Prayers to Mary

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Guys, we are going off-topic again. I apologize. I get into this, too, but the last thread got closed because of this very thing.

The topic is about the wording of prayers said to Mary.

Cristian, would you start a thread on your views of “asleep” and “death” (I find it absolutely fascinating)? I don’t want to start one because I don’t really accept it, but I think you could do it well.

I know it’s very hard for us to stay on-topic. I’m having problems, too. This thread just seems to naturally veer off-topic, but if we continue with this current discussion I’m afraid the moderator will close the thread and then Fair Lady will have to start over (again).
 
I disagree. The physical death is when your soul falls asleep. Everyone falls asleep. Even Jesus fell asleep; it is just that He woke up earlier, so He might be on the right of the Father. So every human falls asleep. At the great day of the judgment, all the fallen asleep shall awake. Some will receive spiritual death, which means annihilation. And others, at the first resurrection, will receive eternal life. God can destroy souls. We are not immortal. But He does not destroy them now, but at the end of times. Do not believe the oldest of Satan’s lies: “You will not surely die”. It is amazing how people can still believe this lie, that they will live forever in Hell. The Lake of Fire kills you. You disappear. Your soul dies. You do not live forever. You are mortal. Mortal means that you die, physically and spiritually. You can only live forever in Heaven. Hell is death, and when you die you cease to exist. Those thrown it the Lake of Fire will die, and their death is forever. Hell is death, complete death. Heaven is life, eternal life. The “You will not surely die” is still believed, which surprises me.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

By this we understand that those that do not believe in God will die, but those who believe in Him will live. Of course,everyone has a physical death. To “perish” means spiritual death. Death means ceasing to exist, physically and spiritually.
Some do die, the eternal death of damnation… Eternal life is eternal connection to God, death is the eternal seperation…

Do you think that “…the wages of sin is death…” will suddenly stop being true at some point?
 
Some do die, the eternal death of damnation… Eternal life is eternal connection to God, death is the eternal seperation…
God is Life. Being separated from God being separated from life. If you do not have life, you do not exist. You might struggle to live for a few seconds more (like we do), but if you have lost your connection with life, then you are dead: sooner of later. Those separated from God are dead. That means thrown into the Lake of Fire and die.
Do you think that “…the wages of sin is death…” will suddenly stop being true at some point?
No.
 
God is Life. Being separated from God being separated from life. If you do not have life, you do not exist. You might struggle to live for a few seconds more (like we do), but if you have lost your connection with life, then you are dead: sooner of later. Those separated from God are dead. That means thrown into the Lake of Fire and die.

No.
Exactly, this is how your prior argument makes no sense. This argument, contradicts what you were trying to say just a few posts ago.
 
Exactly, this is how your prior argument makes no sense. This argument, contradicts what you were trying to say just a few posts ago.
I am honestly confused. Would you mind to quote my apparent contradiction?
 
I disagree. The physical death is when your soul falls asleep. Everyone falls asleep. Even Jesus fell asleep; it is just that He woke up earlier, so He might be on the right of the Father. So every human falls asleep. At the great day of the judgment, all the fallen asleep shall awake. Some will receive spiritual death, which means annihilation. And others, at the first resurrection, will receive eternal life. God can destroy souls. We are not immortal. But He does not destroy them now, but at the end of times. Do not believe the oldest of Satan’s lies: “You will not surely die”. It is amazing how people can still believe this lie, that they will live forever in Hell. The Lake of Fire kills you. You disappear. Your soul dies. You do not live forever. You are mortal. Mortal means that you die, physically and spiritually. You can only live forever in Heaven. Hell is death, and when you die you cease to exist. Those thrown it the Lake of Fire will die, and their death is forever. Hell is death, complete death. Heaven is life, eternal life. The “You will not surely die” is still believed, which surprises me.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

By this we understand that those that do not believe in God will die, but those who believe in Him will live. Of course,everyone has a physical death. To “perish” means spiritual death. Death means ceasing to exist, physically and spiritually.
Um, when we “fall asleep” do we have measurable brain waves? Do we go through the normal stages of sleep? Or do you really mean something other than “sleep?”
 
Just popping in to let you all know I’m not ignoring you. My computer’s very sick and in the hospital so won’t be back until all’s well with it. Nice to see there’s still a fair amount of discussion happening. See you all later.
 
There is a wonderful free website with priest approved Marion Visions at www.marysfinalmessage.com God Bless!
I just want to note that the supposed appearance of Mary at Medjugorde is coming under intense scrutiny by the Catholic Church and as far as I know, it has not been officially determined that she actually appeared there. I have never heard of any supposed apparition in Boise, but I would be very, very careful in using this website.

The Catholic Church has not accepted the theory that the apparitions at Medjugorde are actually occurring, or if they are, that they are of the Blessed Mother, Mary.

The website from the post quoted above links the “visions” at Medjugorde with those in Boise. I don’t think this is legitimate.

This is not Church teaching.

I’ll try to find a website with official documentation as soon as I can.

Also, this thread is about the wording of certain prayers to Mary. As the OP has announced that her computer is “in the hospital” I think we need to make an effort to stay on topic. I’m seeing this thread take off in several directions.

Can we please stay on topic??
 
Just popping in to let you all know I’m not ignoring you. My computer’s very sick and in the hospital so won’t be back until all’s well with it. Nice to see there’s still a fair amount of discussion happening. See you all later.
Thanks for the update! Will pray for your sister. Heck, I’ll even ask Our Lady to pray for your sister. Hope all will go well.
 
I shall answer with a question: are you dead when you’re asleep?

dead = asleep

Of course, we will resurrect at the end of times, and we will have a new heaven and earth. So while this heaven and earth are still here, nobody is going anywhere. While this sky and this earth is here, nobody is resurrecting to get eternal life.

I am sure that there are more in the Bible, but these are more than enough to realize that we are sleeping, and that there will be no immediate judgment from our point of view. Actually, for the dead, or asleep, time has no importance. Time does not affect them. Either if they died 2,000 years ago, or a day before the ending of times, it will be the same for them. Their last breath is on earth, and the new one would be at the judgment or in the new earth. But it will only take a breath (breath being the time between breathing). A second, if you wish to call it that way. So the dead are asleep waiting for the resurrection.
Sorry, but I had to delete most of your post because of space constraints.

A breath is the time between breathing? I really think you need to work on your analogy a bit. It is very confusing to me. A breath is the actual inhalation or exhalation of air and is breathing (as in “taking a breath” means inhaling). I don’t understand what you are trying to say here.

Of course this whole topic is not the topic of this thread, and as Fair Lady is unable to communicate very well right now, I think we should get back to the topic as stated in the OP - the wording of certain prayers to Mary.

Cristian, you have some very interesting ideas about what Scripture means and I really wish you would start a thread about some of them. This isn’t the place. I keep getting caught up in what you are saying, forgetting the thread we are on, and suddenly I discover that I am off topic.

Could we please stay on topic? If we don’t, the thread will be closed.
 
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! No. Oh my gosh! Thank you for pointing that out! I really did read, “sister,” when I read that. Oi!😃
You actually read “sister” from “computer”???

LOL, I thought I was the only one who did things like that!!! 😃

I thought maybe it was a joke that I had been left out of…:o
 
I think that is the first time I’ve ever done something like that; I mean, that wasn’t even close! Not the same letters, or syllables, or rhyming or nothing! NOTHING!

Anyway, I have read of a case (I believe this was real and not just a story) where an Italian woman bowed before a statue of Mary and started praying through Our Lady, then saying the Hail Mary, and then, talking to Mary like she would any other woman who had children. She was talking to her mother-to-mother because Mary would understand what she is going through with her adult son and you know, sometimes you just need a friend to talk to who will understand.

I am including this in the hopes that it is read by the OP when she can log back on to her sister* to see it’s not just for intentions. Of course, I don’t know if this reflects anybody here and I don’t know if you’ll count it because it’s not first hand.

*Deliberate.
 
I don’t believe we need an intercessor between Jesus and ourselves.
I’ve been confused by this thread because it seemed more of a one-brief-response-and-the-OP-is-answered sort of thing. Someone here explained the difference between latria and dulia and that would seem to be it.

But I think the above statement by Fair Lady perhaps gets to the heart of the confusion, so I’ll address that. Those of us who pray to Mary do not think we need an intercessor between Jesus and ourselves. We simply prefer it.

Also, all prayers to Mary, no matter how they are actually worded, are prayers for intercession. So the issue with the wording of some of the prayers listed here is, in fact, a non-issue.
 
I think that is the first time I’ve ever done something like that; I mean, that wasn’t even close! Not the same letters, or syllables, or rhyming or nothing! NOTHING!

Anyway, I have read of a case (I believe this was real and not just a story) where an Italian woman bowed before a statue of Mary and started praying through Our Lady, then saying the Hail Mary, and then, talking to Mary like she would any other woman who had children. She was talking to her mother-to-mother because Mary would understand what she is going through with her adult son and you know, sometimes you just need a friend to talk to who will understand.

I am including this in the hopes that it is read by the OP when she can log back on to her sister* to see it’s not just for intentions. Of course, I don’t know if this reflects anybody here and I don’t know if you’ll count it because it’s not first hand.

*Deliberate.
Maybe it’s some kind of Freudian slip. 😃

What you wrote here made me think of prayers and how they are worded and how personal they can be. I know that a lot of non-Catholics believe we pray to statues, which always seemed a bit weird of an idea for anyone to have.

My neighbor’s Mom passed away and one day about six months later I was at my neighbor’s house - we were getting ready to go somewhere. Right before we walked out the door she picked up a framed photo of her Mom and kissed it.

I wonder what these same people would make of this incident. I suppose they would think that my neighbor was under the assumption that she was actually kissing her Mom. Uh, right.

Or what about people who go to cemeteries, plop themselves down on the grass in front of the marker and have a heart-to-heart talk with their late mother or father or other loved one? I don’t see anything wrong with it. In fact, I think it is very healthy, unless of course, one spends all of one’s time there and doesn’t get on with one’s life.

I know the OP hasn’t brought this up - all this stuff about praying to statues and things like that, but maybe some people are reading this thread and need to know that Catholics do not pray to statues and we do not worship Mary as a divine god or even a demi-god.

She is the most blessed human being ever created (with the exception of Jesus, who is all man and all God) and is loved deeply by Jesus. To be Christ-like, we should love her, too.

I wonder if Fair Lady has ever emailed the webmaster of the site she took the prayers from to tell him/her of her concerns. It may very well be possible that the prayers are using archaic language, or were translated from another language and something was lost. I haven’t read the prayers for a long time and I only read them once, but they seemed a bit “old” to me - I mean time-wise.

But I still believe that the most important point is that they are personal prayers and the webmaster has stated that he/she is not a representative of the Catholic Church, his/her diocese, or his/her parish. It’s very easy for anyone to set up a blog and print whatever they want to print. In fact, a post on this thread was deleted a few days ago because it provided a link to an unapproved website with info about visions of Mary that have not been verified by the Church, yet the poster stated that the prayers associated with that website are approved.
 
I’ve been confused by this thread because it seemed more of a one-brief-response-and-the-OP-is-answered sort of thing. Someone here explained the difference between latria and dulia and that would seem to be it.

But I think the above statement by Fair Lady perhaps gets to the heart of the confusion, so I’ll address that. Those of us who pray to Mary do not think we need an intercessor between Jesus and ourselves. We simply prefer it.

Also, all prayers to Mary, no matter how they are actually worded, are prayers for intercession. So the issue with the wording of some of the prayers listed here is, in fact, a non-issue.
Of course, as Catholics (or other Christians) we believe that Mary was and is dependent upon God for her very creation, as we all are. Every good thing that Mary has done is because of God and His grace. It’s so obvious but maybe non-Catholics don’t think we are aware of it.

A few posts ago someone (somewhat angrily IMO) stated (paraphrasing) that it’s OK to pray to Mary but that we should pray twice (or more) as much to (or about) Jesus. I took some offense at that statement. That poster can pray as much as he wants to Jesus and I can pray as much as I want to Jesus and as much as I want to Mary.

Mary’s soul magnifies the Lord. She stated so herself (Luke 1:46).
 
I am honestly confused. Would you mind to quote my apparent contradiction?
Sorry to take so long posting back, I have to play a balancing act trying to not post too much at work (have been) along with actually responding to people I’m conversing with. It’s not ideal, if only it pleased the Lord for me to win the lotto so I could make these wonderful debates a full time job 😉

Anyway, you are contradictnig your self by trying to have it both ways. Dead people are dead, but not really because they can’t be… So we’ll call that um, sleep… Since that seems to appear sometimes in the bible.

The problem is, sleep refers to a peaceful transition from mortal life here on earth, to greater life in heaven with God. Typically those who sin far less than I I’m afraid (for me :p) such as the Virgin Mary, Joseph (by tradition, experienced a very peacefull “death”) and the like, as well as enumerable examples you’ve already found directly in scripture.

Further more, I think you would probably not disagree that all the “Saints” are members of the body of Christ correct? That is to say, all the justified dead (that’s what a saint is btw, all it means is you’re in heaven with God) are still in fact members of the Body of Crist. As it says in scripture, nothing can seperate you from Christ, other than your own choice to be seperated (and be eternally damned). To suggest that the Saints are in fact “sleeping”, would then suggest that the body of Christ is (victorious no less), is in fact asleep. Or at the very best, the majority of the body (all the dead in Christ) are sleeping, while a minority of the body (militant, here on earth) is awake.

Theologically, this seems like an odd senario.
Just popping in to let you all know I’m not ignoring you. My computer’s very sick and in the hospital so won’t be back until all’s well with it. Nice to see there’s still a fair amount of discussion happening. See you all later.
Sorry to hear about your troubles, I hope that all will be repaired soon (and cheaply).
 
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