Prayer never known to fail

[Domiy]

*I don’t. *

Yes, you sub-consciously do (defeat the purpose of prayers dedicated to anyone besides God). We pray to Mary for different things; she is our Holy Mother, said to be the ultimate source of mercy and grace. We pray to her, in honor of her sorrows, for her blessings. Sure, God is top of chain and it is by His glory and power that said things are done, but we can still conclude that we probably wouldn’t have received sad blessings had we not prayed!

*God will only do his Will. Not ours. No matter how much we ask. *

Jesus seems to disagree with you.

Sure, ask for whatever you want. If it aligns with God’s will, the answer is yes.
If it is not in God’s will, game over.

You don’t understand what I’m saying. If we keep asking for something, our prayers will be answered, maybe not directly the way we wanted, but still satisfied. I felt lonely in my life after breaking up with my long girlfriend and having a feud with close friends and family. I felt that there was nobody to comfort me, to love me and to be my friend. Now, I could have just sat there, looked up to God and said “if this is your will, so be it”. But I didn’t. I prayed. I prayed for comfort and love to come my way; for my relationship to perhaps be repaired and for that previous happiness to return. Ultimately, what I got was comfort; but not from friends or family, but from God. I felt Him stretch out his hand and comfort me, tell me He loves me the way I am, and that He has a plan for me. I felt better in the end and was happy, whereas I was previously said. That happiness came from my prayer. God knows what’s good for us, but we need to learn to ask. Rarely do you receive if you don’t ask. If God wanted me to be happy, why wasn’t I happy from the start? Why did my sadness suddenly go away after I prayed for it, but not after years of alternative methods (including, may I add, praying for basic things aside from that happiness)?

*You found the item because it was God’s will that you found it. *

Then why didn’t I find it before after minutes of looking? Why did I only just find after praying for it to St Anthony? Think of it, my keys were misplaced, meaning I had no idea where they were. If they turned out to be in the fridge, I wouldn’t be surprised, neither would I be if they turned up inside my shoe. So, if it was God’s will for me to find the keys, why did He make me lose them in the first place? Why didn’t He just intercede and make the keys pop up in the first place I looked?

Here’s another example. If you mindlessly cross the road and look up and see a truck swerving out of control coming straight at you, would you stand where you are and say “if God wants me to die, I’l die. If not, I’l survive”? No, you would move out of the way. If you hadn’t moved out of the way, you’d be killed, probably by negligence of the driver. But you did move, and because of that you survived. This is because free-will exists. God has set life as it is, and gives us the choice to do with it as we wish. If you take a knife and cut your hand, is it God’s will for you to bleed? No.

*So if we keep persistently praying, we can overrule God’s will and impose our own on him.

Nope. Doesn’t work that way.*

We can’t change His will, but sometimes His will isn’t completely obvious to us until we learn to ask for it. Yeah, He wants us to be happy, but we still need to ask for it! If we don’t ask, He won’t grant.

By denying this theory, you’re also denying the belief that those who pray more are more connected with God! If I pray to Him everyday and you only pray once a year, I think I’l be happier than you. I’m sure when the Pope was just a teenager, talking to girls and going out to parties, he didn’t always want to be Pope. However, he was probably a righteous kid who loved God, so he prayed to God for assistance in serving Him. God granted it by leading him on a journey that lead to him being elected Pope. Now, if he stayed at the party, kissed girls and got drunk everyday instead, would he still be the Pope?

 

[BobCatholic]

Yes, you sub-consciously do (defeat the purpose of prayers dedicated to anyone besides God).

And how do I do that? Simply because I disagree with you?

Jesus seems to disagree with you.

Nope.

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 26:42[/BIBLEDRB]

He said this three times.

[BIBLEDRB]John 6:38[/BIBLEDRB]

How clear is that?

You don’t understand what I’m saying. If we keep asking for something, our prayers will be answered, maybe not directly the way we wanted, but still satisfied.

So if we keep asking, we can browbeat God into at least giving us warm fuzzies. Reward us for asking for things that are outside of his will.

I see.

Then why didn’t I find it before after minutes of looking?

It was God’s will to help but only if you asked. If you didn’t ask but searched on your own power, that was outside of God’s will, the answer was NO, so you didn’t find it. But you asked, and this was within God’s will, so the answer was YES and you found it. I think it was a way of God saying “I’m going to teach you to depend on me and not on you.”

Here’s another example. If you mindlessly cross the road and look up and see a truck swerving out of control coming straight at you, would you stand where you are and say “if God wants me to die, I’l die. If not, I’l survive”? No, you would move out of the way. If you hadn’t moved out of the way, you’d be killed, probably by negligence of the driver. But you did move, and because of that you survived. This is because free-will exists. God has set life as it is, and gives us the choice to do with it as we wish. If you take a knife and cut your hand, is it God’s will for you to bleed? No.

Free will exists, and God’s will is the freest. We cannot change the will of God because that means that God changes (and that is heresy)

We can’t change His will, but sometimes His will isn’t completely obvious to us until we learn to ask for it.

That’s my point.

By denying this theory, you’re also denying the belief that those who pray more are more connected with God!

I don’t deny that theory, I deny that we can change God’s will by praying a ton. We cannot twist God’s arm through a ton of praying and force him to do our will.

It is God’s way or the highway. That’s how it works.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

A decision whether to live v. be killed imminently is hardly a “free will” choice.

It is a choice under threat.

My God doesn’t typically play me like that.

Alan

 

[Dorothy]

I’m a relatively new Carmelite and I haven’t heard of the Flos Carmeli (the prayer OP listed) being used in such a superstitious way. Too bad.

Along this line…I’ve got a problem with the vending machine mentality of praying: insert X prayer Y number of times into God’s ear and Z will happen. This happens with the St. Gertrude Prayer - say it once and 1,000 souls supposedly get out of Purgatory. I like this prayer and say it often but I don’t assume that 5 people repeating the prayer 5 times means that 25,000 folks get to Heaven just like that.

Hi Mary Ellen,

I believe that the statement “1,000 souls will be released from Purgatory” means a large number…and of course that depends on the sincerity of our prayer, not just the saying of words and that’s that.

Welcome to Carmel,…I too, am a Lay Carmelite.

 

[Domiy]

*And how do I do that? Simply because I disagree with you?
*

Yes, because the saints and Mary are not God. Although they work “under” Him, so to speak, people pray to them for specific reasons. Eg - the Virgin Mary being a keeper of grace and mercy. We pray to her for strength, often in times of sexual struggle (due to her virginity). However, many would say that sexual struggles may well be the will of God as a means to test and strengthen us, and for us to show our loyalty to Him. So, God has made us with physical urges and desires, by His will, and we ease those urges and desires by gaining strength from our beloved Mother through prayer. It’s not exactly saying that we can completely change God’s will (that’s one end of the extreme), but it’s certainly not as “locked-in” and “pre-determined” as you seem to think it is (the other end of the extreme). Yes, it may have been God’s will the entire time to help us, but we wouldn’t have received that help from Him if we didn’t pray for it!

How clear is that?

Not as clear as you think it is.

Luke 18: Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’

4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”

6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

Matthew 7:7: "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

We can often relate this to the saying “Do as I say, not as I do”.

In summary; our will may sometimes be the same as God’s will. Sometimes we can feel what God wants of us (ie, a call to priesthood). However, even though it’s God’s will, it won’t happen unless we pray for it and ask. So, we changed our lives through asking God for something that we wanted! If we didn’t pray, it probably wouldn’t have happened as well as it could have!

 

[BobCatholic]

Yes, because the saints and Mary are not God.

I never said they were God.

It’s not exactly saying that we can completely change God’s will (that’s one end of the extreme), but it’s certainly not as “locked-in” and “pre-determined” as you seem to think it is (the other end of the extreme).

God’s will is locked in.

If God’s will can change, that says God can change and that’s heresy.

Luke 18: Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’

4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”

6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

Matthew 7:7: "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

So basically you’re interpreting those verses to mean “If you nag God enough with your prayers, he will cave in and do whatever you want, no matter what His will is. Your will be done, not his”

I don’t agree with that.

In summary; our will may sometimes be the same as God’s will.

And if we pray for something that is God’s will, the answer is yes.

If not, the answer is no.

Simple as that.

That’s how it works.

 

[Domiy]

*I never said they were God.
*

You keep going around in a circle without answering me. If they’re not God, then why do we pray to them?

*God’s will is locked in.

If God’s will can change, that says God can change and that’s heresy.*

Really? I don’t think the concept of God changing is completely unheard of. How do you explain the “new and everlasting covenant with man”? For something to be new, it must be different to the previous, and different from the previous is change. That’s not to say God wasn’t or isn’t perfect, but He certainly has changed his law and expectations on mankind. Things like the 10 Commandments are eternally binding, but Jesus spoke many times about how we are to live our life under his teaching from God, which basically means the Old Testament and the norms in it are not placed on us anymore. Therefore, God’s law and covenant with man has changed.

*So basically you’re interpreting those verses to mean “If you nag God enough with your prayers, he will cave in and do whatever you want, no matter what His will is. Your will be done, not his”

I don’t agree with that.*

No, not that extreme, but still to some extent there is meaning behind it. Like I said, you’re taking one extreme and replacing it with the other. The passage basically means that He may not grant you His will if you don’t want it and pray for it enough.

Consider this for a second as well. What if God told me that I can have a Ferrari. So that night, I pray for a Black Ferrari and it comes the next morning. God wanted me to have a Ferrari; it was His will. However, I wanted it to be black (my will), so God combined His will with my preference. The color won’t make a difference, it’s still a Ferrari. But what if I didn’t pray for it at all. Would it still come? Would it still be black? What if I thought about it a little and prayed again saying that I wanted a red one instead?

God is all-knowing. He knew I would change my mind. He knew I would pray at a specific time; but I didn’t know those things, so He let me pray.

 

[BobCatholic]

You keep going around in a circle without answering me. If they’re not God, then why do we pray to them?

We ask them to pray for us. That’s why.

How do you explain the “new and everlasting covenant with man”?

It was part of God’s will all the way in the beginning. Or you forgot to read Genesis 3? He prophesies the coming of Jesus right there.

The passage basically means that He may not grant you His will if you don’t want it and pray for it enough.

Right. Pay attention to the part that I underlined part…

HIS WILL.

Not my will. Unless it is the same as HIS WILL. Not your will. Unless it is the same as HIS WILL.

Consider this for a second as well. What if God told me that I can have a Ferrari. So that night, I pray for a Black Ferrari and it comes the next morning. God wanted me to have a Ferrari; it was His will. However, I wanted it to be black (my will), so God combined His will with my preference. The color won’t make a difference, it’s still a Ferrari. But what if I didn’t pray for it at all. Would it still come? Would it still be black? What if I thought about it a little and prayed again saying that I wanted a red one instead?

God knew your request from all eternity, his will wasn’t changed or adjusted. Your will was the same as his. Thus you got what you asked for.

 

[Dancingfeet]

Ask and it shall be given you, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened unto you.

 

[BobCatholic]

Ask and it shall be given you, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened unto you.

Even if it is not God’s will.

Right?

How much longer should I wait for a billion dollars after asking and seeking and knocking?

 

[Saints_Alive]

Wow.

Of all the things to argue about.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Wow.

Of all the things to argue about.

Too bad arguing with siblings in Christ over unanswerable questions can inhibit prayer from getting answered. Keeps us from joining the feast as well.

Matt 5:23:24
Therefore, if you bring your gift to the altar, and there recall that your brother has anything against you, leave your gift there at the altar, go first and be reconciled with your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
If fighting were a virtue we’d all be in the kingdom by now. :heaven:

Maybe it isn’t so much that the prayer won’t be answered; more like it isn’t a valid prayer when made by someone who is angry at his brother?

Alan

 

[Dancingfeet]

I don’t think that anybody should ever be let down by following this thread. People come here in the depths of despair and I don’t think they should ever be discouraged from praying and trusting that their prayers will be granted. Prayer could be their only hope. Saying harsh things to the broken-hearted can push them over the edge. God alone knows His own will. The Lord is close to the broken-hearted.

 

[Dancingfeet]

Seek and ye shall find.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I don’t think that anybody should ever be let down by following this thread. People come here in the depths of despair and I don’t think they should ever be discouraged from praying and trusting that their prayers will be granted. Prayer could be their only hope. Saying harsh things to the broken-hearted can push them over the edge. God alone knows His own will. The Lord is close to the broken-hearted.

Praying is one thing. Quid pro quo is another. We’re talking about the kinds of “prayer” whereby a person basically binds God into doing something. That’s the concern here. Not that somebody should not pray for an intention. Certainly that’s not a problem. The problem is that some people pass around prayers like they were candy, with formulas that if you pray according to this regimen, then you will see result X. That’s superstition, so it should be discouraged for anybody who believes superstition is wrong – including me. If others want to engage in superstition – because at least it gives them hope – then that’s fine as long as they know what it is. IMO people would be better off just asking God directly for their intention; if they have faith that a formula will work, then they should have even more faith for their sincere prayer. If they don’t then then they have bigger problems than a formula prayer would solve.

Alan

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Say this prayer for 100 days without missing even a day. If you do miss a day, start back again as soon as you can. Or you can say it on any other schedule you wish.

Dear Lord, I surrender my will to You, and I trust you to guide me on right paths. Please hear my prayers of thanksgiving and praise for You. I want to be the clay in Your loving hands, so that You may mold me into what you want me to be. Please give me a loving and discerning heart so that I may follow you best. Through Jesus our Lord, Amen.

It’s easy to make up a prayer that will never see failure. All you have to do is ask for stuff you know the Lord wants you to have.

Alan

Love it!!! Thank you.

 

[m134e5]

God is not some giant vending machine in the sky who waits for someone to push the right button (or say the right prayer) so He can give them what they want. God is not some unintelligible force that we can learn to control with incantations and use to get what we want. That is witchcraft and is a mortal sin.

God is a person. He loves us, and wants nothing more for us than our eternal happiness. If we spend time strengthening our relationship with him and discerning his will for us, our will should conform more closely to his and we will be happier and more content. Instead of clinging to “never known to fail prayers,” I imagine it would be best to focus on discerning God’s will, and conforming our will to His when the two are not the same.

 

[LJL5]

This conversation reminds me of the argument against vain repetition in reference to the Rosary. Which is wrong thinking.

Listen, praying for help of whatever kind over the course of days or hours with a sincere heart - I can’t find fault with that. Being grateful for favors rendered - I can’t find fault with that. What I may recommend against is expecting that the favor is a result of the prayer. I always hope that in the course of a novena I come to a realization that the help for which I am praying is the help that I can accept with gratitude. I do believe that prayers get answered, but perhaps not with the answer we always hope to receive.

I will pray for you, that you will find what you seek. God bless you.

Laura

 

[BobCatholic]

Amen.

God is only limited by His Will.

If you ask for something that’s not in His Will, game over. The answer is no.
If you ask for something in His Will, the answer is yes.

 

[Kkkk]

Prayer to the Virgin Mary (never known to fail)
Oh most beautiful flower of Mt. Carmel, fruit wine splenderous of
Heaven, Blessed Mother of the Son of God, Immaculate Virgin, assist me in my necessity. Oh Star of the Sea. Help me and show me herein you are my Mother. Oh Holy Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven and Earth, I humbly beseech you from the bottom of my heart to succour me in my necessity.There is none that can withstand your power. Oh show me here you are my Mother. Oh Mary conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to Thee (3 times). Thank you for mercy towards me and mine. Amen. This prayer must be said for 3 consecutive days and after that the request will be granted and the prayer must be published.