Prayer Warriors please help and others! Kids going on visitation

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Hi everyone. I could not go to the court hearing for I wasn’t feeling well, but one of my sisters just called. It did not go well. My ex BIL’s attorney is a very good attorney and his defense is that my sister has had it in for her ex since the beginning and that going to court to suspend visitation is a trend of hers. The counselor did go on the stand and told the judge what the kids told her and that her recommendation is that the dad get supervised visitation. After hearing this my ex BIL’s attorney said that his client, the dad, has a video tape to show the judge where the kids are happy at his house. It was Christmas time, of course they are happy opening gifts. Anyway, the judge believe the dad and his attorney and the kids stay with the dad for the next week. His visitation will not be supervised or suspended. As far as the child support and medical bills, that will be heard at another date for the judge had other cases. I don’t understand this judge. We have figured out from some of his statements in the last case that he is more pro-dad than pro-mom no matter what. I can’t believe that the counselor testified and that was no good. I can’t believe the dad doesn’t take his kids to counseling and that is in contempt of court and he did not get in contempt. I wonder now about this judge. I still am awaiting for details from one of my sisters, but she did tell me that Norma has given up hope and doesn’t want to go to court anymore. She is totally drained emotionally from all this. The ex’s attorney painted a picture of her at crazy and “go happy in reporting to DCF” nevermind that she only did two reports of the six, the others were by counselors. I don’t understand how this could happen. My nephew will continue to grow angrier and angrier as his dad and my niece well she will grow to hate her dad and men. She may even grow up to be immoral for that is what she has at her dad’s house. They seem to want to take the kids now away from my sister and want to use the insanity plead. They told the judge she is the insane one. The judge apparently believed it for the kids stay with the dad. My niece text messaged her mother yesterday and said her heart ached and she missed her so much.

I dont’ understand why God would allow this abuse to continue. I don’t understand it at all.:crying: :crying: :crying: I sit here crying wondering why.
 
nana3 said:
I dont’ understand why God would allow this abuse to continue. I don’t understand it at all.:crying: :crying: :crying: I sit here crying wondering why.
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I’m still praying for your family, nana. God must be doing everything in His power without revoking free-choice to rescue those children. Rest assured that, no matter what, these people will someday stand before our Lord, and He will see all of the crimes they have committed against His children, each and every one, and He will ensure that they pay for their sins. Even if somehow they converted and repented, they would still serve a long time in Purgatory for the way they’ve abused these children.
 
pumpkinbeast said:
I’m still praying for your family, nana. God must be doing everything in His power without revoking free-choice to rescue those children. Rest assured that, no matter what, these people will someday stand before our Lord, and He will see all of the crimes they have committed against His children, each and every one, and He will ensure that they pay for their sins. Even if somehow they converted and repented, they would still serve a long time in Purgatory for the way they’ve abused these children.
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Thank you so much. My sisters told me that the judge just got up and said that the case would have to continue at another time and left. He did not make any decisions, but he left the kids in the dad’s care for now until next week, when he has to bring them to my sister. I don’t think the judge believed the counselor otherwise, he would have suspended the dad’s visitation. You are right and he will have to answer to God and face God for all that he is doing to the children. Unfortunately, the kids will be screwed up emotionally and mentally as a result. My husband is a product of a very angry and abusive household. I suffer now at the way he is because of what and how his parents were with him. He is trying to change, but he has to unlearn all the dysfunctional ways that he had for 18 years. I was just hoping my nephew would be able to rid himself of anger, but while he still sees the dad, he won’t. He acts just like his dad.
 
Oh Nana, I am so sorry. Please tell your sister that I continue to pray for her. I can’t imagine how helpless she must feel to have protecting her babies made illegal. I hope that she can focus on the pain that Our Lady felt as Our Lord was crucified. Our Lady is staying close by these hurting daughters and son of Hers during their painful time.
 
stadre said:
Oh Nana, I am so sorry. Please tell your sister that I continue to pray for her. I can’t imagine how helpless she must feel to have protecting her babies made illegal. I hope that she can focus on the pain that Our Lady felt as Our Lord was crucified. Our Lady is staying close by these hurting daughters and son of Hers during their painful time.
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Thank you so much. My sister is hurting and very angry at the system. I just found out that after the attorneys and the judge watched the home video that the ex made, the judge asked the counselor if she changed her mind on supervised visitation. She said no. I wonder about this judge.
 
To all of you who have been reading this thread and praying, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. Some of you may be thinking that the problem is my sister because the judge or child services don’t do anything. All I can say is that we are faced with evil from the ex and his attorneys. The ex hired three attorneys to make sure he wins. I know the details of what happened yesterday and it is horrible what the ex and his attorney did to my sister. My other two sisters who went said it was horrible what they did and how they twisted the truth and how they silenced the counselor and scared her into not revealing details of what the kids told her. I don’t know how in the world we can fight evil like this. I don’t know if God allowed all this until my sister attorney came back from vacation, because her stand in did not defend my sister at all and didn’t know the details of the case.

When the counselor testified that Luis had a tantrum in her office, the ex’s lawyer asked where was the boy since she was not seeing him in counseling. The doctor said the boy was with his mother in the lobby. The lawyer than said that she is the one with the problem and didn’t even allow the counselor to say much. She did say that when he calmed down and went into her office that his first words were that he is so so angry at his dad for hitting him. The judge heard that. The ex’s lawyer said that there is a trend with motions and ceasing visitation from my sister and reporting to DCF all because she hates the ex and is jealous. This is what the ex’s attorney told the judge. The judge must have believed it for he said to the counselor, “Don’t you see the trend?” She said no. She later told my sister out of court that she did not see a trend, but a mother trying to protect her kids from abuse and the system doing nothing about it. She was angry at the ex’s attorney also. The ex’s attorney also made it seem that the counselor was one sided for she did not talk to the dad. She mentioned that the office has tried to call him and left messages and he never returns the calls. The ex’s attorney said the mother was the one always taking the kids to counseling and this was not fair to the dad. The dad has them two weeks at a time in the summer and never calls to make an appointment. The counselor did mention this, but it didn’t matter to the judge. He was on the side of the ex.

Question: Would you now with all this information call politicians to get involved? This is what my dh wants to do. He is active in his political party and knows some people personally. Should we not try it with them to see what can be done? He did talk to one man who is not a politician, but does have influence and he wants to know the judges name and the two attorneys names. I am not sure why. I just don’t want to make things worse for my sister, but we need help to win justice for the kids. DCF here in Florida is a joke.
Here is one example only of how they failed a child.

cfnews13.com/News/Local/2007/6/26/kidnapping_prompts_changes_at_dcf.html

Here is another: freeourkids.com/articles/Tampabay%20Child%20welfare%20officer%20jailed.htm
 
My heart just breaks for you and your sister and especially for these kids. I agree with a previous post. They will have to answer to God for this. I know that doesn’t help right now…I’m going to keep praying that something changes. I don’t know what else I can say except I’m praying and praying and praying that something will happen to protect these children.
 
Your sister needs to carefully think this through before going to the politicians. My first thought when I read about the awful judge’s actions on Wednesday was to take it to the public. But I don’t know if it will hurt her case. On the other hand, if it looks like the ex is going to attempt for full custody, it is probably better to do this before the judge takes these poor babies away from Norma completely. Ultimately, she needs to make the decision on her own armed with all possiblities.

It is beyond disturbing to see how hurtful our court systems can be. Perhaps there are other appeals to a higher court?

Is her lawyer back in town yet? Does she feel comfortable with her lawyer? (Why would she go to court without her?) What does the lawyer suggest? It almost sounds like the lawyer who went with her wasn’t prepared. Perhaps a better counselor, with records and more facts would be a better witness.

I am just rambling now. I do hope and pray that Norma can get her children to safety soon.
 
stadre said:
Your sister needs to carefully think this through before going to the politicians. My first thought when I read about the awful judge’s actions on Wednesday was to take it to the public. But I don’t know if it will hurt her case. On the other hand, if it looks like the ex is going to attempt for full custody, it is probably better to do this before the judge takes these poor babies away from Norma completely. Ultimately, she needs to make the decision on her own armed with all possiblities.

It is beyond disturbing to see how hurtful our court systems can be. Perhaps there are other appeals to a higher court?

Is her lawyer back in town yet? Does she feel comfortable with her lawyer? (Why would she go to court without her?) What does the lawyer suggest? It almost sounds like the lawyer who went with her wasn’t prepared. Perhaps a better counselor, with records and more facts would be a better witness.

I am just rambling now. I do hope and pray that Norma can get her children to safety soon.
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My sister orginally was going to court for unpaid bills and it was pretty much cut and dry. Her attorney could not change her vacation plan. But than the counselor’s reported an event to the department of children and familys and told my Norma’s attorney that she felt the children would be in danger if they go to the father. That is when they did a non emergency suspension of visitation motion for the same court date. The hearing only dealt or only had time to deal with the visitation issue. The stand in attorney was more prepared for the unpaid bills. It was horrible. She does feel comfortable with her attorney and we will never go to court without her herself. We could cancel next time.

Even the counselor doesn’t understand how the judge allowed the visitation to continue. The first DCF report was done when Luis was hit so hard on his bottom that it left a welt for a week or more. The counselor was asked by the ex’s attorney if coporal punishment a crime and she answer very well. She said when it leaves a mark for a week or so, it is child abuse. The judge heard this and still no verdict from him to protect these kids. THe ex’s attorney was sarcastic and said to the counselor, “What do you think that he will take his kids and hang them to death?” She said no that drastic. Like I said, I don’t understand the judge not making a verdict.

We did hear from politicians already and all they do is call DCF and tell them to investigate. A DCF official called my dh and I yesterday and sounded like she wanted to really help. She sounded surprise that in the area where my sister lives a deputy sheriff did not come out. It was not a deputy but a DCF investigator. She said in that area they usually have a deputy come out. She wants to discuss this with my sister for she can’t give up specifics even though we know it all we can’t tell her that. She did say that they only investigate what the child says and not the parents. She did admit that some children get so afraid of the abusive parent, they lie so that they will not get more in trouble. She said the system is not perfect but the only one we have. She did tell me that the ex’s attorney claim that Norma is out to get her ex by making all DCF claims is unfounded and can be disputed for she said ask him to prove she made all those reports. He won’t be able to for no one knows who made the charge for it is confidential. My sister only made two reports anyway, the rest were counselors.

My sister’s attorney gets back in two weeks and is in Europe. I called the law office and told the stand in not to make any deals with the ex’s attorney until my sister’s attorney gets back. The stand in wants to make a deal that he make payments for all he owes, but there is a court order already where he was ordered to pay $100.00 a month and has not for a year now. Making payments will not work for him. The stand in attorney thinks that is what the judge will say anyway, but I wonder if he was present with the fact that he has not paid what he was court ordered, he won’t pay the other amount either, even if court ordered.

What gets to me also is the fact that the ex’s attorney said that Norma has a “trend” of motions to stop her ex from seeing the kids. Yes, there is a trend, a trend to stop the abuse that everyone keeps ignoring. The ex’s attorney is exceptional and good.
 
I can only express my sorrow and continued prayers. I don’t understand why God says “No” or, “Not right now” to requests like this. It seems so cut and dry to us. I pray for Norma’s strength so that she can use this time to stay close to our Lord and Lady and help her children do the same. Please keep us posted as this continues. Maybe with her regular lawyer back, something contsructive can be accomplished.

Did the children go to the ex’s yet and if not when will they go next?
 
Nana3----I am so very sorry to hear about this. I will continue to pray for you and your family.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
stadre said:
Did the children go to the ex’s yet and if not when will they go next?
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Yes, they went with him on the 4th of July and will back this Wednesday and than they are with my sister for two weeks. He gets them again in the beginning of August until the middle. Thanks for your prayers.

I think one of the lessons the Lord is teaching my sister in this, “not yet” to her prayers and ours is that she needs to love her ex and his wife, as hard as that is. After the hearing this time she again was so angry and was cussing and wanted to give up. She was so angry at her ex and his attorney and the judge. I was angry as well, but not like she was. It is understandable for she feels helpless in helping her children and once again, lies were said about in court, but this is her cross to bear for now. I trust that Jesus will soon help her and her children. When her attorney gets back, we have some hard questions for her. She said she knows this judge very well and maybe she can explain why two psychologist have come to testify in defense of these children, both against the dad and still this judge is blind to what they are recommending. Something is now right here with this judge.
 
Maria1212 said:
Nana3----I am so very sorry to hear about this. I will continue to pray for you and your family.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
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Thank you Maria so much. Norma needs all the prayer she can get the her children. We are thinking of going to Ohio to the Catholic Familyland for vacation. I think this will help the kids so much. We worry about Luis losing his temper, but pray that if it be God’s will, we will be able to go. My dh is not to crazy about the drive, even though there are three of us to help drive. He has mobility problems and is also worried about the walking once there at the Familyland. Well, Norma looks like she needs this vacation so much and it is one that her kids and her will enjoy being so active. It is vacation without leaving God behind. I just pray that my dh changes his mind and we can go.
 
Nana, I am glad the children will be home on Wednesday. It will be wonderful if you can take them on vacation, if it will not harm your family. Those babies, especially Luis, need the example of real men as much as possible.

I hope you get some good answers from the lawyer and that she comes up with a good plan. Is there a higher court she can take this to?

Of course Norma is going to have ups and downs. It is good that she is realizing her cross. Her children have their own crosses, too. And Jesus hand tested each’s individually to be sure it is neither too heavy nor too light. He wants His babies safe and with Him more than even their mother does.
 
Thanks again for all your prayers. I am so happy to hear all of you are not going to give up praying. My sister spoke today to someone high up in the Dept. of Children and Family. This woman was helpful, but admitted to my sister that they only care about physical abuse. She told Norma that she should contact the domestic violence harbor house in our area. She said she would have a better chance in defending her children if she could prove domestic disturbances at the dad’s house, which there is. All this needs to be heard in another court system and not in the family court system it is in now. She told my sister that all the judge sees is her trying to prevent the dad from visitation with his children. The judge is failing to see the domestic violence part. I asked my sister if they showed the judge the 911 dispatch transcript and she said that her attorney tried to give it to the judge, but the ex’s attorney stopped it and said it is “hear say.” I hope and pray the judge will heard the 911 call for we have the tape on the way to us. Anyway, I thought you all would have liked to know this new development.

We don’t know in what condition the kids will come on Wednesday, but we hope they will be fine. We do know that my niece does not answer her cell phone and it is off at other times. The DCF person did tell my sister that she should really get the therapist to make another report and that they come to the therapist office so that they can tell them of any mental abuse. DCF will do something about mental abuse and from what my sister told me, they define mental abuse what we call verbal abuse. If the therapist agrees there will be another in depth investigation and it will involve the school teachers as well. Norma told this DCF worker how her daughter’s grades went down and her attention at school is poor. This goes with what the counselor was trying to tell the judge that Marissa suffers from depression. Luis had problems as well for he was vandelizing the kindergarten bathroom. All this the counselor is aware of. These kids act out and need help and it shows that something is wrong.

Norma told me today the stragety the ex’s attorney used when the counselor told them all that Luis acted out in excessive anger outburst at her office before her session with him. The therapist was with Marissa at the time. The ex’s attorney asked the counselor where the child (Luis) was and she said in the lobby with his mother, Norma. Then the ex’s attorney said to her, “Time enough for the mother to manipulate the child.” Can you believe this? If anyone is manipulating these kids, it is the dad.

Anyway, we pray that this new information will help Norma. I am trying to get her to act soon and not waste time thinking of this too much.
 
BarbaraTherese said:
Keeping all and the court proceedings in prayer…
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Thank you so much. The kids are home with my sister safe and sound. They are very quiet, but other than that no visible signs of abuse. The ex had to be a jerk today. My sister emailed him last night asking where to pick up the kids, at his house or the daycare he owns. She had called him and left a message as well. Today came and no call. She called her daughter’s cell and finally got a hold of her. She did not know where she would be at at 3 pm, pick up time, but was at the daycare in the morning. She told her to ask her dad and call her back, but she never did. I had to look up the number to the daycare, for the ex was not taking her calls to his cell. She got a hold of him at the daycare and asked if the kids would be there at 3 pm and he said yes. This is what he does a lot. It gets to my sister for it does not have to be this way.
 
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