Prayer and distractions

[Mr.Blank1.5]

For no reason at all he will abandon them, partly at least, thinking that he will finish them in another moment. Does he want to offer his day to God, to say his Grace? He does all that, but often without thinking of the one who is addressed. He will not even stop working. If the possessor of the lukewarm soul is a man, he will turn his cap or his hat around in his hands as if to see whether it is good or bad, as though he had some idea of selling it. If it is a woman, she will say her prayers while slicing bread into her soup, or putting wood on the fire, or calling out to her children or maid. If you like, such distractions during prayer are not exactly deliberate. People would rather not have them, but because it is necessary to go to so much trouble and expend so much energy to get rid of them, they let them alone and allow them to come as they will.

So I thought about this passage from St. Jean-Marie-Baptiste Vianney. Is he saying that praying while doing other things is wrong? I often find myself with urges to say short prayers or petitions whenever I am doing random things. For example, when I am driving, watching tv, etc. Does this mean I must always turn off whatever is on or save prayer for times where there are no distractions? Or am I just reading this wrong?

 

[baltobetsy]

Look at it this way. There’s your planned prayer time and there are little prayers thoughout the day, and they’re completely separate things. This passage refers to doing something else during your planned prayer time. That time should be completely dedicated to God and prayer, barring some emergency or other special circumstance. The little short prayers during the day can be said no matter what you’re doing. Think of little kids and their imaginary friends - they talk to the “friends” in the midst of all kinds of activities. You can talk to the real God, Who is present with you at all times, the same way.

 

[Adam_Cook]

I apologize baltobetsy, but this is not wise counsel.

St. John Vianney is saying that yes you are in the wrong when you are doing other things and praying at the same time. You see here’s the thing, when you are in prayer you are in a different realm, a different world. You are with God, you are with Christ. Full attention, no distractions.

What St. Vianney is saying is that the Lukewarm soul is that in which it wants to pray, but it doesn’t care enough to stop what it is doing to go sit and find a quiet place to talk to God.

If you are driving, that’s not the place. If you are watching T.V, turn it off. These are distractions, you must be in silence and completely focused on Christ in order to fully receive the full blessings of Christ in prayer. Stop what you are doing, or wait till you get home. Write down what you need prayer about and save it for later. If your soul is pushing for prayer almost urgently, then find a quiet spot and pray.

We grow in Quietness, in silence not in the busy world that we live.

Don’t be like the lukewarm soul, stop what you are doing. Run, run away from the distractions and seek to find refuge in Christ, wholly. That is what St. Vianney is saying, that is what he means. You care enough that what ever your doing currently, at that point in time is not worth it and Christ is more important.

This is backed by the last sentence when he states that “People would rather not have them, but because it is necessary to go to so much trouble and expend so much energy to get rid of them, they let them alone and allow them to come as they will.” The lukewarm soul would rather not have them so they let them come and go as they will.

I understand that you said “I often find myself with urges to say short prayers or petitions whenever I am doing random things.” If you have this urge, this is your soul calling out to God. Listen, stop what you are doing and go pray in a quiet corner away from everything. In order to fully hear God’s voice, you need to be still, you need to be quiet.

Be Strong Brother, my prayers are with you.

 

[baltobetsy]

Adam, I can’t believe you’d actually say that it is wrong to turn one’s mind briefly to God in the midst of one’s daily activities. One’s responsibilities cannot simply be put aside because of a thought to share with God, or a praise of Him, or a brief petition or thanksgiving. And a person should not have to wait until the appointed time to praise or thank or petition God, either. Every waking moment should be imbued with the presence of God, and that means turning one’s mind to Him whenever possible, even in the midst of other activities. Such living in the presence of God is doing everything under the Father’s watchful, loving gaze and returning that gaze when possible. The father who watches his toddler play or his school age child do homework does not mind if the child looks up and smiles at Daddy while he plays or works. As God’s children, we are free to do the same, not be forced to pigeonhole “prayer time” and “not prayer time.”

Many saints, including St. Josemaria Escriva in our own time, have advised the use of aspirations and ejaculatory prayers throughout the day.

Prayer time, though, should be kept separate and distinct without combining it with other activities. That is the time to give the Lord full attention.

 

[Adam_Cook]

you obviously missed my point and St. Vianney’s point.

I am not saying that it is wrong to pray to God, but you should be completely focused on him and him alone when your praying. If your sitting there cutting cucumbers, are you truly going to be focused on God or cutting yourself. I’m saying here that you need to STOP what you are doing and talk to God. People these days are so intertwined with the world that they don’t realize you NEED to STOP what you are doing to hear God. Now you might be talking about Meditation or Contemplation more specifically. In which you are thinking and talking to God in your mind. Turning ones mind to God is not the problem, our mind should ALWAYS be on God. Its to the fact that if your “talking” to God, you are probably thinking about God so therefor you are not in prayer but you are in contemplation. Also one must also realize that you yourself if you are doing this are not truly LISTENING to God.

I personally have no problem keeping my mind on God and thinking about him and what he’s done, but what St. Vianney is saying is that you need to STOP what your doing and actually pray. I hate to use this term and I apologize in advance but I am a military man “Don’t half-*** it”. This is what St. Vianney is saying, this is the problem of the lukewarm soul. Because people will continue in their daily lives and just “pray” and in the process are not receiving the fullness of the graces of God that comes from you actually STOPPING what your doing and sit down and talk to God.

Let’s put it this way, if your sitting there talking to someone and they are texting someone else and also trying to talk to you, isn’t it annoying? its the same thing, your trying to do one thing and your not fully paying attention to God in the process. How can you possibly ever know Christ and know God if your not paying attention to what he has to say to you. If you really feel the urge to pray the STOP what your doing and go pray, otherwise keep it for later when you have more time. Our God is compassionate and loving, he’s always there and always waiting for you, He’s giving you the full attention that you don’t deserve (cause we are all unworthy of God and the eternal sacrifice given to us by Christ) so why can’t you stop for 10 min and actually talk to God. If your in a Car, turn on some Christian tunes and sing to God.

I never said that you should wait for the appointed time, I said if you don’t have the time and its not urgent than that’s what you should do. If your sitting at the home alone and your cooking and you feel a desire to pray to God, I promise you have time to stop and go pray. I know cause my grandmother has done it all her life. If she wants to pray, she turns off the stove and goes and prays. Why? its easy cause you need to understand that prayer is not a one way road, he wants to show you, teach you and give you understanding of things and that can’t happen when your focused on trying to talk to him and cut up the dinner veggies.

Let’s take this entire part of this sermon shall we:

“He will not even stop working. If the possessor of the lukewarm soul is a man, he will turn his cap or his hat around in his hands as if to see whether it is good or bad, as though he had some idea of selling it. If it is a woman, she will say her prayers while slicing bread into her soup, or putting wood on the fire, or calling out to her children or maid. If you like, such distractions during prayer are not exactly deliberate. People would rather not have them, but because it is necessary to go to so much trouble and expend so much energy to get rid of them, they let them alone and allow them to come as they will.”

let’s pay special attention to “He will not even stop working.” Won’t even stop working to talk to God, that’s the person with the Lukewarm soul. So one who won’t give God the attention they deserve. It then goes forth to give examples of types of people that inhabit this soul. So yes am I saying that its bad for you to keep doing what your doing and not stopping to give God the respect and full attention he deserves? yes! because you were so focused on EVERYTHING else, you chose that over God by not giving him a few minutes of your time.

A prayer time is a devoted hour that you place for your own spiritual care, but as St. Vianney has shown many a times you may have that desire that is not of that and thus you must STOP what your doing and go INTO prayer so that you can fully hear God’s voice. Does not Christ say that we should go forth away from everyone and pray, so that our reward should not come from men but come from heaven? Are we suppose to “pidgeonhole” ourselves when we pray? YES! because otherwise we show ourselves to the world and we have our reward.

 

[baltobetsy]

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. As I see it, St. John Vianney is speaking of people who will only pray when they’re doing something else. I am speaking of people who have their prayer time and then do their daily work aware that God is present with them and keeping up a loving conversation with Him the whole time. Wouldn’t you agree that it’s rude to omit speaking to Someone who’s right there with you all the time?

This kind of constant prayer stokes the fires of love throughout the day and is the antithesis of lukewarmness.

 

[Adam_Cook]

The only problem is that never does he say the word only, he uses clearly says “He will not even stop working” you have to stop what your doing in order to hear God, because you can only ever hear God through the silence of your heart and mind. That means no distractions “If you like, such distractions during prayer are not exactly deliberate. People would rather not have them, but because it is necessary to go to so much trouble and expend so much energy to get rid of them, they let them alone and allow them to come as they will.” your distraction is that your doing something other than listening to God. Your cooking dinner or watching T.V for examples. If you really want to pray to God then you need to turn it all off to effective listen and receive the full graces from God.

I also think that you are not fully understanding what prayer is. Prayer is speaking to God in a way that you escape from the world around you and you enter into a holier state. A state in which the living God can effectively see you for who you are and the heart. There is a difference in prayer and the type of “prayer” that St. Vianney is talking about. St. Vianney is clearly making the statement that this is not prayer that you are doing when you allow yourself to be distracted by the work of other things. Honestly you can recognize God is with you, singing is one example of this. Another way is just making a small statement of praise to God. This is praise, not prayer, there is a difference. We can praise God in our prayers, this is a true statement. We can praise God during the day by thanking him while we are doing household work, but we cannot PRAY to God while doing these house chores for then you are not honestly praying but you are allowing for something else to take place. As St. Vianney says “People would rather not have them, but because it is necessary to go to so much trouble and expend so much energy to get rid of them, they let them alone and allow them to come as they will.”

That is the problem with the Lukewarm soul, that last statement fills it all up, sums up the root of it all. That people would rather not have them, but because they are to heavy to get rid of they just let them come and go as they will. When your doing your household chores or at work. You should not seek to do this type of “prayer” for you are not praying but in the true essence of things you are honestly saying them to get rid of them, with no meaning of who they are addressed to “Does he want to offer his day to God, to say his Grace? He does all that, but often without thinking of the one who is addressed.”

Remembrance of God is awesome, but prayer is a sacred thing, its a time when our soul is filled with the Spirit of the Living God and we are at one with Christ in its most purest form. It allows for his voice to be heard in our hearts, soul and mind. We are allowed access to him and he to us. You cannot achieve this concentrated state of prayer if you are doing other things and that is why St. Vianney says you shouldn’t do them.

 

[baltobetsy]

Oh, for heaven’s sake. All this argument over a nit-picky little distinction in terminology. You may not consider an act of praise or thanksgiving to God in the midst of other activity to be a kind of prayer, but most people do.

It reminds me of a story told by a priest. He said a man asked him if it would be acceptable to smoke his pipe while he prayed. The priest said no, but that if he had asked if he could pray while he smoked his pipe, it would have been fine.

It’s all about which action is primary. You can and should add prayer to any activity; it enhances the activity. You should not add any activity to prayer; it detracts from the prayer.

 

[Adam_Cook]

“Oh, for heaven’s sake. All this argument over a nit-picky little distinction in terminology. You may not consider an act of praise or thanksgiving to God in the midst of other activity to be a kind of prayer, but most people do.”

First off, nit-picky little distinction in terminology is the difference between ignorance and true enlightenment of what the truth is. If you don’t look at the full terminology of what people are saying you’ll never understand it.

“It reminds me of a story told by a priest. He said a man asked him if it would be acceptable to smoke his pipe while he prayed. The priest said no, but that if he had asked if he could pray while he smoked his pipe, it would have been fine.”

Second off, the priest was wrong. You should never smoke, it defiles that temple of God, which is your body. Same thing with immoral sex (pre-marital sex), these are considered things that defile our body, which is a temple made to God, for the Holy Spirit inhabits inside.

"It’s all about which action is primary. You can and should add prayer to any activity; it enhances the activity. You should not add any activity to prayer; it detracts from the prayer. "

Again my argument stands, you can’t truly focus on God when your having to take puff, or pull a pipe out of your mouth, all though you shouldn’t be doing it in the first place.

I can’t make you understand, I can only tell you what is and you figure it out for yourself. My prayers are with you sister.

 

[baltobetsy]

Now that I’ve read your profile, I understand your point of view a little better.

 

[Mr.Blank1.5]

Now that I’ve read your profile, I understand your point of view a little better.

Does that mean you’re in agreement?

 

[baltobetsy]

No. It means I think with time and further education he’ll gain some more wisdom, but that it’s useless to argue with him now.

 

[Adam_Cook]

Sister I am sorry that you would say that to be honest for in it you show your pride and ignorance in all but a few words. you may have age but no matter what the world may tell you wisdom does not come from age it comes from God alone. As for this teaching by St Vianney I will pray for your understanding. One thing that we must remember is that only God can give us true understanding, but such wisdom cannot be received if we close our eyes, if we become blind, by hardening our hearts in our own pride.

My prayers are with you sister.

 

[baltobetsy]

One thing that we must remember is that only God can give us true understanding, but such wisdom cannot be received if we close our eyes, if we become blind, by hardening our hearts in our own pride.

An important warning I hope you will also take to heart. You are at a very early stage of your faith life, and there’s a lot for you to learn. When you receive the Gifts of the Holy Spirit at Confirmation, you will find it easier, I’m sure.

 

[Bookcat]

So I thought about this passage from St. Jean-Marie-Baptiste Vianney. Is he saying that praying while doing other things is wrong? I often find myself with urges to say short prayers or petitions whenever I am doing random things. For example, when I am driving, watching tv, etc. Does this mean I must always turn off whatever is on or save prayer for times where there are no distractions? Or am I just reading this wrong?

No…keep the practice. It is* ancient* and very good. They are as St. Augustine calls them …little arrows sent up…

In fact the Catholic Church offers partial indulgences for this sort of thing while one is carrying the duties of life or enduring hardships …when we thus raise our minds in humble trust to God and make at least mentally some pious invocation! (See under the General Grants ‘Grant 1’)

Of course also set aside also a time for more personal prayer …reading the Gospels etc too! (thats more his point)