Prayer of Pope to Mary: To Whom Would the Apostles have pointed him ..Mary or Jesus?

[ron77nyc]

No, there is no contradiction between Mary and Christ. Mary was the first Christian, and completely passionate and sold out on her devotion to the Lord before, during,a nd after his earthly life.

There is no contradiction between Mary and Jesus. Jesus is our Redeemer, Mary is His mother and the Holy Spirit is our Advocate. Why create contradictions?

No one can come to know Mary without coming to know the Lord. It is just the kind of person she is. May we all be likewise!

How about the Muslims?

However, I would like there to be a whole lot of Fr. Corapi types preaching Christ. I think there is always a need for more good preachers. As far as books, I am kinda partial to the Bible as my favorite book about Christ. I do read other books, but I like that one best.

Have you considered preaching Christ yourself, ron, instead of focusing on the shortcomings of others?

I do preach Christ. I tell people about Jesus. I don’t focus on the shortcomings of others. I focus on incorrect teaching because I have had a lifetime of it and I can smell it from a mile away. When Dr. Miravalle has a hard time convincing people to sign the petition to proclaim Mary co-redemptrix because people as he says have a hard time “getting their mind around it” then maybe that’s saying something. They want Pope Benedict to approve of something that he warned Pope John Paul II not to do.

**National Catholic Reporter , July 18, 1997 by Tim Unsworth **findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_n34_v33/ai_19633321

NCR attempted to reach Dr. Miravalle at Franciscan University but was informed that he was out of the country. Allegedly, he has met privately at least twice with John Paul II.

Talk of “Mary, coredemptrix,” has faded dramatically since Vatican II, largely because of the pastoral and ecumenical difficulties it raises. Its history dates to the patristic era when Mary, by her consent at the Annunciation and her actual maternity, brought redemption into the world.

Early medieval teaching has Mary offering Christ in the sacrifice of the cross. Jesus’ wounds are suffered in Mary’s heart. Thus, she actively shares in the redemptive work of her son.

Later medieval thought places Mary in heaven, distributing the fruits of Christ’s redemption to unworthy sinner. (In Michelangelo’s Sistine Chapel ceiling, we find Mary, standing under Christ’s threatening raised right arm, pleading on behalf of other mortals.)

Such dramatic visions can lead to misunderstandings. They can reduce Christ to one half of a team of redeemers.

This proposed dogma is unique in that it clearly does not enjoy the full support of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith or its prefect, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who cautioned the Holy Father over a year ago not to push the teachings

 

[Peter_J]

There is no contradiction between Mary and Jesus. Jesus is our Redeemer, Mary is His mother and the Holy Spirit is our Advocate.

When Dr. Miravalle has a hard time convincing people to sign the petition to proclaim Mary co-redemptrix because people as he says have a hard time “getting their mind around it” then maybe that’s saying something.

Indeed. To me, it says that the let’s-define-another-Marian-dogma movement is pretty small, and probably not something we should worry too much about.

**National Catholic Reporter , July 18, 1997 by Tim Unsworth **findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_n34_v33/ai_19633321

…

This proposed dogma is unique in that it clearly does not enjoy the full support of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith or its prefect, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who cautioned the Holy Father over a year ago not to push the teachings

I don’t get this paragraph. How does not having the CDF’s full support make it “unique”?

For that matter, are there at the present time even any proposed dogmas that do have the CDF’s support?

 

[ron77nyc]

Indeed. To me, it says that the let’s-define-another-Marian-dogma movement is pretty small, and probably not something we should worry too much about.

catholic.org/prwire/headline.php?ID=4521
ITALY (FEBRUARY 8, 2008) - Cardinals Initiate Worldwide Cardinal-Bishop Petition to Pope Benedict XVI for the Proclamation of a Marian Dogma

Five cardinals have invited every cardinal and bishop in the world to join them in petitioning Pope Benedict XVI to solemnly proclaim the Mother of Jesus as the "Spiritual Mother of humanity” as an ecumenical service of clarification to other religious traditions and to proclaim the full Christian truth about Mary.

I don’t get this paragraph. How does not having the CDF’s full support make it “unique”?

I don’t get the first half but the second half says Cardinal Ratzinger was opposed to it so I wonder why they think they can change his mind now that he is the pope?

 

[Eternaly_Secure]

This thread was closed as it had gone over the 1,000 posting limit…near the end it got “de-railed” quite a bit and went off topic…so starting it up again to see if there are any more replies.

**Prayer of Pope to Mary: To Whom Would the Apostles have pointed him …Mary or Jesus? **

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zenit.org/article-23987?l=english

Excerpt from this article:

The Pope’s leading of the Supplication of the Blessed Virgin of the Rosary, a prayer written by Blessed Bartolo Longo (1841-1926) was one of the high points of this 12th pastoral trip in Italy.

“We implore you to have pity today on the nations that have gone astray, on all Europe, on the whole world, that they might repent and return to your heart,” the text of the prayer reads.

With the words of Bartolo, the Pontiff turned to Mary, saying: “If you will not help us because we are ungrateful and unworthy children of your protection, we will not know to whom to turn.”

>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Question:

**In view of the Pope saying - “*we will not ****know to whom to turn”… *my question is, if the Apostles were standing next to the Pope, to whom do you think they would be advising him to “turn” too …to Mary…or Jesus?

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Peace and God Bless!

The Apostles prayed to God through the one and only mediator Christ.

 

[Thing]

This thread was closed as it had gone over the 1,000 posting limit…near the end it got “de-railed” quite a bit and went off topic…so starting it up again to see if there are any more replies.

**Prayer of Pope to Mary: To Whom Would the Apostles have pointed him …Mary or Jesus? **

---

zenit.org/article-23987?l=english

Excerpt from this article:

The Pope’s leading of the Supplication of the Blessed Virgin of the Rosary, a prayer written by Blessed Bartolo Longo (1841-1926) was one of the high points of this 12th pastoral trip in Italy.

“We implore you to have pity today on the nations that have gone astray, on all Europe, on the whole world, that they might repent and return to your heart,” the text of the prayer reads.

With the words of Bartolo, the Pontiff turned to Mary, saying: “If you will not help us because we are ungrateful and unworthy children of your protection, we will not know to whom to turn.”

>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Question:

**In view of the Pope saying - “*we will not ****know to whom to turn”… *my question is, if the Apostles were standing next to the Pope, to whom do you think they would be advising him to “turn” too …to Mary…or Jesus?

---

Peace and God Bless!

The Apostles would have told him to pray together with them to Christ.
Just as the Pope along with us and with Mary, the Apostles, and all the Saints, pray together to Christ today.

 

[Peter_J]

One of the most interesting lines in that National Catholic Reporter article is:

Talk of “Mary, coredemptrix,” has faded dramatically since Vatican II, largely because of the pastoral and ecumenical difficulties it raises.

I wish they had elaborated a bit more, with regard to what the situation was like in the first half of the 20th century; but in any case the fact that “Mary, coredemptrix” had significantly greater support back then, is very interesting. Arguably, the current “Coredemptrix” movement might even be a spin-off of the “Traditionalist Catholic” movement.

 

[Leeann]

Thanks for posting Eternaly Secure and Thing.