled animals,
and from unlawful marriage.
If you keep free of these,
you will be doing what is right. Farewell.’”
[COLORS ADDED FOR EMPHASIS]

Even the little seed, beginning to take root, showed structure and Teaching Authority. They held fast to the Traditions handed down by word of mouth or by letter. One can not get around it without ignoring God’s Word.
 
Happy Mother’s Day to all Moms out there and let us pray for all those Moms who are with us physically and spiritually.

And of course Mary the Mother of Jesus and our Mother too (He is our Borther and God is our Father).

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY!

View attachment 925
 
All the scriptures you are quoting here does not prove its the catholic church. Look at the church in the NT and compare with the catholic church of today and you don’t see the samething.
If I looked at your baby pictures and then a picture of you today, would I see the same thing?
 
All the scriptures you are quoting here does not prove its the Catholic church. Look at the church in the NT and compare with the Catholic church of today and you don’t see the samething.
This is your uninformed opinion.

However after actually reading the New Testament and the writings of the early church I have found that you are dead wrong.

Just for instance: The Eucharist IS Scriptural!
 
I suggest that you go in and read his stuff and replace all the Catholic references with ones that apply to your personal beliefs, and then come back and tell us just how falsely he’s been accused.
Exactly CM! You took the words out of my mouth…er…fingers. Here is a man that bashes one billion Christians and claims it is charitable. Why is it charitable? Because in his opinion, the Catholic Church is a false Church. Not only is this uncharitable, but it is supreme arrogance. 😦
 
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