Prayers and advice for relationship, please! (Sexual morality/mixed-religion relationship trouble)

[GaudeteSemper]

Thank you for the warning! I will not be marrying until some things have changed… Praying for a full conversion, but we shall see! You are quite right, but I feel that no marriage is ever easy… And we manage to remain quite open and respectful, generally quite calm and kind, too, throughout all our disagreements, which seems to bode well for the future.

Maybe I am just being romantic, but after over seven months now of constant internal debate/discussion and prayer, I feel pretty strongly called to marriage, but to HIM, specifically. Before we began to date, I went through a bad semi-relationship and was generally pretty disgruntled and disillusioned… I had not only largely lost hope in finding someone suitable, but I was also seriously considering abandoning actively trying to find a man/relationship/future husband in favour of concentrating on my medical career. I figured I would fill me desire (need) for motherhood with medical missions helping children and maybe fostering or adopting children (if no suitable two-parent households were available, because I’d feel horrible not providing them with a father). I was emotional and going through a bad time and was definitely pretty unsatisfied. A certain best friend tried to assure me of my self-worth, but I was pretty low.

Then, early one winter morning, I kissed my said friend. Long story. I decided it was a mistake and that we shouldn’t date, that I was still resigned to being single, etc. That evening, as I went to Mass, I saw quite clearly… hard to explain… they aren’t visions, really… but I sometimes see/imagine things… almost like part of my (future) life passing before my eyes… like when I randomly “saw” a completely accurate vision of my goddaughter right before her parents told me they were pregnant… And that night, as I was standing up to go to Communion, I saw a baby… I had been practically avoiding children for months because I was so pained by my belief that I would never have one, but this time, I looked at the child and then “saw” my own family… with him as the husband/father. It was so beautiful. I returned to my pew openly weeping. I felt this wave of peace, contentment, and self-assurance that I had not experienced for months or years. I prayed very hard about it, but the answer, at least as far as I could gather, was always that this was it. I was definitely going against God’s will when I was trying to tell myself that I was destined for single life… I somehow just KNOW that I am meant to be a wife and mother… but I feel called to start a family with my boyfriend, specifically. I discerned for over a week before I agreed to date him, and I am still discerning, but I always get the same answer, even when I hit a low and am so frustrated about the sex debates that I am practically begging God to be “told” to leave. About a month before I left the country, because of mounting tensions and the intimidating departure, we agreed to separate, possibly temporarily. When presented with the opportunity to pursue any super-chaste Catholic man, I wanted none of them, just as I’d wanted none before the break up. I want a chaste Catholic husband, but I want my boyfriend to be that man, and I know he can be!

The improvements are numerous… He is now pro-life (previously ambivalent), prays more often, has a much healthier view of women and sex (as I said, baby steps), is working toward a better relationship with his parents, tries to swear less and generally strives to be holier, yearns for marriage and a family (as compared to empty, casual sex), no longer searches for porn… Those are just a few things. Heck, he not even now prays to Saint Benedict and constantly wears his medal, but he also sincerely believes that he miraculously saved his life during a bad situation in a fire! When I first met him, he was more immature, trying to brag about his few sexual encounters and looking for some sort of relationship. Having spent much time pursuing the wrong women, he apparently realised the value in having a chaste woman and, after months of contemplating his lifestyle and already starting to make changes, he asked me out, and here we are!

Again, I may be love-struck, but considering his improvements and the fact that I was initially uninterested - his virtues and loving devotion eventually logically won me over, and love/emotions followed - I am optimistic about our success. Yes, fantastic conversions do not always occur, but it is much easier to picture my sweet boyfriend - who sends me photos of cute animals, coos over baby shoes, fantasises about our future children, constantly assures me of my beauty and worth, encourages me in everything, declares to hundreds of taunting, judgmental firefighters and other buddies that he is waiting for marriage because
I am more than worth it and he is going to marry me someday, who prays to God every night and wears saints medals, who rushes into burning buildings to save strangers, who does all he possibly can to help me in less dramatic but no less important ways - converting and becoming a good Catholic husband than young Saint Augustine a bishop!!!

Thank you for your caution! I do take it seriously and continue to pray (particularly to Saint Rita, who can sympathise!) and discern. But I have hope!

 

[GaudeteSemper]

Our plan is to wait four years (at least) until I graduate and his finances and career are stable. In the meantime, I am so occupied with school that, even were we to break up, I would not at all go looking for another relationship. Right now, we are together, but we are both focused on getting our lives in order. We are both on the same page and are equally busy, and I’m far away, which is horrible in some ways but good in others. We can both concentrate on what we need to do but still have the support and love of a boyfriend/girlfriend. We both look forward to my graduation date, but yes, it is to me a bit of a deadline. If certain issues are unresolved by that point…

I would wait years for him, anyway. He is worth it. “We,” us together, is also worth it. I was never the girl who “needed” a boyfriend. If this relationship ends, I am in no hurry to start another one, if I ever do. Therefore, I see no reason to not give him a chance.

 

[Chevaleresse]

Thank you for your caution! I do take it seriously and continue to pray (particularly to Saint Rita, who can sympathise!) and discern. But I have hope!

Okay. You indicated that you were sheltered growing up, so I thought I’d give you a heads up about these kinds of things. Lots of people end up getting married into these types of situations and wonder why no one warned them, so I thought I’d be part of the solution.

And, good luck…

 

[GaudeteSemper]

Thank you! I appreciate it greatly!!!

 

[bmaj]

Hello, all, and thank you so very much for your time! In my struggle to deal with this issue, I have spent time searching for wisdom on Catholic Answers, but I am now so desperate that I decided to write a post of my own…

Tomorrow, my boyfriend and I will celebrate our six-month anniversary, but we are mired in confusion and distress over the current state of our relationship. We have known each other for over a year and became best friends in about December, which blossomed into a dating relationship in February. ous practices or observances. I had always intended to only date Catholics, but since he was my very beloved friend, I agreed to a relationship…

Without being extraordinarily descriptive, let me say that my boyfriend is wonderful in many, many ways. … He holds open car doors, pays for every meal, and even gallantly carries me up the staircase when my back problem is exacerbated (not that I request this – he just always goes above and beyond for me!). …
Now, who I am to complain that my boyfriend is a brave, dedicated, self-sacrificing hero? … Unfortunately, however, heroism aside, firehouses often have frat house atmospheres with a heavy emphasis on pornography, masturbation, fornication, insert unchaste act here. There is a pervasive fire service lie that “manhood” cannot be obtained without fornication, and as my chastity is very public (firehouses have no secrets!), so is my boyfriend’s perceived wimpiness. My boyfriend, raised without a strong religious or moral foundation, grew up in firehouses, indoctrinated from young childhood with their warped views of sexuality and women. He does respect me as a person and has a “normal” view of women, as compared to the sexist, misogynistic attitudes that are quite prevalent, but still falls prey to the myth that casual sex equals manhood. Despite some fallings (which do haunt me occasionally but he now regrets, which is a great comfort), he did refuse intercourse, instinctively feeling that he ought to wait for the right time and the right person. For my sake, when he finally realised how much his porn usage devastated me, he swore off it forever. Quite an improvement from the statement he made at the beginning of the relationship to never give up two things: firefighting and porn!!! Even before that point, he reported that he was using it less and less and was losing interest, largely because it was rather tainted by my disapproval and sadness. He has tried to decrease how much he masturbates and says that it also is no longer fulfilling. (Prayers at work?) The comments about his sexual frustration continue, however, and he also feels a need to make sexual jokes with and hide his lack of current pornographic indulgence from the other firefighters so that his “manhood” level does not fall further. …

…and he is frustrated because I seem uncompromising, he is still absolutely committed to staying with me and to following my moral standards (though not regarding masturbation before marital sex supposedly replaces it.) He is willing to learn and change and sacrifice greatly for love of me. I know that my overreacting is unreasonable and pains him greatly. …

I love this man. He is indescribably precious to me. He thinks that, because of my distress over these things, I hate him. Nothing could be farther from the truth. He despises himself, but when I fight and cry, it is over his lost innocence and for the possible (likely?) loss of our future together. I am so tired of feeling (though I should not) guilt over his sexual frustration and of endless debates. I feel like problems will only get worse and I have basically given up. I am not interested in another man, but I do yearn sometimes for a good Catholic boyfriend who can work with me in a team effort to stay virginal and for a good Catholic husband to read our children Bible stories on his knee. Saint Augustine converted – my boyfriend certainly can – but I am no Saint Monica or Saint Rita. I am not sure if I have the strength to continue with this. Am I about to reject a great relationship with a beautiful man, or am I desperately clinging to something destined to fail? And I wonder… Is he more likely to convert if I stay with him and try to help him to Christ? Or would a break up, a choice between masturbation et al. and me motivate him to change? I love him so much and see so much potential in him. In us. But I also feel so much pain… HELP, please!

I’m sorry to hear the challenges you’re going through in attempting to decide what to do, and how. I can only speak from the viewpoint of a woman who married her Prince Charming with a porn habit (that I didn’t even realize existed but should have caught on to the signs)…and it has not been an easy time attempting to seek peace in our marriage because of the porn. If I had it to do all over again, I doubt that I would try. Lots of tears, arguments, reconciliations, lies on his part to cover for the habit, more reconciliations, more lies, you get the picture. We’re finally (after a LONG time) at peace together most of the time, and still married, but it’s been real rough.
Please take it from someone who wishes she had known (as you do now) just what she was up against BEFORE marriage and think REAL hard before committing to a lifetime with someone.
There is also a support group here at CAF for women dealing with the porn habit of their husbands/boyfriends that you might want to join called, “Women Suffering Because of Unchastity.” It might be beneficial for you.
Prayers for you as you consider all the options.

 

[GaudeteSemper]

Thank you, bmaj!!!

I am blessed in that he has improved so much, is very honest, and also does not miss the porn or seek it out. The only time he watches is when someone at the firehouse turns it on when he is in the lounge area, and he generally sits for a while so as to not attract questions or taunts about why he isn’t watching before walking away with an excuse, often to call me! He is very open about everything, and we’ve had several conversations, all entirely on his initiative, about how he no longer wants anything to do with it, how he doesn’t want to see other women, how he is beginning to understand how distasteful it is, and so on. At one point, when we were confronted by a Playboy poster owned by a friend, I mentioned how, when I see such things, I cannot help but pity the girl and wonder what she is really like. She’s clearly more than a blonde in a bikini on poster number whatever. She was someone’s innocent little girl. Maybe she’s a beloved wife. Maybe she’s a mother. She is certainly a dear child of God! Who knows what a unique, precious personality she has? A poster may show all of her body, but it really doesn’t represent her at all. That really seemed to get him thinkkng… He certainly wouldn’t want anyone to look at me like that, nor his mother or a future daughter! He has really become committed to ensuring that our children, even if they do join the fire service, are totally protected from anything like porn, and has personally stepped away from it. Again, he has been in the room when the guy have been watching, but he actively tries to avoid such situations and is really developing a much thicker skin. He refuses to go to strip clubs, even though some friends do, and is really adament about that, despite the peer pressure.

Honestly, at about month four, picturing a future like the one you described, I completely gave up on our relationship and just passively went along with it without breaking up, but the past few months, he has, largely on his own, decided that certain things were moral/immoral and changed his behaviour. He has given me every reason to trust him and has only contined to improve.

So, yes, he could always change his mind, go behind my back, etc, but I think porn is no longer the threat it was. I could continue to list examples, but let’s just say that I have good evidence that the Holy Spirit is working in him, and thank God for that!!!

Over the past two months, we’ve reached a REALLY happy, healthy place. Instead of becoming angry (that was my tendency), preachy (also me), or kinda… whiny, I guess (him), we instead work as a team and bring frustrations to a discussion table, not to a boxing arena. It has worked really well. If he doesn’t understand why we can’t do this or that, he calmly asks if we can. He patiently asks for an explanation, which I calmly provide, and then he accepts the answer, and we move on. If he is particularly frustrated one day because we can’t do whatever, instead of nagging, begging, or complaining, he tells me that he is having a tough day with blank, and I do my best to emphasise and thank him for being so compromising and brave. Sometimes I try to relate via examples, which he really seems to appreciate, e.g. perhaps the firefighting culture’s tendency to equate loss of virginity with achieving manhood is similar to the significance of getting an engagement ring or becoming married and how much that means to me. So then we can discuss and get through things together. Formally, he’d be up all night at the station running calls because everyone else was out fornicating, and I’d be seeing photos on Facebook of friend after friend getting married or engaged, and we’d both let our jealousy and frustrstion build up until we’d take it out on each other. My fault, really, because I was unfortunately initially rather hostile… I’d interpret his every attempt to get some comfort and support as an attempt to pressure or nag me into doing something we couldn’t. But I thought and prayed hard, made some changes, and discovered that the results are just amazing!

 

[GaudeteSemper]

(Continued)

Yes, porn could still prove a problem, a massive, marriage-wrecking problem… But then again, any man can fall. My boyfriend is just starting to learn lessons with which other men were raised, but he is actually doing pretty well! Really, at this point, the issue is masturbation. Even when he used porn, it was quite rarely (a couple times a month), and when he stopped, he did not suffer any withdrawal symptoms and had basically no nagging desire to look at it again, so he definitely was not addicted. And those times he originally used porn, it was only as a masturbatory aid. THAT is his addiction, and even still, while it is still quite awful and a horrid sin, obviously, it still doesn’t occur that often. However, that is the habit he cannot easily kick, and it is a lot harder to persuade him that masturbation is immoral than it was porn, which he accepted rather quickly. Once he goes a week or so, he starts experiencing physical symptoms, and he finds those hard to resist, in addiction to the psychological enjoyment of orgasm. He’s been doing that for so many years, and he finds in it some solace for being (otherwise) chaste when everyone around him is blatantly not. He is still fairly young, too, so things are harder for him to control, but he is getting there. If he could just wait until the point at which things would reabsorb, he’d be just fine, but he has never before done that and doesn’t have much hope that it’ll work and the pain will subside. So that’s the real problem/battle, not the porn, I think. He has promised to never do that once we are married and to prove it to me before we take that step, and despite my initial skepticism toward him in general, throughout a year of being best friends, he has done nothing to deserve distrust and has never once lied. I am confident that he will continue to improve. And if he develops more spirituality and has religious motivation to improve himself, too… I know I probably sound naïve, but for months, I swore he could never be better or be worthy, and before that, I spent the rest of my life believing that nothing but the purest of men could possibly become decent mates and that none of the others could ever shape up. Over a year of friendship, his largely self-motivated improvements and changes broke down the contempt and distrust that I’d built up for over two decades. He changed me - but before we were dating, before love and emotions could cloud my vision.

In short, I am very concerned about having our future turn out like yours, but I do want to give him a chance. I think that time, prayers, and of course marriage prep will ultimately prove whether he deserves my trust or not. Thank you for the warning! I will pray for you and your marriage!!!

 

[GaudeteSemper]

(Sorry for any errors… Darn autocorrect!!!)

 

[bmaj]

(Continued)

Yes, porn could still prove a problem, a massive, marriage-wrecking problem… But then again, any man can fall. My boyfriend is just starting to learn lessons with which other men were raised, but he is actually doing pretty well! Really, at this point, the issue is masturbation. Even when he used porn, it was quite rarely (a couple times a month), and when he stopped, he did not suffer any withdrawal symptoms and had basically no nagging desire to look at it again, so he definitely was not addicted. And those times he originally used porn, it was only as a masturbatory aid. THAT is his addiction, and even still, while it is still quite awful and a horrid sin, obviously, it still doesn’t occur that often. However, that is the habit he cannot easily kick, and it is a lot harder to persuade him that masturbation is immoral than it was porn, which he accepted rather quickly. Once he goes a week or so, he starts experiencing physical symptoms, and he finds those hard to resist, in addiction to the psychological enjoyment of orgasm. He’s been doing that for so many years, and he finds in it some solace for being (otherwise) chaste when everyone around him is blatantly not. He is still fairly young, too, so things are harder for him to control, but he is getting there. If he could just wait until the point at which things would reabsorb, he’d be just fine, but he has never before done that and doesn’t have much hope that it’ll work and the pain will subside. So that’s the real problem/battle, not the porn, I think. He has promised to never do that once we are married and to prove it to me before we take that step, and despite my initial skepticism toward him in general, throughout a year of being best friends, he has done nothing to deserve distrust and has never once lied. I am confident that he will continue to improve. And if he develops more spirituality and has religious motivation to improve himself, too… I know I probably sound naïve, but for months, I swore he could never be better or be worthy, and before that, I spent the rest of my life believing that nothing but the purest of men could possibly become decent mates and that none of the others could ever shape up. Over a year of friendship, his largely self-motivated improvements and changes broke down the contempt and distrust that I’d built up for over two decades. He changed me - but before we were dating, before love and emotions could cloud my vision.
…
In short, I am very concerned about having our future turn out like yours, but I do want to give him a chance. I think that time, prayers, and of course marriage prep will ultimately prove whether he deserves my trust or not. Thank you for the warning! I will pray for you and your marriage!!!

I’m very glad you’re able to clearly see the work of the Holy Spirit in him through his progress! That’s excellent. He seems to be getting on the right track, which is a real good thing. And no marriage is ever perfect, since neither spouse is ever perfect, but warnings are important, too. Something to note about him only using the porn as an infrequent masturbatory aid… I’ve seen with my husband that the porn can become a real “crutch,” especially as the years go by, so much so that just being intimate with a wife, sometimes might not be nearly “enough” to even be able to complete the act without a real mental/physical struggle on his part. Marriage prep is so important to get all of this out in the open, and it sounds like you’re doing all you can to be sure that progression happens when necessary.
Thanks so much for your prayers, and you remain in mine as well!