If basically my only way of “communicating” my GIVEN free will does offend our dear lord, then his will is to be offended?
I may grow in knowledge, for all the good it does me, but I’m far from wise. My knowledge tells me that some people, if not most, are just better than me. The saints are Hall of Famers. Me? I whiff the ball on the t-ball stand.
OK, you lost me here. I don’t feel happiness or love. I don’t get warm fuzzy feelings if someone say they love me or gives me a hug (the latter will likely get you a hard shove from me). Any memories I have of love, if I ever even experienced it, are just that-- memories and faded ones at that. So, you have to explain it to me from an intellectual perspective without emotional references.
But it takes more than belief. Someone may offer me $1 million for building a yacht, but I can’t if I don’t have the tools or material or the means to use them. I can believe all I want that God will hold up his part, but unfortunately, I can’t hold up mine.
And some players get a Super Bowl or World Series ring for just being on the team.
Unfortunately, sin is one of the few things that gives me respite from my depression (please don’t tell me to get help. Been there, done that. No funds. Read my other postings if you have the time) and the fear of failure that gets justified. Probably the only way I’d take up that offer if I were to die right there and then after I repent and believe. Literally, die right there. No, let me carry this through out my life because I know I will fail. I always do and the final time will be before I die.
See above
Imagine it is what I do when I think of the life I should had had and have. I fantasize a world where things in my life had gone right the first time, I’m not a failure, but a success in every sense of the word, I can feel love and happiness, have loyal real friends, maybe a wife and children. Also, I’m humble, devout and faithful, maybe leading many to the Church. The wisdom I lack to have such a life would be mine. I’d know how to achieve it in the way I haven’t a damn clue now. The failures and mistakes I made would be avoided, but any wisdom that could have been gained from them would be done by other means. I wouldn’t be afraid all the time. But it’s just that, a fantasy. Some people fantasize about being astronauts or living under the sea. That doesn’t mean it’s going to happen. Whereas they might get pleasure from such fantasies, I do not. Usually, I cry myself to sleep.
More likely I’ll get coconut cake in hell.
Of course. If the prayer is in conformity with God’s will, then God will say yes. Otherwise, continuing to pray for it after he says no, is offensive.If basically my only way of “communicating” my GIVEN free will does offend our dear lord, then his will is to be offended?
I find there is always positive vibes and… lets call it “energy” coming my way after sincere praying. Wether its against his will or not.
Let’s play Devil’s advocate here. Let’s assume God knows best and God has your best in mind, nothing else drives him in his dealings with you. I’ve always wanted, from my early 20s, to be rich, not Donald Trump rich, but a couple of million rich so I could do pretty much what I wanted, be with whom I wanted to be, go where I want to go. God knows that if he gives me the money, it might fill me with a sense of arrogance, it might make me start to look for ways, for sinful ways to bring myself comfort for the debacle and mortification of the past. I might give in to my desire to isolate myself and become a total recluse, being a recluse would worsen my already precarious mental health. For me, money at 20, 25, 35 would be probably catastrophic for my life, perhaps God will bless me financially when I’m 50, perhaps in a week. What I’m getting at is that a “no” from God is not necessarily a permanent no. Now, you’re qualified, proficient, you’re hard-working, if you are not working in your field of expertise I would venture to say is because God is not actively helping you get a job, for the time being, and I understand it’s been 12 years, his will is probably that you don’t get such a job. Why would that be? Apart from teaching you to put God above your professional fulfillment and your finance, I don’t see why. I struggle mightily in this life, not a good learner, not good socially even though I’d kill to be etc., but 80 years of life is tiny in comparison to eternity. Don’t recall who said that, but if you have clothes, food and a roof over your head, be thankful. I feel like a hypocrite telling you these things because even though they make sense, the stress, insecurity, lack and frustration of my life and past make me crave the passing things of this life, especially money. I wish things were different, I wish God could hear beautiful songs of praise and gratitude instead of hearing about my torments and the constant rehash of everything and everyone that have hurt me in my life. When it gets bad enough I curse the day I was conceived and agonize over the fact that I had to be brought to life for a life such as mine.
We are HOPING we can–and hope is a virtue. God can do what He wants–and sometimes if He chooses not to heal a sick person for instance, it’s because He has a better plan. But with our human minds, we intercede to God for many things–and yes, sometimes God changes His mind and gives us what we ask! Other times He doesn’t–but in asking, we show our respect and humility by agreeing that we will ultimately accept his will as superior to our own.
Make it “wait for a more opportune time”? I may say no to my child for something that isn’t appropriate for his age, if he asks me again in 5 years, I’ll say yes, but all along I knew that the answer would be yes at a later time. I don’t think God truly changes his mind, either. His mind is already made up what and when he will give Bob whatever he’s been asking, so that’s not a change of mind per se.
Maybe so–maybe not. Mary always says we must pray a lot when she appears or else, if we don’t, usually some disaster will happen. In that case, it would seem that she is telling us that our prayers may have an impact on God’s ultimate decision–at least sometimes.
That’s a new one on me. Where did you hear/see/read/learn that?
Mary told the 3 kids at Fatima those exact words–google it on line and read what she said. That is a miracle that to the best of my knowledge the church has accepted as true and authentic. I’m not sure that I actually believe in the whole Medjugordge thing–and I know that the church has not authenticated it, though many folks do believe it—but if it does happen to be true, Mary has also said the same thing to the “seers” there too. Also, it has been relayed through several saints who supposedly had visions of Mary as well. I read that normally these Marion appearances happen just prior to some catastrophe approaching in a specific area–and always Mary tells whomever is involved to “pray and pray a lot”. Do some on line searches on “recent apparitions of Mary”–and look at the Catholic descriptions (not Wiikipedia etc) as they are usually more in depth and list what Mary supposedly had to say–it’s an interesting subject to investigate a bit at the least!
If we fast, make penance, pray etc., we’re doing God’s will, he won’t let say, a nuclear holocaust, happen. If we don’t do these things, he lets it happen. No mind changing there, he simply acts according to how we act, i.e. we get the consequences of our acts/sins/obedience.
This is a reference to Fatima.
No offense–but that’s just an argument in semantics to me. I remember God telling in the OT that if even 10 good men could be found in Sodom and Gomorrha, that he wouldn’t nuke the two towns til they glowed. Mary repetetively tells people to pray. If God has already made up his mind and there’s no point in trying to sway him, then other than a prayer asking for forgiveness or one of praise, praying is totally WORTHLESS! And frankly–if your correct, the prayer asking for forgiveness is pretty lame too–God has already forgiven you or not, so why bother asking? We are taught to ask the Father for things–even Jesus told us to do so when He taught the Lord’s prayer. He suggested that we ask the Father to “Give us this day our daily bread”. We are taught to ask saints and Mary to intercede for us–if God doesn’t listen cause his mind is already 100% made up–and if you believe that–then frankly, I’d stop praying entirely. It would free up time in your life for other, more fulfilling activities as God will have already decided whether you are going to heaven or hell anyway so why waste time asking for something that God has already decided in advance?
So Mary is, in effect, saying “Pray or else.”
Yes, in a nice way, that’s what she said. She said prayer will put off a future war. And she tried to help us do that by warning us at Fatima on Oct. 13, 1917. Here is the miracle at Fatima that was done in order that we might take the warning to heart.
Your kid wants a telescope. You think it’s an awesome idea, but you also think it’s an awesome idea that he should learn about the value of money, and the value of work, so you say no to that telescope for the time being, however once the kid has mowed enough lawns (or whatever) to have raised enough money, you say yes to the telescope. Your initial “no” is temporary and the potential “yes” is conditonal, does that make sense? Except that communication with God is less fluid and straightforward than it is between you and your kid, so we have to sort of guess what God’s will is by trial and error. It took ages for God to get Sarah a kid, she was well past child-bearing age, yet throughout all these years that she didn’t conceive, people would have probably concluded that life-long sterility was God’s will for Sarah. And even is x is God’s will for me, if I live like the Devil, sin left and right, and do not even so much as pray for x, x ain’t gonna happen. If you take away from what I’ve been saying is that prayer is useless, then you misunderstood and/or I didn’t express myself adequately. Plus we can never figure out God, put him in a box, there is always a great deal of mystery in all of this. If you pray a novena for a thorny situation to resolve itself, if the situation resolves itself indeed, who is to say with 100% assurance that God stepped in somehow, it can always have come from a coincidence. Same with the people of Ninive: God will wipe them out if they remain the same, but will spare them if they don’t remain the same, that’s a conditional “offer”, just like Fatima/Akita is/are, God’s will remains unchanged throughout the whole thing: punish sin if sin continues, or show mercy if sin stops. Perhaps I’m totally off on this, although it would really be a first!No offense–but that’s just an argument in semantics to me. I remember God telling in the OT that if even 10 good men could be found in Sodom and Gomorrha, that he wouldn’t nuke the two towns til they glowed. Mary repetetively tells people to pray. If God has already made up his mind and there’s no point in trying to sway him, then other than a prayer asking for forgiveness or one of praise, praying is totally WORTHLESS! And frankly–if your correct, the prayer asking for forgiveness is pretty lame too–God has already forgiven you or not, so why bother asking? We are taught to ask the Father for things–even Jesus told us to do so when He taught the Lord’s prayer. He suggested that we ask the Father to “Give us this day our daily bread”. We are taught to ask saints and Mary to intercede for us–if God doesn’t listen cause his mind is already 100% made up–and if you believe that–then frankly, I’d stop praying entirely. It would free up time in your life for other, more fulfilling activities as God will have already decided whether you are going to heaven or hell anyway so why waste time asking for something that God has already decided in advance?
Sounds like a threat to me. I didn’t that was her style.
Obviously it did no good. I mean, I’m sure *someone *prayed that there be no more war; nonetheless there have been dozens of wars in the world since 1917.
Oh, I understand what you are saying–I just completely and totally disagree is all. I believe that in some cases, God’s will is absolute and firm and He isn’t going to change His mind–and–not knowing when that is the case and when not-- I always try to pray that God’s will be done" because in these cases, His will is more profound than mine and I must accept it. Such is the case when my kid wants a telescope–I say no–and no matter how much money he makes my answer remains no. Period–no telescope–no way. I also believe that there are MANY other times when God will decide yes or no and in those cases, my intercession or the intercession of others, the saints or Mary along with my own intercession, can ultimately impact God’s final decision. Which is why I pray in supplication in addition to adoration and for forgiveness. If I didn’t believe that, I’d simply pray in adoration and for forgiveness–but skip the supplication entirely as it would be pointless. I’d just pray “Thy will be done. No requests required, needed or allowed. The end.” THAT is what I believe.Your kid wants a telescope. You think it’s an awesome idea, but you also think it’s an awesome idea that he should learn about the value of money, and the value of work, so you say no to that telescope for the time being, however once the kid has mowed enough lawns (or whatever) to have raised enough money, you say yes to the telescope. Your initial “no” is temporary and the potential “yes” is conditonal, does that make sense? Except that communication with God is less fluid and straightforward than it is between you and your kid, so we have to sort of guess what God’s will is by trial and error. It took ages for God to get Sarah a kid, she was well past child-bearing age, yet throughout all these years that she didn’t conceive, people would have probably concluded that life-long sterility was God’s will for Sarah. And even is x is God’s will for me, if I live like the Devil, sin left and right, and do not even so much as pray for x, x ain’t gonna happen. If you take away from what I’ve been saying is that prayer is useless, then you misunderstood and/or I didn’t express myself adequately. Plus we can never figure out God, put him in a box, there is always a great deal of mystery in all of this. If you pray a novena for a thorny situation to resolve itself, if the situation resolves itself indeed, who is to say with 100% assurance that God stepped in somehow, it can always have come from a coincidence. Same with the people of Ninive: God will wipe them out if they remain the same, but will spare them if they don’t remain the same, that’s a conditional “offer”, just like Fatima/Akita is/are, God’s will remains unchanged throughout the whole thing: punish sin if sin continues, or show mercy if sin stops. Perhaps I’m totally off on this, although it would really be a first!