Prayer for Ramadan

[superamazingman]

Hmm. What to make then about the Good Friday liturgy? Is that the only place we’re allowed to mention other faiths?

People here need to see the film “Of Gods and Men”.

No, but aren’t we praying for their conversion on good Friday?

 

[OraLabora]

We can pray for them as people (for their health, safety, etc.), we can pray for their conversion, we can not pray for them to be good Muslims, b/c to be a good Muslim is the reject the teachings of God.

God Bless

The prayer was specifically for them to have a holy and spiritual Ramadan, not to be “good Muslims”. It implies at least as much if not more than it states. It means being closer to God. That also means perfecting one’s understanding of Him and that leads logically to only one place, Christ’s Church. Perhaps you would have preferred more direct language. I tend to think one attracts more with honey than vinegar, and that respect for a religion encompassing 1 billion people is rather wise and prudent.

The Mass is a public worship, even Muslims are free to attend. Some may in fact do so out of curiosity, or accompanying a Catholic friend. I should think it behooves us to treat them with respect without contradicting our own faith. A carefully worded prayer such as this attempts to strike that balance.

 

[bilop]

Disagree. They are worshipping the God of Abraham with an incomplete understanding of Him. That’s not a false God.

Were the Jews worshipping a false God before Christ because they didn’t know the Trinity? No. They did not possess the fullness of Revelation. Muslims as well do not know the fullness of revelation. That does not mean that all of what they do possess is automatically false. The Church herself admits that other faiths in fact possess some elements of Truth.

The Jews were not worshipping a false God before Christ, because God had not revealed His Triune nature, or even the existence of Christ.

But, once Christ died and rose, Jewish ritual ceased to be efficacious; the Temple veil was torn. Judaism was completely valid before Christ, but not after. At one point, Judaism had salvific power.

Islam, however, is basically a Christian heresy; denying the divinity of Christ. It was never true. It never had salvific power.

God Bless

 

[TrueLight]

Thank you for the clarification.

And, for everyone, here is the text of the prayer that I mentioned in the OP:

“That the month of Ramadan will bring our Muslim brothers and sisters growth
in patience, self-control, and love of community”

Thanks for posting the above text.

Relativism.

If we are to pray at all for Muslims during the month of Ramadan, it would be that through their fasting, God will lead them to the true Church.

We want everyone to grow in “patience, self-control and community”. I don’t see whey we need to pray for Muslims, during mass, in honor of their holy day Ramadan.

 

[bilop]

The prayer was specifically for them to have a holy and spiritual Ramadan, not to be “good Muslims”. It implies at least as much if not more than it states. It means being closer to God. That also means perfecting one’s understanding of Him and that leads logically to only one place, Christ’s Church. Perhaps you would have preferred more direct language. I tend to think one attracts more with honey than vinegar, and that respect for a religion encompassing 1 billion people is rather wise and prudent.

The Mass is a public worship, even Muslims are free to attend. Some may in fact do so out of curiosity, or accompanying a Catholic friend. I should think it behooves us to treat them with respect withou contradicting our own faith. A carefully worded prayer such as this attempts to strike that balance.

A “Holy and spiritual Ramadan” means to act in a Muslim form of worship. If not, why say “holy” and “spiritual”, and why single out Ramadan. Why not just wish every non-Catholic a good month?

I think the prayer should be completely omitted. I agree that a more direct prayer for conversion might do more harm than good.

God Bless

 

[TrueLight]

. A carefully worded prayer such as this attempts to strike that balance.

I disagree my friend.

We are to treat everyone with respect. A Muslim who attends a mass out of curiosity should be struck by our reverence and love for God as well as our love for each other.

He should ask himself, “What do they have that I am missing in Islam? Why do they love each other so? I want to learn more about this religion.”

He shouldn’t leave thinking, “Oh okay. They’re cool peeps. Nice of them to pray for other religions. Too bad they don’t believe in the true religion - Islam.”

 

[pnewton]

Disagree. They are worshipping a false god. The are not worshipping the God of Abraham, because the God of Abraham is Triune.

That is a whole different issue, and one that has been discussed here, and could be again in Non-Catholic Religions. Needless to say, your opinion here is not what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[feed_me]

I disagree my friend.

We are to treat everyone with respect. A Muslim who attends a mass out of curiosity should be struck by our reverence and love for God as well as our love for each other.

He should ask himself, “What do they have that I am missing in Islam? Why do they love each other so? I want to learn more about this religion.”

He shouldn’t leave thinking, “Oh okay. They’re cool peeps. Nice of them to pray for other religions. Too bad they don’t believe in the true religion - Islam.”

And Muslims don’t love each other? There are good Muslims with a good heart and there are bad Muslims. The same way that there are good Christians and bad Christians.

 

[pnewton]

No, but aren’t we praying for their conversion on good Friday?

Not exclusively.

 

[TrueLight]

And Muslims don’t love each other? There are good Muslims with a good heart and there are bad Muslims. The same way that there are good Christians and bad Christians.

I didn’t say Muslims don’t love each other. Nor did I say there are not good Muslims.

Needless to say, one of the hallmarks of Christianity is supposed to be love:

John 13:
34 “A new command(A) I give you: Love one another.(B) As I have loved you, so you must love one another.(C) 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

But we are going off topic.

Being lovingly firm about what we believe in is what draws souls, not pretending our religions are all the same.

 

[feed_me]

I didn’t say Muslims don’t love each other. Nor did I say there are not good Muslims.

Needless to say, one of the hallmarks of Christianity is supposed to be love:

But we are going off topic.

Being lovingly firm about what we believe in is what draws souls, not pretending our religions are all the same.

It’s the same I could say about the Christians that use the Christian name but don’t practice it, and or worse, do worse then the good athiests,because they think that once they die that they will get an automatic ticket to heaven. Yet they got saved and did worse then the athiests .

 

[OraLabora]

I disagree my friend.

We are to treat everyone with respect. A Muslim who attends a mass out of curiosity should be struck by our reverence and love for God as well as our love for each other.

He should ask himself, “What do they have that I am missing in Islam? Why do they love each other so? I want to learn more about this religion.”

He shouldn’t leave thinking, “Oh okay. They’re cool peeps. Nice of them to pray for other religions. Too bad they don’t believe in the true religion - Islam.”

The CCC

1. The Curch’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims, these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
   …
2. The missionary task implies a respectful dialogue with those who do not yet accept the gospel. Believers can profit from this dialogue by learning to appreciate better “those elements of truth and grace which are found among peoples and which are, as it were, a secret presence of God”.

IMHO dialogue is a two-way learning process. There is a lot to learn about piety from Muslims, for instance. Also there are very mystical notions of God’s transcendence and direct personal experience of God.

At the same time I think we have much to offer including Truth but that implies a huge responsibility to not drive a soul further from Truth.

I therefore disagree that discerning what is holy in Islam constitutes “relativism”. It can however constitute a foundation on which to build peaceful coexistence between our respective communities. Because you know, Islam is hardly on the verge of disappearing. We as laity need to dialogue with them at the community and personal level as neighbours. The doctrinal questions are way above our pay grade.

As Christian communities, praying for Muslims’ holiness can only help us coexist as communities.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

The CCC

IMHO dialogue is a two-way learning process. There is a lot to learn about piety from Muslims, for instance. Also there are very mystical notions of God’s transcendence and direct personal experience of God.

At the same time I think we have much to offer including Truth but that implies a huge responsibility to not drive a soul further from Truth.

I therefore disagree that discerning what is holy in Islam constitutes “relativism”. It can however constitute a foundation on which to build peaceful coexistence between our respective communities. Because you know, Islam is hardly on the verge of disappearing. We as laity need to dialogue with them at the community and personal level as neighbours. The doctrinal questions are way above our pay grade.

As Christian communities, praying for Muslims’ holiness can only help us coexist as communities.

I don’t see how praying patience and humility for ANYONE is a bad thing.

Are we only supposed to pray for our friends? That is not really what Jesus taught…

As one who had this also in our prayers this Sunday…I don’t think it was a bad thing at all.

 

[TrueLight]

The CCC

IMHO dialogue is a two-way learning process. There is a lot to learn about piety from Muslims, for instance. Also there are very mystical notions of God’s transcendence and direct personal experience of God.

At the same time I think we have much to offer including Truth but that implies a huge responsibility to not drive a soul further from Truth.

I therefore disagree that discerning what is holy in Islam constitutes “relativism”. It can however constitute a foundation on which to build peaceful coexistence between our respective communities. Because you know, Islam is hardly on the verge of disappearing. We as laity need to dialogue with them at the community and personal level as neighbours. The doctrinal questions are way above our pay grade.

As Christian communities, praying for Muslims’ holiness can only help us coexist as communities.

Dialogue doesn’t have to take place in the Mass.

Discerning what is holy about another religion should not take place in the Mass.

Because you know, Islam is hardly on the verge of disappearing.

I know. And that doesn’t call for us to give up but to get on our knees and pray for their souls.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Dialogue doesn’t have to take place in the Mass.

That prayer was not dialogue

Discerning what is holy about another religion should not take place in the Mass.

Again that wasn’t in that prayer

I know. And that doesn’t call for us to give up but to get on our knees and pray for their souls.

But apparently not during Mass:shrug:

 

[SgtSchultz]

How can those who believe in Ramadan be holy if they are practising a false religion, particularly a religion that is so hostile towards Christians? I’d have to agree with those who say “why not wish Scientologists a ‘holy’ e-meter session”? Neither can ever be holy.

The holy mass is not about other religions and their intentions. I find it extremely offensive. If I were you I’d write to the priest and ask for an explanation. I think yor parish deserves it.

Relativism.

Indeed. This gets too close to multiculturalism and relativism, two of the greatest evils of the modern era.

 

[Windmill]

I swear, some ecumenists would look at Satanists and say, “Well at least they believe in a higher being.” At some point you have to have SOME apostolic zeal.

I can guarantee you this, Muslims hearing such a prayer from Catholics would only serve to convince those Muslims that Christians are ripe for proselytizing to Islam.

 

[TrueLight]

I swear, some ecumenists would look at Satanists and say, “Well at least they believe in a higher being.” At some point you have to have SOME apostolic zeal.

I can guarantee you this, Muslims hearing such a prayer from Catholics would only serve to convince those Muslims that Christians are ripe for proselytizing to Islam.

:sad_yes:

Yes, and before anyone chimes in and says satanists don’t actually believe in Satan or a higher being, let’s amend that to Devil worshipers.

 

[superamazingman]

How can those who believe in Ramadan be holy if they are practising a false religion, particularly a religion that is so hostile towards Christians? I’d have to agree with those who say “why not wish Scientologists a ‘holy’ e-meter session”? Neither can ever be holy.

Exactly. How can they be holy when they are opposed to the God and the religion who makes them holy?

 

[superamazingman]

I swear, some ecumenists would look at Satanists and say, “Well at least they believe in a higher being.” At some point you have to have SOME apostolic zeal.

The so called ecumenism that has happened lately in the church is a sham. Here’s true ecumenism and true love for non-Catholics:

We’re right. You’re wrong. Now get over it and join us. Here’s an RCIA registration form.

Padding the issue, making them think every religion is equal is not only heretical, but just plain stupid, if your goal is to get them to convert.