Prayer - Why Bother?

[Lost_Sheep]

Whenever one prays for something or someone, there is always that implicit caveat of “Thy [God’s] will be done.”

So suppose I’m praying for the speedy recovery of a sick friend. I want him to recover from his illness as soon as possible. But there is that sticking point: If it is God’s will. So there are two possible outcomes here. Either my friend gets better of he doesn’t. I want him to get better but it may be God’s will that he dies.

So what, then, is even the point of praying? God is going to do what He wants to do. Are we really so presumptuous to think that we can actually change God’s mind?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Whenever one prays for something or someone, there is always that implicit caveat of “Thy [God’s] will be done.”

So suppose I’m praying for the speedy recovery of a sick friend. I want him to recover from his illness as soon as possible. But there is that sticking point: If it is God’s will. So there are two possible outcomes here. Either my friend gets better of he doesn’t. I want him to get better but it may be God’s will that he dies.

So what, then, is even the point of praying? God is going to do what He wants to do. Are we really so presumptuous to think that we can actually change God’s mind?

The point isn’t about ‘changing God’s mind’, but to enlarge our own capacities for humility, obedience, and trust in God.

God knows ‘before we ask’ but He wants us to ask for OUR benefit, not His. Not so that we ‘get something’ but so that we approach Him in total trust and humility.

Also remember that God exists 'outside time". He isn’t standing up there in heaven saying, “It’s 3:13 p.m. EST on September 3, 2013. What do I want to plan for tomorrow, next week, next month, next century?” IOW, He isn’t experiencing the life of you (or your friend) in a ‘line’ from ‘yesterday-today-tomorrow’ but rather a continuous NOW. He isn’t making ‘day to day’ decisions for us on a giant planner.

Again, the whole point behind prayer with 'Thy Will be done" is not to get God to ‘change’ so that ‘our’ will gets done, but to truly (and it will take time, believe me) get to the point of knowing and speaking with God so that our whole LIFE is a prayer and it always is ‘let thy will be done’. It’s hard but so worth it.

 

[Bataar]

Whenever one prays for something or someone, there is always that implicit caveat of “Thy [God’s] will be done.”

So suppose I’m praying for the speedy recovery of a sick friend. I want him to recover from his illness as soon as possible. But there is that sticking point: If it is God’s will. So there are two possible outcomes here. Either my friend gets better of he doesn’t. I want him to get better but it may be God’s will that he dies.

So what, then, is even the point of praying? God is going to do what He wants to do. Are we really so presumptuous to think that we can actually change God’s mind?

I know the feeling and have the same line of thinking. I’ll pray for something for a while, but if what I’m praying for doesn’t come to pass, I assume it’s not God’s will and stop praying for it. My mom says I lack faith but I don’t see it as such.

 

[savedbygrace71]

Perhaps instead of praying, God, help my sick friend get well now, I have tried praying in a different direction. I pray, God, help me to find my role to help my sick friend. Help my friend’s doctors to find the solutions that will best help him get well and relieve suffering. Grant my friend the peace of your presence and the comfort of knowing your love. I always pray, to please be with me God in this time of worry and confusion, and help me to understand and accept your will. Then it isn’t asking to change god’s will, but to change us.
I struggled with post partum anxieties and when I begged God to take away my anxieties, or make me not afraid of those particular things anymore, it didnt work. But when I prayed, God be with me tonight, be with me as I face my fears, help me to take steps to address my fears and anxieties, teach me what to do to be stronger…then I heard the answers I sought.

 

[Avila123]

Perhaps instead of praying, God, help my sick friend get well now, I have tried praying in a different direction. I pray, God, help me to find my role to help my sick friend. Help my friend’s doctors to find the solutions that will best help him get well and relieve suffering. Grant my friend the peace of your presence and the comfort of knowing your love. I always pray, to please be with me God in this time of worry and confusion, and help me to understand and accept your will. Then it isn’t asking to change god’s will, but to change us.
I struggled with post partum anxieties and when I begged God to take away my anxieties, or make me not afraid of those particular things anymore, it didnt work. But when I prayed, God be with me tonight, be with me as I face my fears, help me to take steps to address my fears and anxieties, teach me what to do to be stronger…then I heard the answers I sought.

Agree with Savedbygrace who put it better than I would. It is what I have been doing since my mother had a massive stroke 2 years ago and what I will be doing for however long God decides she needs to complete her journey on earth.
Your question reminded me of Abraham. God said He was going to destroy the wicked city and Abraham asked if He would do it if there were 100 righteous people and whether it would be fair to condemn the righteous and God agreed to spare the city if there were 100 righteous people living there. In the end of it Abraham knocked the number down to one and God relented. (I think I got the numbers wrong). It proves that God listens and consider all our prayers. Maybe things seem the same because He doesn’t answer our prayers in the way we want or when we want it? I just don’t know, maybe we all have to travel in faith?

 

[ClearWater]

No, I don’t think it is presumption. Look at Christ, himself, in his earthly existence asked for what he wanted and needed. Even with his suffering, he asked 3 times to be spared of it but accepted God’s will. Was Christ wasting his time to even ask the Father? I don’t think so. Christ never wasted his time or prayers.

The key to prayer is faith. People with the strongest faith seem to have much more success at it than people who are disbelievers and skeptics.

Christ serves as the model for us. When the disciples were sleeping, he told them they should be praying that they not be submitted to the test.

However, the other times, God granted what Christ requested though Christ would often say that it be granted to people in accordance to their level of faith. So, people of stronger faith seem to have much greater success with prayers than those with weak faith.

As to praying for a sick friend, even if your friend never is healed, by praying, you are completing one of the 7 corporal acts of mercy. So, even if that particular prayer never did actually help the health of a friend, it will help you to get closer to heaven.

What concerns me about your post is that you, yourself, classify yourself as a Catholic but “cynical”. I looked up the definition of “cynical”, and it said the following: wordreference.com/definition/cynical

Are you sure you want to be “cynical”? It’s not a virtue by any means and could possibly prevent your getting into heaven. Why not pray consider praying for faith?

 

[KC2844]

Whenever one prays for something or someone, there is always that implicit caveat of “Thy [God’s] will be done.”

So suppose I’m praying for the speedy recovery of a sick friend. I want him to recover from his illness as soon as possible. But there is that sticking point: If it is God’s will. So there are two possible outcomes here. Either my friend gets better of he doesn’t. I want him to get better but it may be God’s will that he dies.

So what, then, is even the point of praying? God is going to do what He wants to do. Are we really so presumptuous to think that we can actually change God’s mind?

I’ve also wondered/struggled with that question. Thank you so much for asking it!

And, I’m so thankful for all the thoughtful responses so far!

 

[fred_conty]

Whenever one prays for something or someone, there is always that implicit caveat of “Thy [God’s] will be done.”

So suppose I’m praying for the speedy recovery of a sick friend. I want him to recover from his illness as soon as possible. But there is that sticking point: If it is God’s will. So there are two possible outcomes here. Either my friend gets better of he doesn’t. I want him to get better but it may be God’s will that he dies.

So what, then, is even the point of praying? God is going to do what He wants to do. Are we really so presumptuous to think that we can actually change God’s mind?

There was a question similar to this on CAF some months back. The person was disillusioned when he prayed for a man who was being held captive in the near east. He prayed that God may bring him home safely. Well, it so happened that he was killed, and the man who prayed from him felt diserted by God.

Someone answered and said that instead of praying for the man’s life, he would have been better to pray for the man himself, that whatever happened to the man, that he would be able to cope with it and be strong under adversity, and prepared for whatever happened to him.

Have you ever got the feeling of hopeless of the prayers after the gospel in Mass. For instance, “let us pray for all children who are starving in Cuba.” And you wonder if this prayer is ever heard since things do not improve.

The answer to that is, whether it was answered or not according to our intentions, it still is a good prayer and will be answered in some form or fashion in another way, for ourselves or for others. For God is not only Love but also fair. And if he tells us to pray for good things with trust, and that prayer will be answered, then being fair and truthfull, he will answer that prayer in one way or another.

But the real question is…is a prayer real, without believing that it will be answered?

“O bless the Lord for every gift that comes to grace our way, and praise the God of faithfulness, who comes to light our day.” (hymn)

 

[mdgspencer]

In this case I think of the story of Moses. God told Moses that he was going to wipe the people out for their sins. Then Moses prayed for the people and God spared them. Why did God tell Moses in the first place He was going to do this, instead of simply acting and destroying the people? God could only have told Moses first, without acting instead, because He wanted Moses to pray and save the people with his prayers. That is, God makes good things happening dependent on our prayers. He does this, for one thing because God wants us to love and pray for each other which is for our own great inner good, bringing us closer to Him. It shows too no man is an island, living for himself.

 

[KC2844]

Perhaps instead of praying, God, help my sick friend get well now, I have tried praying in a different direction. I pray, God, help me to find my role to help my sick friend. Help my friend’s doctors to find the solutions that will best help him get well and relieve suffering. Grant my friend the peace of your presence and the comfort of knowing your love. I always pray, to please be with me God in this time of worry and confusion, and help me to understand and accept your will. Then it isn’t asking to change god’s will, but to change us.
I struggled with post partum anxieties and when I begged God to take away my anxieties, or make me not afraid of those particular things anymore, it didnt work. But when I prayed, God be with me tonight, be with me as I face my fears, help me to take steps to address my fears and anxieties, teach me what to do to be stronger…then I heard the answers I sought.

Love this response! (Must remember.)

 

[Mark121359]

I’m reminded of Matthew 15:21-28; The Canaanite Woman’s Faith:

And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and cried, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon.” But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying after us.” He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” And he answered, “It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

I love how this woman refused to take no for an answer. She continued to persist with such
determination. And she makes her request with complete humility, “Have mercy on me.” she says. And this is how we should pray…with faith, trust, perseverance and humility.

---

Peace, Mark***

 

[BobCatholic]

There is no point in praying if what you are praying for is not God’s will. We cannot change God’s mind, and praying against his will is a waste of time.

Pray once. If God says no, game over. Nothing can be done.

Novenas don’t work either, same limitation.

Praying for something that is not in the will of God offends him. It is the sin of putting God to the test. You’re testing God that he will change his mind.

If God says no, that’s it. Don’t pray for the same thing again. The answer will still be no.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

There is no point in praying if what you are praying for is not God’s will. We cannot change God’s mind, and praying against his will is a waste of time.

Pray once. If God says no, game over. Nothing can be done.

Novenas don’t work either, same limitation.

Praying for something that is not in the will of God offends him. It is the sin of putting God to the test. You’re testing God that he will change his mind.

If God says no, that’s it. Don’t pray for the same thing again. The answer will still be no.

Sounds like you and I think very much alike.

 

[HoldingGodsHand]

There is no point in praying if what you are praying for is not God’s will. We cannot change God’s mind, and praying against his will is a waste of time.

Pray once. If God says no, game over. Nothing can be done.

Novenas don’t work either, same limitation.

Praying for something that is not in the will of God offends him. It is the sin of putting God to the test. You’re testing God that he will change his mind.

If God says no, that’s it. Don’t pray for the same thing again. The answer will still be no.

Maybe I have been doing this all wrong, my approach to prayers. Praying over and over for the same things everyday, feeling like I’m talking to myself sometimes. But why pray for Gods’ will if it’s what He’s going to do anyway? I know there have been times I’ve prayed and simply felt better after, but I’ve seemed to have lost that. Now it’s mostly just words, I feel no connection anymore when I pray. Isn’t that another reason to pray, to grow closer and connect with God? It’s hard to keep praying day in and day out when there’s no connection. How do you get that back?

 

[Prodigal_Son]

“Thy will be done.”

But God’s will is sometimes affected by my will, since God loves me. So I ask “Help me sleep, but thy will be done.” And God helps me sleep, even if He thought not-sleeping would be just as good for me, because He cares about MY desires.

 

[Methos]

There is no point in praying if what you are praying for is not God’s will. We cannot change God’s mind, and praying against his will is a waste of time.

Pray once. If God says no, game over. Nothing can be done.

Novenas don’t work either, same limitation.

Praying for something that is not in the will of God offends him. It is the sin of putting God to the test. You’re testing God that he will change his mind.

If God says no, that’s it. Don’t pray for the same thing again. The answer will still be no.

Also, numbers don’t matter. How many people are praying for an end to the drought in the U.S that’s happening in the Midwest? So, God is what, waiting for someone in Adair, Iowa, to add his prayer before ending it?

 

[Deus_tecum]

There is no point in praying if what you are praying for is not God’s will. We cannot change God’s mind, and praying against his will is a waste of time.

Pray once. If God says no, game over. Nothing can be done.

Novenas don’t work either, same limitation.

Praying for something that is not in the will of God offends him. It is the sin of putting God to the test. You’re testing God that he will change his mind.

If God says no, that’s it. Don’t pray for the same thing again. The answer will still be no.

By what criteria do you determine “God says no.” If you interpret the prayer not being instantly answered as a “no” then you are putting God on your own timetable. When I was a child and asked my dad for a piece of candy I was sometimes told “No, you will spoil your supper.”, but he did not mean I could never have a piece of candy. I could ask again after supper, and he would allow me to have the candy.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Also, numbers don’t matter. How many people are praying for an end to the drought in the U.S that’s happening in the Midwest? So, God is what, waiting for someone in Adair, Iowa, to add his prayer before ending it?

I lived in the Midwest most of my life, and late August/early September has always been hot and dry, with lawns brown unless watered. Is there something unusual about this seasonal cycle that makes it much more drier than usual?

 

[Mark121359]

Some of the posts I’m reading about not persisting in prayer are not what the Catholic Faith teaches us about prayer. And I have no idea where people are learning this. In Luke 18 1-8, The Parable of the Widow and the Unjust Judge, Jesus again alludes to this;

And he told them a parable, to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor regarded man; and there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Vindicate me against my adversary.’ For a while he refused; but afterward he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor regard man, yet because this widow bothers me, I will vindicate her, or she will wear me out by her continual coming.’” And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge says. And will not God vindicate his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? I tell you, he will vindicate them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

Pray continually and never give up! God is not bound by our time. If this defenseless widow who was powerless can wear down the corrupt judge, how much more can we obtain from Almighty God who is just and merciful if we persist in all humility in fervent prayer?

Peace, Mark

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Some of the posts I’m reading about not persisting in prayer are not what the Catholic Faith teaches us about prayer. And I have no idea where people are learning this. In Luke 18 1-8, The Parable of the Widow and the Unjust Judge, Jesus again alludes to this;

And he told them a parable, to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor regarded man; and there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Vindicate me against my adversary.’ For a while he refused; but afterward he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor regard man, yet because this widow bothers me, I will vindicate her, or she will wear me out by her continual coming.’” And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge says. And will not God vindicate his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? I tell you, he will vindicate them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

Using this logic, one could say that God is unjust because he doesn’t answer our prayers “our way.”