Prayer Studies

[Faith1960]

Another thing I’ve been struggling with was a prayer study done several years,ago called the STEP study. Researchers studies heart patients going in for surgery. Some were prayed for, some weren’t. It was the biggest, most comprehensive study of its kind and the results were that prayer had no effect on the outcomes of the patients, and some who knew they were prayed for actually had poorer results.

Does this suggest prayer doesn’t really work? Why or why not?

 

[Lesliej64]

Another thing I’ve been struggling with was a prayer study done several years,ago called the STEP study. Researchers studies heart patients going in for surgery. Some were prayed for, some weren’t. It was the biggest, most comprehensive study of its kind and the results were that prayer had no effect on the outcomes of the patients, and some who knew they were prayed for actually had poorer results.

Does this suggest prayer doesn’t really work? Why or why not?

I am not sure whether this prayer study was done to just to test God or done without love and faith for God, but with presumption by people who did not really believe or love God.

Better results maybe observed with people who have had some experience praying for others since many years and already have had results.

It depends who is praying, how he/she prays, the qualification or preparation of the minister before the prayer on the patient, the faith/love, the intensity, the motives, the intention, etc., the minister has within himself/herself.

Also, the patient’s sinful condition, guilt, fear, resentment, unforgiveness, bitterness, spiritual bondage etc. Thorough preparation of the patient’s heart and mind using scripture, confession, spiritual counseling, reassurance etc., His or her full agreement in acceptance of prayer, their love for God and expectant faith to receive the benefits of prayer by an anointed prayerful person. Sometimes, only a single session is needed and sometimes many such sessions or much longer.

Many such things as above may have to be noted by an experienced minister or ministers with some spiritual discernment. There may also have to be some constant and continuous intercessory prayers (with abstinence/fasting) by their relatives, friends, church members, etc., more the better. Otherwise, you will rarely see any good results or will see only disappointingly negative results. This is all sometimes needed because dark spiritual powers would want unbelieving people to experience firsthand the power of God and will try to oppose as much as possible.

There should be some optimistic spiritual openness and strong faith at least on one side (either with the patient or the minister) to get some result. If both sides are fully open spiritually, divine intervention is bond to take place and one may see even physical healing, cure and miracles.

Even when there is no healing here or instead just hastening of death, you will see overflowing grace. The patient may be filled with love, joy and peace, and accepting of his/her condition and even ready to pass away happy without regrets!

 

[Lesliej64]

Another thing I’ve been struggling with was a prayer study done several years,ago called the STEP study. Researchers studies heart patients going in for surgery. Some were prayed for, some weren’t. It was the biggest, most comprehensive study of its kind and the results were that prayer had no effect on the outcomes of the patients, and some who knew they were prayed for actually had poorer results.

Does this suggest prayer doesn’t really work? Why or why not?

I am not sure whether this prayer study was done to just to test God or done without love and faith for God, but with presumption by people who did not really believe or love God.

Better results maybe observed with people who have had some experience praying for sick for many years and already have had results as part of a healing ministry.

It depends who is praying, how he/she prays, the qualification or preparation of the minister before the prayer on the patient, the spiritual condition, the faith, the motives, the intention, etc., the minister has within himself/herself.

Also, the patient’s sinful condition, guilt, fear, resentment, unforgiveness, bitterness, spiritual bondage etc., may have to be considered. A thorough preparation of the patient’s heart and mind using scripture, confession, spiritual counseling, reassurance, etc., may be needed. His or her full agreement in receiving the prayer, their love for God and expectant faith to receive the benefits of prayer by an anointed prayerful person/persons. Sometimes, only a single session is needed and sometimes many such sessions.

Many such things as above may have to be noted by an experienced minister or ministers with some spiritual discernment. There may also have to be some constant and continuous intercessory prayers (with abstinence/fasting) by their relatives, friends, church members, etc., more the better. Otherwise, you will rarely see any good results or will see only disappointingly negative results. This is all sometimes needed because dark spiritual powers would not want people to experience firsthand the mercy and power of God and will try to oppose as much as possible.

In short, there should be spiritual openness and strong faith at least on one side (either with the patient or with the minister) to get some result. If both sides are fully open spiritually to God, divine intervention is bond to take place and one may see even physical healing, cures and miracles.

Even when there is no healing here or instead just hastening of death, you will see overflowing grace. The patient may be filled with love, joy, peace, forgiveness, humbleness, and accepting of his/her condition and even ready to pass away happy without regrets!

 

[Lesliej64]

I am not sure whether this prayer study was done to just to test God or done without love and faith for God, but with presumption by people who did not really believe or love God.

Better results maybe observed with people who have had some experience praying for others since many years and already have had results.

It depends who is praying, how he/she prays, the qualification or preparation of the minister before the prayer on the patient, the faith/love, the intensity, the motives, the intention, etc., the minister has within himself/herself.

Also, the patient’s sinful condition, guilt, fear, resentment, unforgiveness, bitterness, spiritual bondage etc. Thorough preparation of the patient’s heart and mind using scripture, confession, spiritual counseling, reassurance etc., His or her full agreement in acceptance of prayer, their love for God and expectant faith to receive the benefits of prayer by an anointed prayerful person. Sometimes, only a single session is needed and sometimes many such sessions or much longer.

Many such things as above may have to be noted by an experienced minister or ministers with some spiritual discernment. There may also have to be some constant and continuous intercessory prayers (with abstinence/fasting) by their relatives, friends, church members, etc., more the better. Otherwise, you will rarely see any good results or will see only disappointingly negative results. This is all sometimes needed because dark spiritual powers would want unbelieving people to experience firsthand the power of God and will try to oppose as much as possible.

There should be some optimistic spiritual openness and strong faith at least on one side (either with the patient or the minister) to get some result. If both sides are fully open spiritually, divine intervention is bond to take place and one may see even physical healing, cure and miracles.

Even when there is no healing here or instead just hastening of death, you will see overflowing grace. The patient may be filled with love, joy and peace, and accepting of his/her condition and even ready to pass away happy without regrets!

Hi,

Please replace the above post with one below this.

Thanks.

I am not sure whether this prayer study was done to just to test God or done without love and faith for God, but with presumption by people who did not really believe or love God.

Better results maybe observed with people who have had some experience praying for sick for many years and already have had results as part of a healing ministry.

It depends who is praying, how he/she prays, the qualification or preparation of the minister before the prayer on the patient, the spiritual condition, the faith, the motives, the intention, etc., the minister has within himself/herself.

Also, the patient’s sinful condition, guilt, fear, resentment, unforgiveness, bitterness, spiritual bondage etc., may have to be considered. A thorough preparation of the patient’s heart and mind using scripture, confession, spiritual counseling, reassurance, etc., may be needed. His or her full agreement in receiving the prayer, their love for God and expectant faith to receive the benefits of prayer by an anointed prayerful person/persons. Sometimes, only a single session is needed and sometimes many such sessions.

Many such things as above may have to be noted by an experienced minister or ministers with some spiritual discernment. There may also have to be some constant and continuous intercessory prayers (with abstinence/fasting) by their relatives, friends, church members, etc., more the better. Otherwise, you will rarely see any good results or will see only disappointingly negative results. This is all sometimes needed because dark spiritual powers would not want people to experience firsthand the mercy and power of God and will try to oppose as much as possible.

In short, there should be spiritual openness and strong faith at least on one side (either with the patient or with the minister) to get some result. If both sides are fully open spiritually to God, divine intervention is bond to take place and one may see even physical healing, cures and miracles.

Even when there is no healing here or instead just hastening of death, you will see overflowing grace. The patient may be filled with love, joy, peace, forgiveness, humbleness, and accepting of his/her condition and even ready to pass away happy without regrets!

 

[Lesliej64]

I am not sure whether this prayer study was done to just to test God or done without love and faith for God, but with presumption by people who did not really believe or love God.

Even when there is no healing here or instead just hastening of death, you will see overflowing grace. The patient may be filled with love, joy and peace, and accepting of his/her condition and even ready to pass away happy without regrets!

Hi,

Replacing the above post with one below this.

Thanks.

I am not sure whether this prayer study was done to just to test God or done without love and faith for God, but with presumption by people who did not really believe or love God.

Better results maybe observed with people who have had some experience praying for sick for many years and already have had results as part of a healing ministry.

It depends who is praying, how he/she prays, the qualification or preparation of the minister before the prayer on the patient, the spiritual condition, the faith, the motives, the intention, etc., the minister has within himself/herself.

Also, the patient’s sinful condition, guilt, fear, resentment, unforgiveness, bitterness, spiritual bondage etc., may have to be considered. A thorough preparation of the patient’s heart and mind using scripture, confession, spiritual counseling, reassurance, etc., may be needed. His or her full agreement in receiving the prayer, their love for God and expectant faith to receive the benefits of prayer by an anointed prayerful person/persons. Sometimes, only a single session is needed and sometimes many such sessions.

Many such things as above may have to be noted by an experienced minister or ministers with some spiritual discernment. There may also have to be some constant and continuous intercessory prayers (with abstinence/fasting) by their relatives, friends, church members, etc., more the better. Otherwise, you will rarely see any good results or will see only disappointingly negative results. This is all sometimes needed because dark spiritual powers would not want people to experience firsthand the mercy and power of God and will try to oppose as much as possible.

In short, there should be spiritual openness and strong faith at least on one side (either with the patient or with the minister) to get some result. If both sides are fully open spiritually to God, divine intervention is bond to take place and one may see even physical healing, cures and miracles.

Even when there is no healing here or instead just hastening of death, you will see overflowing grace. The patient may be filled with love, joy, peace, forgiveness, humbleness, and accepting of his/her condition and even ready to pass away happy without regrets!

 

[Lesliej64]

I am not sure whether this prayer study was done to just to test God or done without love and faith for God, but with presumption by people who did not really believe or love God.

Even when there is no healing here or instead just hastening of death, you will see overflowing grace. The patient may be filled with love, joy and peace, and accepting of his/her condition and even ready to pass away happy without regrets!

Hi,

Please replace the above post with one below this.

Thanks.

I am not sure whether this prayer study was done to just to test God or done without love and faith for God, but with presumption by people who did not really believe or love God.

Better results maybe observed with people who have had some experience praying for sick for many years and already have had results as part of a healing ministry.

It depends who is praying, how he/she prays, the qualification or preparation of the minister before the prayer on the patient, the spiritual condition, the faith, the motives, the intention, etc., the minister has within himself/herself.

Also, the patient’s sinful condition, guilt, fear, resentment, unforgiveness, bitterness, spiritual bondage etc., may have to be considered. A thorough preparation of the patient’s heart and mind using scripture, confession, spiritual counseling, reassurance, etc., may be needed. His or her full agreement in receiving the prayer, their love for God and expectant faith to receive the benefits of prayer by an anointed prayerful person/persons. Sometimes, only a single session is needed and sometimes many such sessions.

Many such things as above may have to be noted by an experienced minister or ministers with some spiritual discernment. There may also have to be some constant and continuous intercessory prayers (with abstinence/fasting) by their relatives, friends, church members, etc., more the better. Otherwise, you will rarely see any good results or will see only disappointingly negative results. This is all sometimes needed because dark spiritual powers would not want people to experience firsthand the mercy and power of God and will try to oppose as much as possible.

In short, there should be spiritual openness and strong faith at least on one side (either with the patient or with the minister) to get some result. If both sides are fully open spiritually to God, divine intervention is bond to take place and one may see even physical healing, cures and miracles.

Even when there is no healing here or instead just hastening of death, you will see overflowing grace. The patient may be filled with love, joy, peace, forgiveness, humbleness, and accepting of his/her condition and even ready to pass away happy without regrets!

 

[Faith1960]

Another thing I’ve been struggling with was a prayer study done several years,ago called the STEP study. Researchers studies heart patients going in for surgery. Some were prayed for, some weren’t. It was the biggest, most comprehensive study of its kind and the results were that prayer had no effect on the outcomes of the patients, and some who knew they were prayed for actually had poorer results.

Does this suggest prayer doesn’t really work?

 

[Faith1960]

​

Thanks.Anyone else? I’m really having trouble with this.

 

[Faith1960]

The study was done with the help of Herbert Benson and the Tempelton Foundation, who expected positive results on prayer and healing. I’m trying to find something that would prove the study faulty or something but I can’t find anything. Help!

 

[Faith1960]

Approx. 96% of the patients said they had people already praying for them, that and one of the three Christian groups praying for the patients was,Unity, which is New Agey. Would these factors skew the results? Anyone?

 

[Estevao]

IMO not really, try reading this chapter from C.S. Lewis’ Screwtape Letters

bestlibraryspot.net/fantasticfiction/2010/139/5928.html

particularly this paragraph:

But since your patient has contracted the terrible habit of obedience, he will probably continue such “crude” prayers whatever you do. But you can worry him with the haunting suspicion that the practice is absurd and can have no objective result. Don’t forget to use the “heads I win, tails you lose” argument. If the thing he prays for doesn’t happen, then that is one more proof that petitionary prayers don’t work; if it does happen, he will, of course, be able to see some of the physical causes which led up to it, and “therefore it would have happened anyway”, and thus a granted prayer becomes just as good a proof as a denied one that prayers are ineffective.

Even if this study had been successful in showing the efficacy of prayer in recovery rates, you’d still have people looking for physical causes for that. There was this study that came out recently demonstrating consciousness after supposed brain death and cessation of brain activity. There are people who are criticizing it nevertheless.

Jesus promised that if you tried with faith, He would answer. Ask and you shall receive.

I used to ask myself these questions, going from atheism and materialism as I believed to theism. I think you can answer all these questions, so I would encourage you to keep doing so, but I think eventually you have to start praying with faith. Even if Catholicism can be rationally demonstrated, and you intellectually know it’s true, that’s just an act of faith. The life of prayer and the spirit takes effort and work, but God will make himself known to you in due time…
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

I. OBJECTIONS TO PRAYER

2726 In the battle of prayer, we must face in ourselves and around us erroneous notions of prayer. Some people view prayer as a simple psychological activity, others as an effort of concentration to reach a mental void. Still others reduce prayer to ritual words and postures. Many Christians unconsciously regard prayer as an occupation that is incompatible with all the other things they have to do: they “don’t have the time.” Those who seek God by prayer are quickly discouraged because they do not know that prayer comes also from the Holy Spirit and not from themselves alone.

2727 We must also face the fact that certain attitudes deriving from the mentality of “this present world” can penetrate our lives if we are not vigilant. For example, some would have it that only that is true which can be verified by reason and science; yet prayer is a mystery that overflows both our conscious and unconscious lives. Others overly prize production and profit; thus prayer, being unproductive, is useless. Still others exalt sensuality and comfort as the criteria of the true, the good, and the beautiful; whereas prayer, the “love of beauty” (philokalia), is caught up in the glory of the living and true God. Finally, some see prayer as a flight from the world in reaction against activism; but in fact, Christian prayer is neither an escape from reality nor a divorce from life.

2728 Finally, our battle has to confront what we experience as failure in prayer: discouragement during periods of dryness; sadness that, because we have "great possessions,"15 we have not given all to the Lord; disappointment over not being heard according to our own will; wounded pride, stiffened by the indignity that is ours as sinners; our resistance to the idea that prayer is a free and unmerited gift; and so forth. The conclusion is always the same: what good does it do to pray? To overcome these obstacles, we must battle to gain humility, trust, and perseverance.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1c3a2.htm

 

[Faith1960]

IMO not really, try reading this chapter from C.S. Lewis’ Screwtape Letters

bestlibraryspot.net/fantasticfiction/2010/139/5928.html

particularly this paragraph:

Even if this study had been successful in showing the efficacy of prayer in recovery rates, you’d still have people looking for physical causes for that. There was this study that came out recently demonstrating consciousness after supposed brain death and cessation of brain activity. There are people who are criticizing it nevertheless.

Jesus promised that if you tried with faith, He would answer. Ask and you shall receive.

I used to ask myself these questions, going from atheism and materialism as I believed to theism. I think you can answer all these questions, so I would encourage you to keep doing so, but I think eventually you have to start praying with faith. Even if Catholicism can be rationally demonstrated, and you intellectually know it’s true, that’s just an act of faith. The life of prayer and the spirit takes effort and work, but God will make himself known to you in due time…

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p4s1c3a2.htm

You said “not really”, which question of mine were you answering?

 

[Estevao]

You said “not really”, which question of mine were you answering?

Does this suggest prayer doesn’t really work?

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

The premise of the test is that God would naturally have parsed the beneficiaries of the prayer intentions, in the same way as those who were praying?

If there are three people wounded and if I pray for one of the but not the others, does that mean that God must answer the prayer in my “expected” format by differentially applying it to one and not the other? It sounds like we are expecting to “catch” God in a trap that we think would have caught us.

If we are all one spirit and one body, how can we pray that part of the body is healed and another part isn’t? What we do to the least of Jesus’s siblings, we do to Him. Therefore, if we pray for any of them at all, we pray as for Jesus. That’s like saying, “God cure my cancer but you can leave that cataract alone.” Maybe God chose to treat both? Maybe the prayers helped all those in need and not just the specific ones named? If I pray for a specific cancer patient, who am I to tell God that He should not be pleased to heal more than one?

God doesn’t seem to be too picky about whom He blesses … Matt 5:44-45:
But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

Regardless of the intentions of the study, to try to “measure” God’s work using human standards of evidence, is essentially “testing God.”

But just because we should not test Him doesn’t mean we haven’t, and doesn’t mean He evades us. Statistically speaking, the chances that I survived as many close calls as I have during my life is overwhelming circumstantial evidence in favor of the power of prayer. Some really great and holy people have prayed for me, and by the numbers I have been way too lucky, way too many times for there not to have been some Divine Intervention IMO.

MS

 

[Faith1960]

The premise of the test is that God would naturally have parsed the beneficiaries of the prayer intentions, in the same way as those who were praying?

If there are three people wounded and if I pray for one of the but not the others, does that mean that God must answer the prayer in my “expected” format by differentially applying it to one and not the other? It sounds like we are expecting to “catch” God in a trap that we think would have caught us.

If we are all one spirit and one body, how can we pray that part of the body is healed and another part isn’t? What we do to the least of Jesus’s siblings, we do to Him. Therefore, if we pray for any of them at all, we pray as for Jesus. That’s like saying, “God cure my cancer but you can leave that cataract alone.” Maybe God chose to treat both? Maybe the prayers helped all those in need and not just the specific ones named? If I pray for a specific cancer patient, who am I to tell God that He should not be pleased to heal more than one?

God doesn’t seem to be too picky about whom He blesses … Matt 5:44-45:
But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

Regardless of the intentions of the study, to try to “measure” God’s work using human standards of evidence, is essentially “testing God.”

But just because we should not test Him doesn’t mean we haven’t, and doesn’t mean He evades us. Statistically speaking, the chances that I survived as many close calls as I have during my life is overwhelming circumstantial evidence in favor of the power of prayer. Some really great and holy people have prayed for me, and by the numbers I have been way too lucky, way too many times for there not to have been some Divine Intervention IMO.

MS

95%or96% reported that friends and family were praying for them. Did that skew the results?

 

[CB_Catholic]

95%or96% reported that friends and family were praying for them. Did that skew the results?

You are getting upset over nothing. Your questioning is needless and unproductive. You cannot prove or disprove anything on the basis of one study. You need multiple studies done under controlled circumstances done over a period of time by people trained in proper research and statistical methods to come up with a verifiable conclusion. And even then, questions can be raised.

I would urge you to stop your questioning and worrying over this and instead do what Jesus told us to do. It is simple, and we don’t need a bunch of statistics to prove anything. He said to bring your requests in his name to the Father in prayer. Then leave it there. Your prayers WILL be answered, but according to God’s will, not yours. You may not get the answer you want, but it will be the answer you NEED and will be the RIGHT answer. Too many of us, myself included, complicate things and look for answers in places we don’t need to.

God bless you.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

95%or96% reported that friends and family were praying for them. Did that skew the results?

That I can’t answer, since I didn’t see the actual study. I can guess what that implies, but don’t know what it means w.r.t. the experiment.

MS

 

[Faith1960]

You are getting upset over nothing. Your questioning is needless and unproductive. You cannot prove or disprove anything on the basis of one study. You need multiple studies done under controlled circumstances done over a period of time by people trained in proper research and statistical methods to come up with a verifiable conclusion. And even then, questions can be raised.

I would urge you to stop your questioning and worrying over this and instead do what Jesus told us to do. It is simple, and we don’t need a bunch of statistics to prove anything. He said to bring your requests in his name to the Father in prayer. Then leave it there. Your prayers WILL be answered, but according to God’s will, not yours. You may not get the answer you want, but it will be the answer you NEED and will be the RIGHT answer. Too many of us, myself included, complicate things and look for answers in places we don’t need to.

God bless you.

Its easy for you to say, assuming your not anxious, worried and in a depression over this.

 

[Faith1960]

1. 
   

   That I can’t answer, since I didn’t see the actual study. I can guess what that implies, but don’t know what it means w.r.t. the experiment.
   
   MS

   It’s called the STEP Study, funded mostly by the Templeton Foundation.
   They studied over 1000 bypass patients from, I think 6 hospitals, over period of I think 10 years.
   Patients were put into one of three groups.
   Group 1 and 2 were told they may or may not be prayed for.
   GROup 1 was prayed for without them knowing for sure.
   Group 2 wasnt prayed for and didn’t know for sure.
   GROup 3 was told they were being prayed for and were.
   
   The outcome of the study revealed that Groups,1 and,2 had the same results, group 3 did a little worse, suffering complications.
   
   95% or 96% of all the patients said that friends and relatives were praying for them.
   One would also wonder if nurses, hospital chaplains and other hospital personnel prayed without their knowledge.

 

[Faith1960]

I am not sure whether this prayer study was done to just to test God or done without love and faith for God, but with presumption by people who did not really believe or love God.

Better results maybe observed with people who have had some experience praying for others since many years and already have had results.

It depends who is praying, how he/she prays, the qualification or preparation of the minister before the prayer on the patient, the faith/love, the intensity, the motives, the intention, etc., the minister has within himself/herself.

Also, the patient’s sinful condition, guilt, fear, resentment, unforgiveness, bitterness, spiritual bondage etc. Thorough preparation of the patient’s heart and mind using scripture, confession, spiritual counseling, reassurance etc., His or her full agreement in acceptance of prayer, their love for God and expectant faith to receive the benefits of prayer by an anointed prayerful person. Sometimes, only a single session is needed and sometimes many such sessions or much longer.

Many such things as above may have to be noted by an experienced minister or ministers with some spiritual discernment. There may also have to be some constant and continuous intercessory prayers (with abstinence/fasting) by their relatives, friends, church members, etc., more the better. Otherwise, you will rarely see any good results or will see only disappointingly negative results. This is all sometimes needed because dark spiritual powers would want unbelieving people to experience firsthand the power of God and will try to oppose as much as possible.:

There should be some optimistic spiritual openness and strong faith at least on one side (either with the patient or the minister) to get some result. If both sides are fully open spiritually, divine intervention is bond to take place and one may see even physical healing, cure and miracles.

Even when there is no healing here or instead just hastening of death, you will see overflowing grace. The patient may be filled with love, joy and peace, and accepting of his/her condition and even ready to pass away happy without regrets!

The study was done to see if God answers prayer. The pray-ers were Carmelite nuns, nuns from some other monetary, and the Unity churc, which is kind of New Agey. I think Unity church members rely on prayer and don’t see doctors, but I’m not sure about that. Anyway, the pray-ers are all God loving, prayerful people.