Pray TO Mary or THROUGH Mary

[DanteAlighieri]

Linkowski, there’s a Protestant kids’ song that goes:

The B-I-B-L-E
Yes, that’s the book for me
I stand alone on the word of God
The B-I-B-L-E

Suppose a Catholic accused you of idolatry because this song says “I stand alone on the word of God,” when really one should stand alone on Jesus, not on a book — so anyone who is standing alone on the Bible is ignoring Jesus and replacing Jesus with an abominable idol. If you heard such a bizarre accusation, you’d just shake your head in amazement that anybody could misrepresent your beliefs so totally. That’s how Catholics feel when we hear these arguments about Mary.

When someone says they “stand alone on the Bible,” what they ultimately mean is they stand alone on Jesus. When someone says they “turn to the Bible for guidance,” obviously what they mean is they are turning to Jesus for guidance. The printed words are precious but ultimately they are just a method of communication — the source is Jesus. Similarly, when someone says they are “turning to Mary” for help, they ultimately are turning to Jesus. Saying someone is devoted to “Mary instead of Jesus” makes about as much sense as saying someone loves, “the Bible instead of Jesus.”

Naturally, the Protestant kids’ song doesn’t constitute “idolatry” — the whole reason the B-I-B-L-E has any value whatsoever is because of Jesus. Same thing with Mary. Yes, we Catholics love Mary — because of Jesus. Yes, we turn to Mary — because of Jesus. It is all because of Jesus.

I know this discussion seems to have peetered out, but I just finished reading the whole thread (phew!) and I wanted to point out that this was a wonderful response. Very eloquent and civil, as well as to the point.

Peace,
Dante

 

[Bishopite]

What is difficult for you is that you have no scriptural basis for your practice but only have philisophical opinions that have no biblical basis. Then, on top of that, you ridicule me by saying…

***In re: your little saying?? Hello!!!Jesus is the Word of God!! ***

You might wanta try to remember that. Like say, when you’re sacrificing your spare time to work extra hours to buy a new Bible.
Wouldn’t want anybody thinking you were worshipping or sacrificing to your Bible…

I am very aware that Jesus IS the Word of God but the Word of God, in the OT and NT proclaim Christ. And, I know you know this too…but you choose to purpousfully misunderstand me.

We do NOT ask anyone outside the body of Christ to pray for us.

James 5:16 says “the prayers of a righteous man availeth much.” The saints in heaven are more righteous than we are for sure and can hear us as is seen in Hebrews 11, a chapter on hagiography (study of the saints of old) we see the Old Testament saints who were faithful to God, this leads into chapter 12 where the writer of Hebrews says in 12:1 “Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us”

This is proof that the saints can somehow see us and hear us since they are “witnesses” who sorround us. Notice it says “we are surrounded.”
But that’s not all Scripture says about those in heaven who can hear us.
Luke 15:10 Jesus said…“I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

So…how can there be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents if those in heaven can’t see nor hear us?
Remember the “saved” are as Angels in that they are outside time and in eternity with God.

And …
"the verb “to pray” means “to ask.” The English word “pray” originally simply meant “ask,” and so when one would ask God for something, one was praying to God, and in the same way when one asked another to ask on your behalf, you were praying to them to pray for you.

This usage began to change in English after the Protestant Reformation, when the people running the English language became Protestants. The idealized form of English is “the King’s English,” and the king of England was the head of the Protestant Church of England. In the same way, all of the universities in England went Protestant, and so English began to take on a Protestant ideological bent (see our discussion of this in the FAQ “What is a Saint?”).

One of the Protestantisms that was introduced into English was to begin to restrict the verb “to pray” to God alone, and the semantic range of the word began to shrink in most circumstances. Still, however, there were survivals of the older, broader usage.

One of them is found, for example, in the British expression, “prithee,” as in “Prithee, fetch the book” or “Prithee, do tell.” “Prithee” is a contraction of “I pray thee” or, more contemporarily, “I ask you.” (There are a lot of English contractions like that; “goodbye” is a contraction of “God be with ye” and “zounds!” is a contraction of “by God’s [Christ’s] wounds!” Check a dictionary.)

In America, where the movers and shakers of the English language were also Protestants, even this usage dropped off, but even here there are survivals of the older, broader use of the term, for example, in court documents.

Once back when I was a Protestant I had occasion to file a motion with a court, and when I got the paperwork my lawyer had submitted, I was stunned to see him writing things like **“My client prays that the court will do thus and so.” **My Protestant sensibilities were shocked! "Your client does nothing of the sort!" I thought. But I was only encountering a survival of the older, broader use of the word “pray,” of which I was at that time unaware, thanks to the efforts of my Protestant forebears in amputating it from the English language.

Another survival of the older usage of “pray,” and the one which concerns us here, is of course its use in Catholic circles. English-speaking Catholics never dropped the older usage when the Protestants around them began to restrict its meaning, and so Catholics still today speak of praying to the saints and meaning by it simply asking the saints to intercede for us."

jamesakin.com/