Prayer to saints

[Fitz1901]

I have been debating with some protestant friends of mine about prayer to the saints and I was doing great until one of them pulled out Rev 6:11 on me

“And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled”

How can the saints here are prayer if they are resting?? doesn’t this verse contradict our believe that the saints know what is going on in the world and can therefore pray for us.

answers based on scripture will be most appreciated ( as I really can’t go at them with the catechism, it wouldn’t prove much to protestants

thank you

 

[edwest2]

The quote from Revelation refers to rest but that does not mean the saints are doing nothing. Once their fellow servants are killed as they were, the end comes and Jesus reapears on earth.

Here is what we, as Catholics, are taught about praying to saints:

catholic.com/library/praying_to_the_saints.asp

God bless,
Ed

 

[Tantum_ergo]

God ‘rested’ on the seventh day. . .yet I think He was still perfectly cognizant and aware on that day, no?

The saints ‘hear our prayer’ through God. . .NOT in and of themselves. Since GOD does not ever ‘stop hearing’ (even when He ‘rests’) the saints aren’t going to stop hearing either.

 

[Ruthie]

First, let’s put that verse in context.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
Rev 6:9-11 (RSV)

Note that “they” are “those who had been slain for the word of God.” Not all saints are slain martyrs. Our Lady, for example, died a natural death.

Second, the word “rest” in v. 11, according to Strong’s, means something like “relax,” rather than to sleep or to do nothing. It’s the same as Sunday being a day of rest – but nothing prevents us from doing good works on Sunday, just as Jesus often healed on the Sabbath. So this verse does not mean these particular martyrs do not pray or can not intercede for us.

Now let’s look at two more passages in Revelation: 5:8 and 8:3.

And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;
Rev 5:8 (RSV)

And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne;
Rev 8:3 (RSV)

The prayers of the saints ascend before the throne. Obviously then, saints do pray! Where does it say that they cannot pray for us, which is all we ask them to do?

And if your Protestant friend tells you that these saints are the living – ask him to prove it.

Last but not least, take a look at the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, Luke 16:19-31. Note that the rich man prays to Abraham, who is one of the saints, and Jesus nowhere says this is wrong.

Hope this helps,

Ruthie

 

[packermann]

Ask your Protestant friend if he believes in “soul-sleep”. Unless he is a Seventh-Day Adventist, he will say “no”. Soul-sleep is the belief that our souls are totally unconcious from death to the resurrection. This belief is rejected by the Catholic Church AND all Protestants other than Seventh-Day Adventists.

So if he does not believe in soul-sleep, then obviously this verse about the rest of the souls cannot mean that the souls are completely unconscious. And if they are not completely unconcious, that means that they must be aware of some things. And if they are aware of some things, then this verse cannot be used to show they are not concious of what is happening on earth.

• When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” *

Rev 6:9,10

According to this verse, these souls very much conscious. They are concious ennough to talk to God. And they are conscious enough to know that that those who dwelt non the earth have not been judged yet.

So the rest of the soul does not mean the soul is unconcious. I myself am resting on my recliner while I am writing, but that does not mean that I am unconcious of what I am writing (although at times I have been accused of that).