Pray for California

[SamH]

Oh but they want to have their “family units,” too! Isn’t it flattering, they want to mimic everything about normality!

Again- I’m extremely curious to see how those who achieve their homosexual-homosexual “marriages” will react when legalizing polygamy becomes the issue. Will they be true to their “logic” and support polygamous “marriages?” Or, will they see increasing expansion of the definition of marriage as a threat to their own “marriages?”

I’ve wondered about that too. After all, who are they to judge?

Polygamy has been a recognized form of marriage much longer that “gay” marriage.

 

[Giants]

The historical definition of marriage as occurring only between a man and a woman is obviously and fundamentally changed when it is no longer only between a man and a woman.

I freely admit my bias- I am a Roman Catholic, believe in the teachings of Holy Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church. These teachings are that marriage is a sacrament which can only take place between one man and one woman.

What is your bias?

My bias is towards the facts, as revealed by our ever evolving understanding of the world we live in, not the static “truths” and alleged “wisdom” revealed in the re-translated re-translations of documents written 20 centuries ago.

CrimsonThorn:

Even if gays are “married” under the law, they are still not married nor will they ever be.

Just wait until this non-acknowledgement gets classified as hate, then come back and say it doednt affect us.

Our kids in public shools have to hear about gay rights and the gay lifrstyle, what relevance does that have to anyone, especially at school aimed at children?

As far as I know, gays can be “married” and have had those rights for a long time, theyre upset that its not legally called marriage.

You see, they dont just want to do what they want and be happy, they want to overtake, assault, and redefine marriage. They want to turn gender roles and the family unit upside down. The family unit being the foundation of society, when that is gone, society is gone.

So gay “marriage” affects EVERYONE really.

No, gay marriage does no such thing. Every presumably horrible consequence of “gay marriage” being legalized are already aboard a ship long since sailed. Kids are already taught about tolerance of the “gay lifestyle” (more through the media than public schooling). Your intolerance of homosexuality is already being condemned for what it is - intolerance. And gay people can already legally co-habitate, and adopt children. So much for your retrograde understanding of what “family” is.

Needless to say, there actual difference between marriages and civil unions. To pretend that they’re equal, either in a legal or a cultural/societal sense, is demonstrably false.

 

[Giants]

So you agree it does affect people paying social security.

How do you imagine that it affects people paying social security?

 

[Seeker1961]

Please explain how a strategy of enthusiastically agreeing with anti-Catholic posts on CAF is useful. Also, your statement on voting contradicts (again) what we are told by Catholic leaders.

Although you present yourself as some great voice of tolerance, that does not excuse opposition to Catholic moral teachings. The very fact that you have are able to list your “religion” as “not a CAF Catholic” shows where the real tolerance is on these forums.

I changed it after I spent considerable time here and learned what the prevailing attitude of CAF Catholics is about the world around them and how different it is from the church I was raised in, educated in and attend. CAF is a subset, a small minority of the membership of the Catholic Church, and clearly not one where I fit in very well.

However, I still post here because I occasionally see others that belong to the same subset that I do.

 

[Faithdancer]

My bias is towards the facts, as revealed by our ever evolving understanding of the world we live in, not the static “truths” and alleged “wisdom” revealed in the re-translated re-translations of documents written 20 centuries ago.

No, gay marriage does no such thing. Every presumably horrible consequence of “gay marriage” being legalized are already aboard a ship long since sailed. Kids are already taught about tolerance of the “gay lifestyle” (more through the media than public schooling). Your intolerance of homosexuality is already being condemned for what it is - intolerance. And gay people can already legally co-habitate, and adopt children. So much for your retrograde understanding of what “family” is.

Needless to say, there actual difference between marriages and civil unions. To pretend that they’re equal, either in a legal or a cultural/societal sense, is demonstrably false.

I submit that everyone is to some extent biased by their belief system, or lack thereof. Rationalism, materialism and moral relativism are as much “belief systems” as the belief system grounded in Scripture. Those who are dismissive of revealed religion are themselves biased, but delude themselves that they are not.

 

[Faithdancer]

I changed it after I spent considerable time here and learned what the prevailing attitude of CAF Catholics is about the world around them and how different it is from the church I was raised in, educated in and attend. CAF is a subset, a small minority of the membership of the Catholic Church, and clearly not one where I fit in very well.

However, I still post here because I occasionally see others that belong to the same subset that I do.

No one denies your right to be here and express your opinion. I still don’t understand this strategy of evangelization by endorsing anti-Catholic statements made by unbelievers, however.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

The forum is Catholic, but it exists in a world that contains other people who are not. Ignoring the existence of the rest of the world doesn’t solve anything.

Catholics are aware and are increasingly so. They better not ignore the rest of the world and how some if not many elements of secularism are not good for the sake of society and the future generation. Catholics better speak up with a stronger and more united voice!

Further, do you know why Catholic Answers was founded and came to be in existence?

If you have not come across its stated mission, it is

Catholic Answers is an apostolate dedicated to serving Christ by bringing the fullness of Catholic truth to the world. We help good Catholics become better Catholics, bring former Catholics “home,” and lead non-Catholics into the fullness of the faith.

Ask yourself this, do you see your postings as helping bring the fullness of Catholic truth?
,

 

[Faithdancer]

Catholics are aware and are increasingly so. They better not ignore the rest of the world and how some if not many elements of secularism are not good for the sake of society and the future generation. Catholics better speak up with a stronger and more united voice!

Further, do you know why Catholic Answers was founded and came to be in existence?

If you have not come across its stated mission, it is

Ask yourself this, do you see your postings as helping bring the fullness of Catholic truth?
,

Amen. Can we help bring the fullness of Catholic truth by spreading misinformation and confusion about Catholic teachings? Can we help bring the fullness of Catholic truth by agreeing with atheists and others who have an agenda to disrupt and destroy Christianity? How can we* ever* take the side of an atheist against Church teachings?

 

[CrimsonThorn]

My bias is towards the facts, as revealed by our ever evolving understanding of the world we live in, not the static “truths” and alleged “wisdom” revealed in the re-translated re-translations of documents written 20 centuries ago.

No, gay marriage does no such thing. Every presumably horrible consequence of “gay marriage” being legalized are already aboard a ship long since sailed. Kids are already taught about tolerance of the “gay lifestyle” (more through the media than public schooling). Your intolerance of homosexuality is already being condemned for what it is - intolerance. And gay people can already legally co-habitate, and adopt children. So much for your retrograde understanding of what “family” is.

Needless to say, there actual difference between marriages and civil unions. To pretend that they’re equal, either in a legal or a cultural/societal sense, is demonstrably false.

Actually its the only definition of what a family is. Gays who adopt children rely on straight people for those children or at the very least rely on the natural way to create a child. Trying to find a shortcut past that and their “families” do not exist.

Another thing, why should gay couples receive marriage benefits? Those relationships do.not benefit society in any way, shape, or form. It only benefits their emotions. How backwards is that? So its probably within good reason that there is a difference between marriage and a civil union, it doednt make sense that they should be the same.

 

[livingwordunity]

The USA is now controlled by a small minority who tirelessly promote a culture of hedonism.

 

[kozlosap]

Lets pray for those on Staton Island and the Jersey Shore instead. The constitutional issues will be decided by those chosen to protect us all, whether we are in the minority or majority.

 

[fix]

Lets pray for those on Staton Island and the Jersey Shore instead. The constitutional issues will be decided by those chosen to protect us all, whether we are in the minority or majority.

Legal issues may be decided justly or unjustly. Pray for all victims.

 

[Faithdancer]

Lets pray for those on Staton Island and the Jersey Shore instead. The constitutional issues will be decided by those chosen to protect us all, whether we are in the minority or majority.

So the issue of same sex “marriage” is purely a constitutional issue?

 

[Seeker1961]

Amen. Can we help bring the fullness of Catholic truth by spreading misinformation and confusion about Catholic teachings? Can we help bring the fullness of Catholic truth by agreeing with atheists and others who have an agenda to disrupt and destroy Christianity? How can we* ever* take the side of an atheist against Church teachings?

I know what worked for me, and what brought me back to the Church I was raised in, and it was NOT the type of attitude towards gay people that I’ve read in many of the posts here.

Again, I ask you to please identify the specific posts where I said that Catholic teachings were untrue, should be changed or that Catholic teaching ever would change. I know there’s a lot of posts to dig through, but since you seem to be so sure I’ve done that, you should be able to find them.

 

[Faithdancer]

I know what worked for me, and what brought me back to the Church I was raised in, and it was NOT the type of attitude towards gay people that I’ve read in many of the posts here.

Again, I ask you to please identify the specific posts where I said that Catholic teachings were untrue, should be changed or that Catholic teaching ever would change. I know there’s a lot of posts to dig through, but since you seem to be so sure I’ve done that, you should be able to find them.

When one consistently cheerleads for atheists who oppose Catholic teaching at every turn, that is the same as making statements opposing Catholic teaching. And there are so many examples of this. I think the list of posts you have made wherein you defend Catholic teachings against atheist attacks will be far shorter and much more quickly compiled.

 

[Giants]

I submit that everyone is to some extent biased by their belief system, or lack thereof. Rationalism, materialism and moral relativism are as much “belief systems” as the belief system grounded in Scripture. Those who are dismissive of revealed religion are themselves biased, but delude themselves that they are not.

I’m not biased against religion. It’s just that not a single religion ever conceived has, to the extent that it makes claims about the ultimate nature of reality, ever cashed out as being indisputably true, or even plausibly true. Find me a religion that does, and I won’t dismiss it.

CrimsonThorn:

Actually its the only definition of what a family is. Gays who adopt children rely on straight people for those children or at the very least rely on the natural way to create a child. Trying to find a shortcut past that and their “families” do not exist.

Another thing, why should gay couples receive marriage benefits? Those relationships do.not benefit society in any way, shape, or form. It only benefits their emotions. How backwards is that? So its probably within good reason that there is a difference between marriage and a civil union, it doednt make sense that they should be the same.

This only follows from a faulty premise that there’s no such thing as a family made up of two men or two women, raising children.

 

[kozlosap]

So the issue of same sex “marriage” is purely a constitutional issue?

When we are speaking of civil law concerns and the Constitution, yes. Equal
Protection is an important concept. Now, the government cannot mandate any
Church to marry couples just as it can’t mandate the RCC to annul marriages.
Do you not want to live in a country where there is a strong judiciary that is in
Place for the sole purpose to protect our rights under the constitution? I don’t want
Civilians to tell the Vatican what to do either.

 

[Seeker1961]

When one consistently cheerleads for atheists who oppose Catholic teaching at every turn, that is the same as making statements opposing Catholic teaching. And there are so many examples of this. I think the list of posts you have made wherein you defend Catholic teachings against atheist attacks will be far shorter and much more quickly compiled.

Once again, you throw accusations without proof. Isn’t lying about other people a sin? Well. I guess it’s not as much a sin as being gay, is it?

For the benefit of others here, this is the last time I will address any of your posts directly. The back and forth of your accusations and my asking for proof that is never provided is cluttering up otherwise good threads.

 

[Faithdancer]

Once again, you throw accusations without proof. Isn’t lying about other people a sin? Well. I guess it’s not as much a sin as being gay, is it?

For the benefit of others here, this is the last time I will address any of your posts directly. The back and forth of your accusations and my asking for proof that is never provided is cluttering up otherwise good threads.

Posts 63 and 66, this very thread. You support the position of a non-believer, in direct contradiction to Catholic teaching that opposes same sex “marriage,” There is no hairsplitting in that teaching, a la its okay if homosexuals get “married” outside the Church, etc… The Catholic Church opposes same sex “marriage,” period- everywhere, all the time.

I’m not out to witch hunt anyone. But time after time, on thread after thread, I’ve noticed how you take the side of atheists and non-believers who speak against Catholic teaching, particularly on the subject of same sex “marriage.” I suggest you figure out which side you are on because in the war that the secularists are escalating against the Church, you won’t be able to remain a 'tweener forever.

 

[maximus]

What will really be interesting is that, unlike the gay marriage debate, the people forming ranks on both sides of the polygamy debate will be religious, and using their theologies to justify their positions on the issue.

You are correct once Gay marriage gets “normalized” polygamy and group marriages will soon follow.

One of the side effects of Polygamy is that you will have men kicking out of their homes young teenage sons because they constitute competition in their quest for more wives. This is observed in renegade communities that practice polygamy. It kinds of promotes a war on young men.