U
upant
Guest
Were they arrested
Prayer request that police actions be held to accountability and transparency
- Status
U
umamibella
Guest
It is up to police to use discretionary powers as to if people breaking the state of emergency laws are arrested or cautioned. I am not sure if the police cautioned or arrested them. I dont think it has been reported in the media. Police were certainly arresting others at that protest and the protests the past weekend.
U
upant
Guest
if they were not arrested, the cops handled it wrong, per the law, per the article
U
umamibella
Guest
Can you show me the State of Emergency law to which you refer so we can discuss it please. An article is not reflecting the law, it is reflecting an emotional situation where a group of people are saying look how nasty Victorian law and the police are in enforcing it.
We are in a State of Emergency and that holds a different set of circumstances to normal law here where 2 people can sit on a park bench and take a break from a protest.
Victorian Police have put out a statement about this incident and other incidents of this nature. People who are caught doing the wrong thing during this period yell and scream loudly about how they should be able to break the law and get away with it.
Police also use discretionary powers during this time. They can drag people out of cars who are caught in the wrong place, jail people who are breaking the law, can choose to investigate or not different issues that are reported.
Last edited:
U
upant
Guest
what S.O.E law, the article says they weren’t arrested. is it fake news?
what is so hard with this? you want to convict elderly people that are sitting on a bench. it doesn’t matter what they were doing, they are now sitting on a bench being harassed. they weren’t approached when they were protesting if they were, and you say an active protest is ongoing, so why pick on 2 elderly folk instead of arresting active protesters.
not wearing a mask is not a reason to harass people that you aren’t going to lock up.
U
umamibella
Guest
I am not sure where you are, and wont ask, since the last question I asked something personal like that flagged me into suspension. Lesson learned.
If you live in Victoria we are under an extended State of Emergency.
- Wearing masks is law. Not wearing a mask without a medical exemption is breaking the law. Police can arrest, charge and throw people in jail for it under the SOE law.
I cannot go and sit on a park bench or sit at the beach because I am breaking the law.
I cannot have visitors in my home under lockdown in Melbourne unless I am a single person where I can elect another person to be in my household bubble.
If I am in regional Victoria I can now elect one other household as my household bubble. That means that household elects me, I elect them and up to and only 5 people from said household can visit the other household. That law will exist until step three of lockdown is eased. I cannot have a group of friends inside my house at all if they are not up to 5 members of the same household that I have elected as my bubble.
- Under SOE law, these are the issues that I can identify , as can all Victorians, the photo subjects included, where they are breaking the law in that photo.
a) They are at a mass gathering (the protest). Mass gatherings are illegal at the moment under SOE law.
b) they are not observing social distancing.
c) they are not , or at least one of them in that photo, is not wearing a mask. If they have exemptions, they should be carrying them and producing them on request.
d) when police ask for details, they must be given. If not and a person is breaking the law, that person can be detained.
e) This is the one I feel you are grappling with, in Melbourne the lockdown is at stage 4. At the time this photo was taken, these laws included:
people only able to exercise within 5 km of their home, for one hour a day. Within 5 km only of their place of residence.
People are not allowed to sit down and pass the exercise hour away anywhere during this time of exercise, they must keep moving.
If this section of the law were not in play, everyone would be at the beach, sitting on the sand, which is a problem during Covid.
That sitting on the sand at the beach in Victoria when people were not meant to, led to stage 4 lockdown, along with the fact that 80 covid positive people were not home or anywhere to be found when police came knocking on their door to check up on them. They were meant to be in isolation in quarantine.
I can assure you if you are not wearing a mask and do not have an exemption and are in Victoria, the police take it very seriously. At best you will get a caution and a hefty fine.
Last edited:
U
upant
Guest
exactly, out of this heavily attended protest, the cops pick 2 elderly people, it must have been an awful peaceful protest if this is the crime that needs a mass cop presence.
the video doesn’t show the story. what it does show is 5 cops on 2 elderly people with one sneaking up behind them and taking the phone (watch the video). if they wanted the phone for the investigation they should have asked for it. this conduct was unbecoming,
the choice of perps is the issue if you have an active illegal protest going on. going after the easy targets I guess.
U
umamibella
Guest
Happy cake icon day Upant
Regarding a peaceful protest, what would you class as one? That is really beside the point though.
The fact is that mass gatherings are illegal in Victoria at the moment. So peaceful or non peaceful is beside the point, illegal is illegal.
BTW I am waiting my turn to become a grandmother. I might be classed as elderly by some. That still does not give me the right to break the law. Why would it?
Should I have a get out of jail free card because I am over a certain age?
The Police did not single out these two, the arrests and confrontations have been covered extensively in the media.
Regarding a peaceful protest, what would you class as one? That is really beside the point though.
The fact is that mass gatherings are illegal in Victoria at the moment. So peaceful or non peaceful is beside the point, illegal is illegal.
Age is not a get out of jail free card to break the law.
I would suggest watching a bit more of the coverage of these protests and forming an opinion based on more information.
BTW I am waiting my turn to become a grandmother. I might be classed as elderly by some. That still does not give me the right to break the law. Why would it?
Should I have a get out of jail free card because I am over a certain age?
Last edited:
U
upant
Guest
you miss the point, were these 2 old folks worth the money and manpower spent on them, or would the police response have been better used elsewhere.
it isn’t about age, etc, it is about the level of their crime and ongoing crime at that time in that area.
the priority and heavy-handedness are extreme, they should have prioritized greater crimes, at least left one cop to deal with the old folks, and the rest should have gone on to bigger fish.
U
umamibella
Guest
Why should we old folks get a free pass to break the law? They were at the protest and obviously part of the roundup of all who were there. Why should the police have to spend any man power on people breaking the law. You are right there, it is a complete waste of tax payers money.
Wear a mask and stay home and stop breaking SOE law.
People may think this isnt serious, what if they are covid positive and at a protest spreading it around? What if their elderly friend gets it and dies? There are so many what ifs.
Queensland has refused to let the Prime Minister into its state unless he agrees to quarantine for 14 days. Australia is taking Covid pretty seriously, as a nation. Sure there are people not happy, would they also carry on like this if it were a war time situation, the SOE meant no lights at night but they decided it was their right to turn a light on, leading to enemy bombers dropping a bomb on the neighbourhood and killing people. Covid is the same thing with the only difference being you cant see it with the naked eye.
Why should 1 police person risk themselves alone in a mob of protesters? That is an invitation for anyone with malicious intent to attack them. There have been quite a few incidents of police being attacked during these protests. Protocol dictates police do not isolate themselves. They dont usually carry guns to protests here, or electric zappers.
Like I said, what is off camera tells the full story. The person who recorded this was quite biased in the recording, and really to tell the full story , should have recorded everything else going on.
Last edited:
U
upant
Guest
thank you for the cake day note,
free pass? 5 cops for 2 old people?
the active protesters (if there were any, none are shown) would seem to be more serious instead of 5 cops ganging up on 2 old folk
implying others aren’t? seems that there are different views on what works. Sweden didn’t lockdown, were they not taking it seriously?
they were 2 old folks sitting on a bench, what mob? if the mob was nearby, that is where the other cops should be.
we see enough with what was posted, 5 cops on 2 old folk with nothing going on in the immediate vicinity of them, it is overhanded harassment.
U
umamibella
Guest
As an elderly person living this in Victoria , I think I have said really all I want to say on this except we elderly are not above the law, noone is.
No matter how much entitlement we believe we have due to any given situation.
I fully support the measures Victoria is taking to eliminate this virus. You play, you pay.
No matter how much entitlement we believe we have due to any given situation.
I fully support the measures Victoria is taking to eliminate this virus. You play, you pay.
Last edited:
U
upant
Guest
U
umamibella
Guest
You too, stay safe from this virus.
L
Lee3
Guest
I have see the “mobs”. They are not very mob-like and not very scary.
Honesty, there is nothing mob like about them when you compare them to let’s say, some protesters in the US for BLM.
It’s true that in every protest there are a few fools/loose cannons that try to do something violent or very over dramatic for air time I suppose, but most protesters (in this context) are peaceful. Things only escalate and become “mob violence” when protesters believe that police themselves are being violent, heavy handed, excessive and unjust.
Ultimately, it’s not either/or situation and two wrongs don’t make a right.
I.e., people shouldn’t protest publicly when there’s full lockdown, but at the same time the police handling of this was very bad and creates a bad image for the police force.
To justify heavy handed responses as ok/acceptable due to Covid is a slippery slope to go down.
Under what other circumstances will they be justified under next?
Police need to be trained to have greater emotional control and to have flexible thinking .
We don’t want an American style of policing where it’s “you do what I say or else”.
Where police can do anything to people they perceive
as resisting arrest.
We have seen where that leads.
Police need better emotional training and not just some simplistic “do what I say, resist arrest or else” model which basically leaves police with zero accountability whatsoever for their missteps/actions.
Regardless of if there a few “bad oldies” in society, most people view elders not in this way.
That is why A Current Affair runs those “funny” stories about “grannies being bad” - they are only sensationalistic and funny because it is a deviation from how elderly normally are (for the most part).
In European countries, you would never/rarely see police act this way to elderly women because they have more respect for elders there.
This situation could have been handled with one officer talking to the women in a polite way, explaining what they were doing was illegal and giving them a caution and saying that he would rather not have to arrest them.
Worse case scenario, he may still have needed to arrest them in the end, but it doesn’t take 5 officers.
It’s not like the grannies were going to ambush him and give him black eyes…
If there were “mobs” nearby that could potentially turn violent, thats even more reason why the police should not have had resources for the 2 elderly.
The remaining 4 should have been focused on “supervising”/deesculating the crowd (if there were growing tensions).
There’s just no justification.
I am sorry @umamibella but it just makes the police here look like out of control bullies.
Clearly they need different training. To reduce crime it’s important to build public trust in the police and not just police by control or fear.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
U
umamibella
Guest
I am using the Australian definition of mob = bunch of people gathered together.
Lets not compare the Victorian protests to any going on elsewhere, it serves no purpose. If police are being attacked, anywhere, there is a problem. Being run over or knocked unconscious , stabbed or bashed doesnt seem to discriminate by country. Or even shot in Sydney.
Lee you might balance those photos up with ones where police are being attacked.
Police are not out of control bullies in Victoria.
The issue is self entitled people who think the law does not relate to them.
Exhibit one , Casey and Dandenong right now.
So here we go again, lockdown extended if its not contained by the hard working police, health professionals and contact tracers.
Imagine people connected to that hotspot attending this weekends protests.
I dont know about you, but I would like to see my family by Christmas and go to the beach.
My children would like to go up to the Gold Coast for a wedding/ holiday.
Last edited:
- Status