Prayers for Judas?

[debraran]

I have never heard anyone was born to be in hell. That would seem cruel. I have never met a priest that totally condemed Judas but I did meet some that said in the past, when our church wrongly blamed Jews for killing Jesus, he was used to push the point. If John Paul ll, who is more learned in the area than most think he is salvagable, I wouldn’t argue. Interpretations of text differs among many and church beliefs (like Limbo) change or are interpreted by the faithful differently. As I said, if you read the gospel of Matthew, he doesn’t sound like an evil person and not much was written of him later that was kept anyway. If he was truely evil, he would of kept the money and became a criminal or whatever he wanted to do. Also I always thought “forgive them, they know not what they do” would apply to him also.
I agree with Mother Angelica on EWTN, that if he asked for forgiveness like Peter must have, what a beautiful gift that would of been to his followers, to see Jesus forgive him would give even more hope. Denying him 3 times was bad, but turning him over, hoping for him to fight, was worse. What an awful feeling he must of had as he saw him peacefully passive.

 

[Steven_Merten]

From the same article:

**Still the anathema maranatha is a censure from which the criminal may be absolved; although he is delivered to Satan and his angels, the Church, in virtue of the Power of the Keys, can receive him once more into the communion of the faithful. **

Hello VociMike,

The Church has the Christ given power to bind and loost souls to sin in heaven.

Judas was not anathematized by the Church. The Church, as I understand it, does not believe that She can loost a persons sins after death.

I remember when the Church was signing the Joint Catholic Lutheran document on Justification. The Church made it clear that Church anathema’s and condemnations on Martin Luther’s soul could not be loost in this day and age. They remain in place, unloost, by the Church to damn Luther’s soul to hell for all eternity. Church leaders did not say it in this exact way, but this was the jist of what they said.

The point I was making was not on the binding and loosting power of Apostolic Successors. It is the Church using Judas as burning in hell to explain what happens when they bind a soul to sin and do not loost it again. The unloost anathematized burn in hell with Judas according to the Church.

 

[debraran]

I meant to include these passages before. For what it’s worth, one is from a Vatican magazine, the other from a book review. It’s funny, regarding the “better you were never born” quote, as a small child it never occurred to me that he meant it as an evil thing. I thought Jesus meant because so many people would hate him. Not a scholarly thought, but hey, kids have “purer” ideas sometimes.

Magazine article:

Judas Iscariot to get Vatican makeover -12/01/06
Interpretations of Judas Iscariot, the disciple who betrayed Jesus with a kiss, are being rethought by Vatican scholars.

The proposed “rehabilitation” of the man who was paid 30 pieces of silver to identify Jesus to Roman soldiers in the Garden of Gethsemane, comes on the ground that he was not deliberately evil, but was just “fulfilling his part in God’s plan” reports the Times newspaper.

Historically Christians have often blamed Judas for aiding and abetting the Crucifixion, and his name is synonymous with treachery.

According to St Luke, Judas was “possessed by Satan”.

Now, a campaign led by Monsignor Walter Brandmuller, head of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Science, is aimed at persuading believers to look kindly at a man reviled for 2,000 years, reports the newspaper.

Mgr Brandmuller told fellow scholars it was time for a “re-reading” of the Judas story. He is supported by Vittorio Messori, a prominent Catholic writer close to both Pope Benedict XVI and the late John Paul II.

Part of review:
So what of Judas’s rehabilitation? Though the Catholic Church has a canonization process by which it declares certain persons to be saints, it has no such procedure for condemning people to hell. Jesus’s severe indictment of Judas–”It would be better for that man if he had never been born” (Matthew 26:24)–has led many to assume that Judas didn’t fare well after death. But even these words do not offer conclusive evidence regarding his fate. In his 1994 book, “Crossing the Threshold of Hope,” Pope John Paul II wrote that Jesus’s words regarding Judas “do not allude for certain to eternal damnation.” In other words, it’s in God’s hands.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

Well, I just hope we don’t get so sappy about Judas that we turn him into a tragic hero.

I certainly doubt that his turning Jesus over to the authorities resulted from some intuition that he had a heroic mission to perform by helping to get Jesus up on the cross.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Well, I just hope we don’t get so sappy about Judas that we turn him into a tragic hero.

I certainly doubt that his turning Jesus over to the authorities resulted from some intuition that he had a heroic mission to perform by helping to get Jesus up on the cross.

Hello Gilbert Keith,

I agree. Adolph Hitler, Judas, Satan all heroes fulfilling some sort of service to God? NOT!!!

Many times Jesus warns us that He will burn some people in hell or not forgive them. WARNING! Jesus Does Not Forgive All Obviously Jesus wants people to understand that He will damn some, possibly a majority of people, to hell (Jesus teaches that only a few find eternal life). I think all this worry about eternal life for Judas, Satan, Hitler, and the like, distracts from Jesus warnings on who, and potentially how many souls, He will damn to hell.
NAB MAT 7:13

How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.
**NAB MAT 8:21 **

Another of (his) disciples said to him, “Lord, let me go first and bury my father.” But Jesus answered him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead.”
**NAB MAT 13:47-50 **

The reign of God is also like a dragnet thrown into the lake, which collected all sorts of things. When it was full they hauled it ashore and sat down to put what was worthwhile into containers. What was useless they threw away. That is how it will be at the end of the world. Angels will go out and separate the wicked from the just and **hurl the wicked into the fiery furnace, where they will wail and grind their teeth. **
**NAB MAT 26:24 **

The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born."

 

[pbaylis]

… I dunno, personally I think he played an extremely important role in this earthly life. Would any of us exist today if Judas had not done what he had done?

Good point, but I don’t think it really follows. I mean you could say the same about Hitler or any other menace. Lessons were learned from such people that the world never wants a repeat of, and so the world is a better place because of it.

This is idle speculation but the thing that makes me wonder is why satan would try to influence anyone at all to kill Jesus if he knew all the ramifications of Jesus’ death, i.e. that many souls would be forgiven and the bridge back to God rebuilt after Adam’s damage? It makes me think that it was Jesus presence on earth and His teachings that are more important than His actual death, though we remember His death as the supreme act of obedience and love. But this may not be the case as it does appear that Jesus’ death was very important to God’s plan.

Otherwise, satan was an unwilling puppet of God acting completely against his preferred will and really only getting Judas out of the bargain (if indeed Judas is in hell). Or, satan simply didn’t know what the ramifications of Jesus’ death were.

I’ve probably got something completely wrong there, so I would love to hear others’ thoughts on this matter.

 

[gelsbern]

No one, but God really knows if Judas is in Hell or not. You are only to pray for the souls in Purgatory. If Judas killed himself with full knowledge, full consent of will, and with grave matter of commiting suicide to which it seems so abundantly clear in the Bible then Judas is in Hell. I personaly believe that he is because in my view the Bible makes it clear that he qualified for all three things. God speed.

The part bolded above jumped out at me, and I am wondering if it was just simply a typo.

If no one but God know who is where, how are we to pray only for the souls in Purgatory? I believe we are to pray for ALL souls.

I am going to assume it was just simply at typographical error.

 

[Gilbert_Keith]

Another thought.

If Judas is in purgatory, he’s ultimately heaven-bound and doesn’t require our prayers. If I was Judas and heaven-bound, I’d be content to be the last soul released before the last trumpet blows all in puratory right up to their justified thrones.

 

[debraran]

Gilbert Keith, I agree, better last than not at all. And we do pray for all souls, the prayers are always useful. I don’t think many suicides know how grave ithe act is, they are temporarily (or chronically) ill. My childhood friend was terrbilly depressed and I don’t think he thought of the ramifications of his suicide or the hurt he left. That’s why the church changed their views on it which were hurtfuly narrow many years ago.
I also was taught that Judas never intended Jesus to die, he was almost instantly remourseful when they led him away and Jesus didn’t protest. For Petes sake, don’t compare him to Hitler and Stalin that tortured and killed people with no remorse for years. Jesus even told him he would betray him, when Judas said "Is it I? Then he tells him to go do it quickly. He didn’t want him too, but it does seem like it was the way it had to be to tell him to go. I hope I get the chance when I die to know things as they actually were. It’s so hard with so much time and translation to get things exact, but the important things are simply clear.
I hope like many souls that die unexpectedly or before they can say “I’m sorry” that he got that chance. On EWTN, the priest states that a lot, in most ways, you send yourself to hell, even if you have a very long pergatory, if you sincerely are sorry, you are forgiven, but only God can read your heart.

 

[Neo_Canaan]

The only thing God and jesus can read is the mind and soul–the heart just pumps blood. And overall, it’s confusing.

 

[WestonGrant]

Jesus called him the son of perdition and that it would be better for him if he’d never been born. This all sounds like the everyone may be saved line that has nothing to do with traditional Catholicism.