Prayer to the Blessed Virgin

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Priscilla_Ann

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I know that Catholics say that they do not pray TO Mary; however, I found this published in my local paper this morning:

PRAYER TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN

“(Never known to all) Oh, most beautiful flowers of Mount Carmel, fruitful vine, splendor of Heaven, Blessed Mother of the Son of God, Immaculate Virgin, assist me in my necessity. Oh, Star of the Sea, help me and show me, herein you are my mother. Oh, Holy Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven and Earth! I humbly beseech you from the bottom of my heart to succor me in this necessity. There are none that can withstand your power. Oh, show me herein you are my mother. Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee (3X). Holy Spirit, you who solve all problems, light all roads so I can attain my goal. You who have the divine gift to forgive and forget all evil against me and that in all instances in my life, you are with me. I want in this short prayer to thank you for all things as I confirm once again that I never want to be separated from you in eternal glory. Thank you for your mercy toward me and mine. The person must say this prayer for 3 consecutive days. After 3 days, the request will be granted. This prayer must be published after the favor is granted.”

I know that Catholics say that this is the same as asking friend to pray for us, but is it really? The prayer addresses Mary in the same way as it addresses the Holy Spirit. Is Mary equal to the Holy Spirit?

What about the superstition? The prayer says, “You must say this prayer for 3 consecutive days. After 3 days, the request will be granted. This prayer must be published after the favor is granted.”

I don’t want to argue, but I’m really trying to understand this type of prayer.
 
There are two issues raised by your posting:
  1. The first, the flowery style of the prayer. This is touched on in the Ask an Apologist column in a recent question about “slavery to the Virgin”. The reply talks about this. I would give a direct link, but my mouse died, and I’m having to use a trackball, which I’m a bit clumsy at.
  2. The idea that if you say the right words the right way–and in this case, the right number of times–God will HAVE to do your bidding (“your request will be granted”) is not Christianity but magic and sorcery. That’s the MAIN thing wrong with this prayer.
 
I reeeeeally don’t like it when good prayers get trashed by superstition like the chain prayer to St. Jude one often finds adorning the pews occassionaly! If you want an uncorrupted version of this prayer, I suggest you look for it in the Raccolta or contact a Carmel that has contact via the Net with the world and ask for some authentic prayer resources to Our Lady of Mt. Carmel.

Peace,

Gail
 
Yes, don’t confuse poetic language for actual doctrine. Mary is not the source of power. It is by Christ that any of our prayers have any power at all.

For example:
“With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, “I am he who is”.” (St. Louis de Montfort’s True Devotion to Mary, 1.14)

**Catechism #492 ***The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son”. *
The ending of that prayer is not something doctrinal whatsoever. It sounds more like it was added by an individual hoping to get people to pray it. (Perhaps it is drawn from the “3rd” day before the miracle in Jn 2:1) I’m not fond of those formulas either, but they are certainly not doctrinal. The good news is, if you would like to pray to Mary for her intercession, you can come up with your own prayer, or find one that is more suitable to your comfort. I would recommend to anyone to bring their concerns to her, for she will bring them to Jesus, and sometimes miracles even result (Jn 2:1-11). 🙂

Getting close to Mary in this way will draw you close to Jesus, which is the whole point of devotion to Mary.
 
Priscilla_Ann said:
I know that Catholics say that they do not pray TO Mary; however, I found this published in my local paper this morning:

PRAYER TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN

“(Never known to all) Oh, most beautiful flowers of Mount Carmel, fruitful vine, splendor of Heaven, Blessed Mother of the Son of God, Immaculate Virgin, assist me in my necessity. Oh, Star of the Sea, help me and show me, herein you are my mother. Oh, Holy Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven and Earth! I humbly beseech you from the bottom of my heart to succor me in this necessity. There are none that can withstand your power. Oh, show me herein you are my mother. Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee (3X). Holy Spirit, you who solve all problems, light all roads so I can attain my goal. You who have the divine gift to forgive and forget all evil against me and that in all instances in my life, you are with me. I want in this short prayer to thank you for all things as I confirm once again that I never want to be separated from you in eternal glory. Thank you for your mercy toward me and mine. The person must say this prayer for 3 consecutive days. After 3 days, the request will be granted. This prayer must be published after the favor is granted.”

I know that Catholics say that this is the same as asking friend to pray for us, but is it really? The prayer addresses Mary in the same way as it addresses the Holy Spirit. Is Mary equal to the Holy Spirit?

What about the superstition? The prayer says, “You must say this prayer for 3 consecutive days. After 3 days, the request will be granted. This prayer must be published after the favor is granted.”

I don’t want to argue, but I’m really trying to understand this type of prayer.
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You bring up some excellent points. There are a large number of Marain and hymns that are troubling. Below is part of a prayer called Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary

Holy Mary, – Pray for us. (repeat at end of each phrase.)
Holy Mother of God,
Holy Virgin of virgins,
Mother of Christ,
Mother of divine grace,
Mother most pure,
Mother most chaste,
Mother inviolate,
Mother undefiled,
Mother most amiable,
Mother most admirable,
Mother of good counsel,
Mother of our Creator,
Mother of our Savior,
Virgin most prudent,
Virgin most venerable,
Virgin most renowned,
Virgin most powerful,
Virgin most merciful,
Virgin most faithful,
Mirror of justice,
Seat of wisdom,
Cause of our joy,
Spiritual vessel,
Vessel of honor,
Singular vessel of devotion,
Mystical rose,
Tower of David,
Tower of ivory,
House of gold,
Ark of the covenant,
Gate of Heaven,
Morning star,
Health of the sick,
Refuge of sinners,
Comforter of the afflicted,
Help of Christians,
Queen of Angels,
Queen of Patriarchs,
Queen of Prophets,
Queen of Apostles,
Queen of Martyrs,
Queen of Confessors,
Queen of Virgins,
Queen of all Saints,
Queen conceived without Original Sin,
Queen assumed into Heaven,
Queen of the most holy rosary,
Queen of Peace.

What conclusions would you draw from such a prayer?
 
MarcoPolo said:
Yes, don’t confuse poetic language for actual doctrine. Mary is not the source of power. It is by Christ that any of our prayers have any power at all.

For example:
“With the whole Church I acknowledge that Mary, being a mere creature fashioned by the hands of God is, compared to his infinite majesty, less than an atom, or rather is simply nothing, since he alone can say, “I am he who is”.” (St. Louis de Montfort’s True Devotion to Mary, 1.14)

**Catechism #492 **The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son”.
The ending of that prayer is not something doctrinal whatsoever. It sounds more like it was added by an individual hoping to get people to pray it. (Perhaps it is drawn from the “3rd” day before the miracle in Jn 2:1) I’m not fond of those formulas either, but they are certainly not doctrinal. The good news is, if you would like to pray to Mary for her intercession, you can come up with your own prayer, or find one that is more suitable to your comfort. I would recommend to anyone to bring their concerns to her, for she will bring them to Jesus, and sometimes miracles even result (Jn 2:1-11). 🙂

Getting close to Mary in this way will draw you close to Jesus, which is the whole point of devotion to Mary.
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But why go to Mary when we can go directly to Jesus? I can’t think of a better way to grow closer to Jesus than going directly to him in prayer.
 
Salaam/peace;
Priscilla_Ann said:
… why go to Mary when we can go directly to Jesus? .
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Jesus (p) prayed directly to God ; so what about following his that example ?

Is it prohibited for Christians to pray directly to God about whom Jesus (p) said : **God is greater than ALL **?
 
Muslim_Woman said:
Salaam/peace;

Jesus (p) prayed directly to God ; so what about following his that example ?

Is it prohibited for Christians to pray directly to God about whom Jesus (p) said : **God is greater than ALL **?
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Yes, we certainly can pray directly to God, as Jesus did.
 
justasking4 said:
You bring up some excellent points. There are a large number of Marain and hymns that are troubling. Below is part of a prayer called Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary

Holy Mary, – Pray for us. (repeat at end of each phrase.)
Holy Mother of God,
Holy Virgin of virgins,
Mother of Christ,
Mother of divine grace,
Mother most pure,
Mother most chaste,
Mother inviolate,
Mother undefiled,
Mother most amiable,
Mother most admirable,
Mother of good counsel,
Mother of our Creator,
Mother of our Savior,
Virgin most prudent,
Virgin most venerable,
Virgin most renowned,
Virgin most powerful,
Virgin most merciful,
Virgin most faithful,
Mirror of justice,
Seat of wisdom,
Cause of our joy,
Spiritual vessel,
Vessel of honor,
Singular vessel of devotion,
Mystical rose,
Tower of David,
Tower of ivory,
House of gold,
Ark of the covenant,
Gate of Heaven,
Morning star,
Health of the sick,
Refuge of sinners,
Comforter of the afflicted,
Help of Christians,
Queen of Angels,
Queen of Patriarchs,
Queen of Prophets,
Queen of Apostles,
Queen of Martyrs,
Queen of Confessors,
Queen of Virgins,
Queen of all Saints,
Queen conceived without Original Sin,
Queen assumed into Heaven,
Queen of the most holy rosary,
Queen of Peace.

What conclusions would you draw from such a prayer?
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This type of prayer certainly elevates Mary above what is indicated in scripture.
 
Priscilla_Ann said:
But why go to Mary when we can go directly to Jesus? I can’t think of a better way to grow closer to Jesus than going directly to him in prayer.
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(This is rhetorical…by the way…) Why pray at all? We are told that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are incessantly interceding on our behalf…so why not just let them do it? I am sure their prayers are more efficacious than ours anyways.

Why go to Mary?
Why does a child go to their father to have him ask the mother something? Or vice-versa? Because it will have more effect.

We can take this original logical and ask: Why ask anyone to pray for us? If I can go directly to Jesus, why do I need to ask my friends pray for me too? This is the same reason we ask for the intercession of those in Heaven. Because they can pray with us and for us and add to our prayers just as someone on earth can.

…and who better than someone in Heaven to be praying for you?
 
Prayers to our Blessed Mother must be understood for what they are…and that is a request for additional help in our efforts in prayer. We do not pray to our Lady because we cannot pray to our Lord, but rather we pray with the assitance of our Lady as the Queen Mother in recognition of our Lord as the fulfillment of the Davidic Kingdom. We give to her an elevated state because as the Mother of God, Christ gives to her all the honor and worth as prescribed in the ten commandments when one honors his mother and father.

In terms of the prescription at the end of the prayer…I cannot agree with the language, but if we believe that all prayers are answer by our Father than it is not necessarily wrong to say that this request made through prayer will be answered also. It just may not be the answer the person saying the prayer was hoping.
 
TriuneUnity said:
Yeah…one can only blink in amazement at the refuge of sinners title.
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I see no problem with this title: “refuge of sinners”.

Even someone on earth can be a “refuge of sinners”. If you go to a friend for spiritual consolation, they would be a refuge…a refuge for you who are a sinner.
Given all these refutations concerning titles for Mary, the status she is given in the Catholic Church, etc should then be equally applied to people.

Going by this logic:
  • No one should ask their spouse to pray for them
  • No one should ask their friend to pray for them
  • No one should ask anyone to pray for them
  • No one should buy flowers and candy for a loved one
  • No one should buy gifts of any kind for someone
  • etc…
I say these “no one” statements because are we not venerating that person by showering them with gifts?
Are we not relying on someone else’s prayers when we should only be asking Jesus to pray for us?

Basically, by this logic, a man should never tell his wife how much he loves her (or express how much he loves her) because that would be taking away from Jesus?

When a man gets on one knee to propose to his wife…is he worshiping her?
Don’t hug and kiss your mom…that’s worship?

Why can we not appreciate Mary the same way someone appreciates their earthly mother or their spouse or child?

So we honor the Mother of God…Amen!
So we love the one who said “YES” making Jesus able to come into the world…(through the grace of God, of course)…Amen!
 
tGette said:
I see no problem with this title: “refuge of sinners”.

Even someone on earth can be a “refuge of sinners”. If you go to a friend for spiritual consolation, they would be a refuge…a refuge for you who are a sinner.
Given all these refutations concerning titles for Mary, the status she is given in the Catholic Church, etc should then be equally applied to people.

Going by this logic:
  • No one should ask their spouse to pray for them
  • No one should ask their friend to pray for them
  • No one should ask anyone to pray for them
  • No one should buy flowers and candy for a loved one
  • No one should buy gifts of any kind for someone
  • etc…
I say these “no one” statements because are we not venerating that person by showering them with gifts?
Are we not relying on someone else’s prayers when we should only be asking Jesus to pray for us?

Basically, by this logic, a man should never tell his wife how much he loves her (or express how much he loves her) because that would be taking away from Jesus?

When a man gets on one knee to propose to his wife…is he worshiping her?
Don’t hug and kiss your mom…that’s worship?

Why can we not appreciate Mary the same way someone appreciates their earthly mother or their spouse or child?

So we honor the Mother of God…Amen!
So we love the one who said “YES” making Jesus able to come into the world…(through the grace of God, of course)…Amen!
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The main difference here, tGette, is that we are commanded by God to seek prayer and to pray for others. We are no where told to ask the dead in Christ for intercession, nor to, in return, pray for them.

Those on earth are not a refuge for sinners. My brothers and sisters in fellowship can most certainly comfort me and console me in love, and vice versa, but my only refuge against sin is Christ.
 
**

What conclusions would you draw from such a prayer?**

**That they are beautiful, loving, poetic expressions of love for her whom Elizabeth, inspired by the Holy Spirit, called “Mother of YHVH” (Luke 1:43).

Devotion to the Theotokos is based on who JESUS is.**

This type of prayer certainly elevates Mary above what is indicated in scripture.

Wrong. In any case, the Church is not based on the Bible, but the Bible is based on the Church.
 
TriuneUnity said:
The main difference here, tGette, is that we are commanded by God to seek prayer and to pray for others. We are no where told to ask the dead in Christ for intercession, nor to, in return, pray for them.

Those on earth are not a refuge for sinners. My brothers and sisters in fellowship can most certainly comfort me and console me in love, and vice versa, but my only refuge against sin is Christ.
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So if you are in Heaven and witness someone asking you to pray for them…you will not pray for them? I understand this question gets into some speculation as to what it would be like in Heaven, but when we leave this world…do we suddenly lose interest in the well-being of our loved ones?
We cannot to continue to ask for their prayers? or pray for them?

Concerning the word refuge:
I guess the problem with English is there are many definitions to a given word. So refuge being “A source of help, relief, or comfort in times of trouble.” is no where contradicted in asking someone on earth for spiritual help, relief, or comfort.
 
tGette said:
So if you are in Heaven and witness someone asking you to pray for them…you will not pray for them? I understand this question gets into some speculation as to what it would be like in Heaven, but when we leave this world…do we suddenly lose interest in the well-being of our loved ones?
We cannot to continue to ask for their prayers? or pray for them?
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I do not discount that the Church Triumphant prays for the Church Militant. We know from Revelation that the saints in heaven pray for the matyrs’ vengeance during the tribulation (which is now). However, I don’t believe I will “know” what is happening to my loved ones or that I will be omniscient and be able to “hear” their prayers. There is no evidence of this in Scripture.
Concerning the word refuge:
I guess the problem with English is there are many definitions to a given word. So refuge being “A source of help, relief, or comfort in times of trouble.” is no where contradicted in asking someone on earth for spiritual help, relief, or comfort.
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The problem is, in the context of the history of Marian devotions and prayers, we know exactly what refuge means here.

You know I like you tGette, and respect you as a fellow in Christ. However, I thank the Lord that He is keeping Mary from knowing some of the things that are said in devotion to her.
 
TriuneUnity said:
The main difference here, tGette, is that we are commanded by God to seek prayer and to pray for others. We are no where told to ask the dead in Christ for intercession, nor to, in return, pray for them.
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Catholics don’t consider souls in heaven to be “dead in Christ.”

John 11:23-27
*23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” 24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?” 27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world.” *

Here is the closing of the Litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary:

*Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world,
Spare us, O Lord.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world,
Graciously hear us, O Lord.
Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world,
Have mercy on us.

Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God,
That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

Grant, we beseech Thee, O Lord God, that we Thy Servants may enjoy perpetual health of mind and body and by the glorious intercession of the Blessed Mary, ever Virgin, be delivered from present sorrow and unjoy enternal happiness. Through Christ Our Lord. Amen. *
 
GeorgiaPeach said:
Catholics don’t consider souls in heaven to be “dead in Christ.”
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I don’t know why there is misunderstanding of this phrase. It means the physically dead who are in Christ. Paul uses the phrase in his Thessalonian letters.
 
I don’t know why there is misunderstanding of this phrase
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Because Protestants have rejected the authority of The Church. If they hadn’t, we’d all be in agreement on it.

Just because we don’t believe in your interpretation of the text doesn’t mean we are confused, or that there is a ‘misunderstanding’.
 
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