Prayers for the conversion of the Jews to be abolished

[kleary]

This rumor is absolutely false.

In order to make such change Pope Benedict XVI would have to issue a new missal for the Extraordinary Form.

If this happens it WILL be met with much resistance and will definitely place reunification of the SSPX in jeopardy…when it seems to be going good right now.

Another issue that proves this false is that SP mentions only the useage of the 1962 Missal for the celebraton of the EF…if the Pope was concerned about the prayers for the conversion of the Jews…of which they ARE INDEED BLIND NOT TO SEE THEIR GOD AND KING BORN AS AN INFANT IN BETHLEHEM…he would have indeed issued a new missal for the EF useage at the time he published the MP.

Ken

 

[VARC]

If it is true that the pope will change an ancient prayer to be politically correct, it would be a tradegy for the RCC. What’s next? Can’t pray for the conversion of protestants, muslims, ect. Let’s just shut down all missionary activity. It’s way too offensive.

 

[Seminarian_X]

I realize I’m a new bee. But…

Shouldn’t we wait until this change is actually implemented to react, rather than getting our panties in a knot over a rumor published in a newspaper?

 

[Paten]

Now you are making things up. That didn’t really happen now did it.?

It happened. It was an older woman so things continued, but it was clear that as least a few people were sharing her smirk.

 

[Paten]

This rumor is absolutely false.

In order to make such change Pope Benedict XVI would have to issue a new missal for the Extraordinary Form.

If this happens it WILL be met with much resistance and will definitely place reunification of the SSPX in jeopardy…when it seems to be going good right now.

Another issue that proves this false is that SP mentions only the useage of the 1962 Missal for the celebraton of the EF…if the Pope was concerned about the prayers for the conversion of the Jews…of which they ARE INDEED BLIND NOT TO SEE THEIR GOD AND KING BORN AS AN INFANT IN BETHLEHEM…he would have indeed issued a new missal for the EF useage at the time he published the MP.

Ken

The tail don’t wag the dog.

 

[Paten]

I think we would all like some clarification or examples of this if you would provide some. Throwing out blanket statements on this forum really isn’t the best way to advance your position…

One example are “trads” at my Eastern Catholic Parish. Everything from the Church tells them to stand, yet they kneel.

 

[SemperFidelis]

Simply put the prayers can be re-formulated without loss of strength or efficacy. They’ll just no longer be offensive.

The secular Jews will still be offended until a prayer is composed that contains nothing short of no mentioning of conversion. So, what’s the point, especially when you’re changing a prayer that has been around (for the most part) for thirteen centuries? The “trads” as you so call them, will be upset. Either way, it’s a lose-lose situation for everybody except a few vocal Jews, and even they won’t be happy in the end. They just want to see the Church “dance.”

The change will be made by the Church and not by Jews – of any sort.

Clearly you have a different perception of reality.

I doubt changing the prayers will destroy any possibility of the sspx returning to the Church. However if that were the case, then the sspx has some thinking to do.

Once again: clearly you have a different perception of reality.

As an example, on the last First Friday we had a Rosary. As people were voicing their intentions, someone gave a beauty – something along the lines of “may all our Christian and Jewish brethren experience the absolute fullness of the Christian faith by taking the steps necessary to enter into perfect communion with His Church, the Catholic Church.” A gorgeous intention.

Sadly it was followed by someone else with something like “may all heretics and apostates, particularly the Jews and the Muslims repent from the evilness of their ways and enter the Church.” Talk about offensive! By the sneer on her face she KNEW that she was being offensive too. Down deep it was an important intention, but the crude and ignorant language turned it into nothing more than an insult.

That’s nice.

 

[Seminarian_X]

It happened. It was an older woman so things continued, but it was clear that as least a few people were sharing her smirk.

Shouldn’t you have been more concerned with meditating on the mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary instead of studying intently the expressions on other people’s faces?

 

[kleary]

The tail don’t wag the dog.

Is the 1962 Missal the tail and the Roman Pontiff the dog or vice versa?

The Roman Pontiff can indeed make a change…but NOT in a missal dated 1962. The edition of the Missal would be 2008 and not 1962. This is shown by the 1962 Missal itself, where minor changes were made by Pope John XXIII to the previously issued missal.

Ken

 

[Paten]

Shouldn’t you have been more concerned with meditating on the mysteries of the Most Holy Rosary instead of studying intently the expressions on other people’s faces?

Nope, it was right at the beginning and it was offensive enough for all of us to look over towards her.

 

[Jenny_Z]

Some of you would really leave the Church to join SSPX over a prayer?

I’ll pray for you

 

[reggieM]

I agree that it’s a good organic development for the 1962 missal.

I can’t see a good reason to call the Jews blind or perfidious in our liturgy. We can pray for them without calling them names or creating a negative image of them.

It’s always been difficult to separate Judiasm from the race of people called the Jews. People who belong to the Jewish race can become very holy Catholics – much holier than any of us and as canonized saints raised to our altars. So in that case, it’s not right to say that the race itself is blind. That puts too much focus on the race of the people.

Neither Jew nor Greek … race is not the issue. Bloodlines do not guarantee sanctity, nor does color of skin mean a sinful condition.

 

[Dauphin]

I have more respect for the Holy Father than to attack his choice before he’s been given a chance to explain it. Everyone should wait until the revised prayer is released.

 

[Harpazo]

It’s things like this that will strain not only SSPX reunification, but also Orthodox as well. I’m hoping nothing will come of this, to where a huge change strains.

This does have me deeply worried and concerned.

Pace e Bene
Andrew

 

[edward_george]

I’m with all those who say we should just watch and wait. I think this is a lot of pink smoke over an unsubstantiated rumor, and if you ask me it’s a media effort to make the Pope look bad after the La Sapienza incident turned around to be positive for the Holy Father (students showed up at his Angelus to show support in spite of their fellow students protesting just days before). If you are familiar at all with the thought of Pope Benedict as evidenced by his copious scholarly writings, such a change would be the exact opposite of what he believes in. This would completely go against the thinking behind Summorum Pontificum, not to mention most of His Holiness’ work on liturgical theology.

I think this is a tempest in a teapot, and all in all, it doesn’t add up. Like any tempest, I expect this to blow over pretty soon.

-ACEGC

 

[AlexV]

Frankly, I highly doubt there will be any change.

If there is, it could be the introduction of an OPTIONAL alternative prayer, newly composed, or (I highly, highly doubt this) the optional use of the 1970 prayer.

The prayer in the 1962 Missal is only offensive to people who are looking for trouble. If Benedict weren’t German, if he hadn’t served in an anti-aircraft unit in Nazi Germany, this wouldn’t even be mentioned. Nobody said a word about this prayer in 1988, and some communities have used it for THE LAST TWENTY YEARS with zero word from Foxman and his cronies.

Much ado about nothing…

 

[Seminarian_X]

Nope, it was right at the beginning and it was offensive enough for all of us to look over towards her.

You should have kept your eyes downcast and your mind raised to God and charitably attributed her outburst to her age rather than any ill will on her part.

Or at least I’m certain that’s what my spiritual director would have told me.

 

[Kaninchen]

Perhaps there should be a general religious agreement that regular prayers should be said for conversions. We Jews could, for example, pray for the conversion of the perfidious Catholics to Buddhism and perfidious Muslims to Mormonism and so on amongst all religious groups.

Then nobody would be offended without being reminded “Well, you pray . . . . .” Seems fair.

 

[Seminarian_X]

The English word perfidious is not an exact approximation for the Latin word formerly used.

And the question is moot anyway since that word doesn’t appear in the 1962 Missal.

Further, it takes an extreme degree of presumption for anyone to dictate to the Catholic Church the words she uses in her sacred rites. One might call it “chutzpah.”

 

[Valke2]

The English word perfidious is not an exact approximation for the Latin word formerly used.

And the question is moot anyway since that word doesn’t appear in the 1962 Missal.

Further, it takes an extreme degree of presumption for anyone to dictate to the Catholic Church the words she uses in her sacred rites. One might call it “chutzpah.”

On the other hand, some jews might be concerend that Church doctrine, driving Church policy, driving chrisitan behavior towards jews, has been an issue in the past.