Prayers to Mary

[Kay_Cee]

That is an important question and I just haven’t got around to it.

Ultimately, God knows if our prayers are in accordance with His will. He also knows our hearts inside and out.

As believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, we need to get to know God in an intimate way through His word. The more we get to know God, the more we will know His will as it is written in scripture. If we pray for things that are contrary to His word, we know it is out of His will. If we pray for things that are scripturally sound, we are on the right track.

Sometimes I have desires that I’m not sure would be in the will of God. Then I will ask simply that God’s will be done in that situation. There is nothing more right in the outcome of my request than for it to be in the will of God, even if it isn’t something that I would not have chosen. But I recognize that God’s ways are not our ways and He knows the begining from the end, so I need to trust Him for where He takes me and what He gives to me.

I’ going to post a web page that I think provides good additional information on this subject: allaboutprayer.org/in-the-name-of-jesus-faq.htm

Are you aware this is the method Mormons use to claim the Book of Mormon is the word of God?

Here’s the problem: Just how do you know what you’re hearing is from God? What test do you employ to know–and know with utter certainty–that your answer is coming from God?

If what you are saying is true, why are there thousands of different Protestant denominations teaching opposing doctrines yet all claiming to abide by God’s will? Some Protestants claim it is God’s will that we baptize babies, but other Protestants claim baptizing babies is not God’s will. All of them claim to be going by the Bible and that they are in accordance with God’s will. How do we determine who is right? If the answer is “we just ask and He tells us” then why do Protestants continue to teach opposing doctrines?

And here’s another quandary: Let’s suppose you ask God if those prayers are okay, and you get the sense that He’s telling you they’re not. But let’s suppose I ask Him if those prayers are okay, and I get the sense that He’s telling me they are. We both–with all of our hearts–wish to abide by God’s will. How do we determine who is right?

Sorry, but I don’t need to read your website. If your method worked, we would see all Christians united in their doctrine. Since that is not the case, that method obviously does not work.

So I will ask the question again, and this time please give me a method I can rely on:

Who decides if the prayer is in accordance with God’s will?

 

[Cristian_B]

Who decides if the prayer is in accordance with God’s will?

God. Who can know His will better than Himself?

 

[Kay_Cee]

God. Who can know His will better than Himself?

How do ***you ***know if a prayer is in accordance with God’s will? (Please note: this thread is about how a prayer is worded)

 

[Cristian_B]

How do ***you ***know if a prayer is in accordance with God’s will? (Please note: this thread is about how a prayer is worded)

How does one express his will? By words and actions. Some actions can confuse you, since demons can do part of them as well. “God, please take the life of my neighbor because he is sooo annoying!”. This is obviously against His will: “Love thy neighbor as yourself” and “Thou shall not kill” and we know that whoever hates his brothers is a murderer. You see that His word is infallible because you know they are His words. But you don’t know if some actions are His actions. For example: “God, if you will do as I asked in the previous prayer (kill my neighbor), make the book on the shelf fall on the ground”. The book falls. This could be done by a demon as well. Actions like these can be confusing (because of free will He will rarely do anything beyond that). But we surely know that His Word is truly His Word. There is no doubt here. So it is the only reliable source to know His will. We say that we know His will by the Bible because the Bible gives us instructions of what to do in any scenario that could happen to us. Not how to save your life but how to save your eternal life. Tell me a scenario in which the Bible does not give any instructions (don’t go science-fiction).

 

[LittleSoldier]

How does one express his will? By words and actions. Some actions can confuse you, since demons can do part of them as well. “God, please take the life of my neighbor because he is sooo annoying!”. This is obviously against His will: “Love thy neighbor as yourself” and “Thou shall not kill” and we know that whoever hates his brothers is a murderer. You see that His word is infallible because you know they are His words. But you don’t know if some actions are His actions. For example: “God, if you will do as I asked in the previous prayer (kill my neighbor), make the book on the shelf fall on the ground”. The book falls. This could be done by a demon as well. Actions like these can be confusing (because of free will He will rarely do anything beyond that). But we surely know that His Word is truly His Word. There is no doubt here. So it is the only reliable source to know His will. We say that we know His will by the Bible because the Bible gives us instructions of what to do in any scenario that could happen to us. Not how to save your life but how to save your eternal life. Tell me a scenario in which the Bible does not give any instructions (don’t go science-fiction).

This thread is about how prayers to Mary are worded. But I think this is on-topic, although it’s veering off. Please be careful because this is how the last thread got closed.

Let’s take that Commandment: Thou Shalt not Kill.

It’s straightforward, comes right from the Bible, and therefore is the inspired word of God, right?

Do you ever kill? Have you ever killed? The Commandment says nothing about killing people.

Have you ever killed a bug? A plant? What about the millions of little creatures you have killed during your life without even knowing it? Have you broken that Commandment?

I do believe you have, at least according to what you are saying in your post. You’ve broken it over and over and over and over and you will continue to break that Commandment.

What is my point with all this?

Either you take the Bible literally or you don’t. If you take it literally you are in trouble because it contradicts itself over and over again. If you don’t take it literally you have to interpret it. How do you do that? By the power of the Holy Spirit? Well, let’s say I am a Mormon and I believe with all my heart and faith that the Book of Mormon is correct. Who are you to say it isn’t? How do you really know it isn’t?

Tell me why I can’t accept the Book of Mormon as the inspired word of God.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Tell me a scenario in which the Bible does not give any instructions (don’t go science-fiction).

in-vitro fertilization.

 

[Kay_Cee]

How does one express his will?

That is ***not ***what I asked. Please stick to what I asked by using the quote function.

By words and actions. Some actions can confuse you, since demons can do part of them as well. “God, please take the life of my neighbor because he is sooo annoying!”. This is obviously against His will: “Love thy neighbor as yourself” and “Thou shall not kill” and we know that whoever hates his brothers is a murderer. You see that His word is infallible because you know they are His words. But you don’t know if some actions are His actions. For example: “God, if you will do as I asked in the previous prayer (kill my neighbor), make the book on the shelf fall on the ground”. The book falls. This could be done by a demon as well. Actions like these can be confusing (because of free will He will rarely do anything beyond that). But we surely know that His Word is truly His Word. There is no doubt here. So it is the only reliable source to know His will.

How do you know the Bible is the only reliable source to know God’s will? If that is your only reliable source to know God’s will, the only way you could reliably know that it is God’s will that we use only the Bible as a reliable source of His will, is from the Bible, right? Please quote book, chapter, and verse that tells us the Bible is the only reliable source of God’s will.

We say that we know His will by the Bible because the Bible gives us instructions of what to do in any scenario that could happen to us. Not how to save your life but how to save your eternal life. Tell me a scenario in which the Bible does not give any instructions (don’t go science-fiction).

Here’s just two off the top of my head:

1. The Bible mentions marriage. Where does the Bible give instructions on how one enters into marriage? Is there an age limit? Are vows necessary? Please quote book, chapter, and verse that shows these things.
2. Where does the Bible give us instructions on which books belong in the Bible? Please quote book, chapter, and verse.

But this thread is about petitioning God. **It is about how prayers are *worded *and whether or not the way they are worded is in accordance with God’s will.

Please stick to the topic of the thread.

 

[Cristian_B]

This thread is about how prayers to Mary are worded. But I think this is on-topic, although it’s veering off. Please be careful because this is how the last thread got closed.

Let’s take that Commandment: Thou Shalt not Kill.

It’s straightforward, comes right from the Bible, and therefore is the inspired word of God, right?

Do you ever kill? Have you ever killed? The Commandment says nothing about killing people.

Have you ever killed a bug? A plant? What about the millions of little creatures you have killed during your life without even knowing it? Have you broken that Commandment?

I do believe you have, at least according to what you are saying in your post. You’ve broken it over and over and over and over and you will continue to break that Commandment.

What is my point with all this?

Either you take the Bible literally or you don’t. If you take it literally you are in trouble because it contradicts itself over and over again. If you don’t take it literally you have to interpret it. How do you do that? By the power of the Holy Spirit? Well, let’s say I am a Mormon and I believe with all my heart and faith that the Book of Mormon is correct. Who are you to say it isn’t? How do you really know it isn’t?

Tell me why I can’t accept the Book of Mormon as the inspired word of God.

I was wrong. Sorry. It is “Thou shall not murder”.

The Jewish sages note that the word “ratsakh” applies only to illegal killing (e.g., premeditated murder or manslaughter) — and is never used in the administration of justice or for killing in war. Hence the KJV translation as “thou shalt not kill” is too broad.

Since man is made in the image of God, his life is infinitely precious — only God Himself has the right to give and take life. In the Mishnah it is written, “Why was only one man (i.e., Adam) created by God? — to teach that whoever takes a single life destroys thereby a whole world.”

But murder can be figurative as well as literal. The Talmud notes that shaming another publicly is like murder, since the shame causes the blood to leave the face. Moreover, gossip or slander are considered murderous to the dignity of man. The Pirkei Avot (Ethics of the Fathers) states, “The evil tongue slays three persons: the utterer of the evil, the listener, and the one spoken about…” The Lord Jesus also linked the ideas of our words and attitudes with murder (see Matt. 15:19).

Source of the quote: levitt.com/hebrew/commandments.html#c6

As you see, it is “not murder”, not “not kill”. My mistake, I apologize again.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I was wrong. Sorry. It is “Thou shall not murder”.

Source of the quote: levitt.com/hebrew/commandments.html#c6

As you see, it is “not murder”, not “not kill”. My mistake, I apologize again.

Yes, it is “not murder”, not “not kill.” I knew that. No problem.

Thank you.

 

[Cristian_B]

in-vitro fertilization.

I believe that God cares more about the sperm you use in having a child than what technique you use. Don’t you? So if you use your husband’s sperm to do it, then it is not adultery. The purpose of sex is to produce life. “Do not commit adultery” is synonymous with “Do not try to conceive children with other people except your husband”. So even if you are having sex for pleasure, your body is still trying to conceive children. So you must not conceive children with other people except your husband. If you use the sperm of a stranger, it is adultery but if you use your husband’s then it is not. Of course that adultery has other meanings as well; mine is included. Did you ever think that “in vitro fertilization” could be a blessing to some married couples? Of course, in vitro fertilization could be a sin or not, depending on your intentions. “Do everything in love”. If what you are doing is not in love, then it is sin. If you give money to the poor because of selfish reasons, then you are not doing it because of love, so it is wrong. But it is better to conceive a child with and in love using in vitro fertilization than giving money to the poor because of selfishness or other sinful reasons. So it depends of your intentions. If you go to war because if you wouldn’t go, the enemy would kill your family, then it is not sin to go to war and kill the enemy in the battle field. But if you take a wounded enemy from the battlefield and torture him because of your sinful and selfish reasons, then it is sin. If you wouldn’t got o war then your loved ones would suffer. God also sent His people to war. But it was good because He had good reasons. So, generally, it depends on the intentions we have while using in vitro fertilization, and not in the fact itself.

EDIT: Of course, it is better to stay as you are. I would recommend not doing it, but it depends on the situation.

 

[LittleSoldier]

I believe that God cares more about the sperm you use in having a child than what technique you use. Don’t you? So if you use your husband’s sperm to do it, then it is not adultery. The purpose of sex is to produce life. “Do not commit adultery” is synonymous with “Do not try to conceive children with other people except your husband”. So even if you are having sex for pleasure, your body is still trying to conceive children. So you must not conceive children with other people except your husband. If you use the sperm of a stranger, it is adultery but if you use your husband’s then it is not. Of course that adultery has other meanings as well; mine is included. Did you ever think that “in vitro fertilization” could be a blessing to some married couples? Of course, in vitro fertilization could be a sin or not, depending on your intentions. “Do everything in love”. If what you are doing is not in love, then it is sin. If you give money to the poor because of selfish reasons, then you are not doing it because of love, so it is wrong. But it is better to conceive a child with and in love using in vitro fertilization than giving money to the poor because of selfishness or other sinful reasons. So it depends of your intentions. If you go to war because if you wouldn’t go, the enemy would kill your family, then it is not sin to go to war and kill the enemy in the battle field. But if you take a wounded enemy from the battlefield and torture him because of your sinful and selfish reasons, then it is sin. If you wouldn’t got o war then your loved ones would suffer. God also sent His people to war. But it was good because He had good reasons. So, generally, it depends on the intentions we have while using in vitro fertilization, and not in the fact itself.

EDIT: Of course, it is better to stay as you are. I would recommend not doing it, but it depends on the situation.

This has nothing to do with what I stated in my post. Here is a quote from an earlier post, posted under your username:

We say that we know His will by the Bible because the Bible gives us instructions of what to do in any scenario that could happen to us. Not how to save your life but how to save your eternal life. Tell me a scenario in which the Bible does not give any instructions (don’t go science-fiction).

You stated that the Bible “gives us instructions of what to do in any scenario that could happen to us.” I have provided an example (in-vitro fertilization) of a scenario in which the Bible does not give any instructions.

What you have given me, here, is nothing from the Bible (that I can see), and some personal advice which I never requested. What I want to know is where the Bible “gives us instructions in what to do in any scenario” - specifically, in-vitro fertilization.

You are making the claim. I’m asking you to back up your claim with hard data. Please do so.

 

[Cristian_B]

This has nothing to do with what I stated in my post. Here is a quote from an earlier post, posted under your username:

You stated that the Bible “gives us instructions of what to do in any scenario that could happen to us.” I have provided an example (in-vitro fertilization) of a scenario in which the Bible does not give any instructions.

What you have given me, here, is nothing from the Bible (that I can see), and some personal advice which I never requested. What I want to know is where the Bible “gives us instructions in what to do in any scenario” - specifically, in-vitro fertilization.

You are making the claim. I’m asking you to back up your claim with hard data. Please do so.

“Do everything in love” -This includes in-vitro fertilization. If it is done with love, then it is good. The Bible says “Thou shall not commit adultery” not “Thou shall not put your penis into another vagina except your wife’s” or “Thou shall not have other penises inside your vagina except your husband’s” or “Thous shall not try to create life with another person except your husband/wife”. It does not give detail because it is obvious. So it is with “Do everything in love”. This simple commandments of doing everything in love covers all aspects of life, including everything that is, was and will be.

 

[LittleSoldier]

You might notice that I don’t specifically address this thread towards Catholics. It has to do with the practise of praying to Mary, not naming a certain religion. That way, people of all religions who practise prayer to Mary can take part in it. It would be very surprising if 22 Protestants clicked on option 2 because Protestants typically don’t pray to Mary, I’ve clicked on the profiles of at least 6 of the voters in favour of option 2. All were Catholic.

For this thread, it’s only about the practise of prayer to Mary and it’s not a complaint.

Obviously I did notice. This is what I see you doing (in this and in prior threads): You make a statement about your wanting to learn about Catholicism and then you start posting comments about praying to Mary. You believe that prayers some Catholics use to pray to Mary are “over the top.” You point out why you believe this practice of praying to Mary is wrong.

If this isn’t a complaint I don’t know what is.

You state that you don’t name a certain religion (which is true), but then you mention that you checked the profiles of at least six of the forum member who clicked on Option #2 and they were all Catholic. I will accept that, except that I would operationally define those (whose profiles you checked) who clicked on Option #2 as “self-identified Catholics.” We don’t know if they are really Catholic - they may have just stated they were on their profiles. I know this is a small point, but it is really important to cover all options and possibilities when one is conducting research.

So you aren’t researching a specific religion,(although you have stated before that you want to learn about the Catholic Faith) but you bring up your point that six of the forum members who clicked on Option #2 identify themselves as Catholic (they are “self-identified Catholics” using my operational definition). You also state that “Protestants don’t typically pray to Mary.” There is a strong implication here that this poll (and this thread) is about Catholics who pray to Mary.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Continuation of Response to Fair Lady:

That’s fine. It’s pretty hard to find a category suited for every single person. But I’m quite satisfied that the majority who participated in the poll have indicated that the prayers posted are in line with their beliefs and/or practices.

I am aware that practises and beliefs vary among Catholics just as in any other religion, so am not surprised that there will be differing practises. Again, this isn’t all about Catholicism. One day, I’ll take the time to see what, if any, other people with different religious backgrounds took part and what their views are. I have heard that even among the popes there were differing degrees of devotion to Mary.

I did a bit of statistical analysis of your stated results of your poll. Let’s assume that every forum member who clicked on Option #2 is Catholic. (I am aware that the number of members that have responded to your poll has probably changed but this is the number I am aware of and will use.)

What I discovered is that the percentage of Catholics who clicked on Option #2 represents** .016 percent **of Catholics on CAF. (If anyone is interested in how I calculated this percentage, please PM me and I will be glad to share my procedure. I don’t want to write a long explanation here, except to state that I used CAF data on total forum members and then calculated how many of those members are Catholic.)

.016 percent. That is an extremely small percentage. Extremely small!! It doesn’t even come close to one percent or even 1/10 of one percent. I don’t understand how anyone can come to any valid conclusion about the practice of Catholics praying to Mary using the prayers you have provided when using the responses of **.016 percent **of the Catholics on CAF. Note: I only used the number of Catholics on CAF, not the number of Catholics in the USA or in Canada, or in North America, or in the entire world.

I have already listed possible confounding factors. Among these are:
(1) not everyone who identifies themself as a Catholic may really be Catholic;
(2) forum members may have voted more than once;
(3) forum members who identify themselves as Catholic may have clicked on Option #2 because someone else told them to do so;
(4) forum members may have clicked on Option #2 because they were limited by the options you provided and were attempting to click on an option which they felt was “closest” to what they actually believe.

These factors (as they confound the study) need to be taken into consideration. As you “love to research” I am fairly certain that you will agree that confounding factors are extremely important when it comes to reaching conclusions based upon data.

I am aware that practises and beliefs vary among Catholics just as in any other religion, so am not surprised that there will be differing practises. Again, this isn’t all about Catholicism. One day, I’ll take the time to see what, if any, other people with different religious backgrounds took part and what their views are. I have heard that even among the popes there were differing degrees of devotion to Mary.

If this isn’t about Catholicism, why did you choose a Catholic Forum?

Of course practices (and to a lesser extent beliefs) vary among Catholics. But I thought you wanted to learn about what the Catholic Church teaches. Don’t you want to know about official Church teaching? I am truly at a loss here. If you want to learn about Catholic Church teaching you can easily do so by using the links which have been provided (several times) in this thread. Have you checked out those links?

Are you really interested in what the Catholic Church teaches? I believe in your last thread you stated that your granddaughter is attending a Catholic high school and because of that you wanted to know more about the Catholic Faith. Was that true? I wonder because what I see is you taking one aspect of Catholicism (praying to Mary) and attempting to point out why you believe Catholics are wrong when they participate in this practice. The focus in this thread has changed a bit because now you are stating that it is the wording of the prayers to Mary that is wrong. Yet you have been shown the disclaimer provided by the webmaster of the website you took the prayers from. Even he/she states that he/she has not been appointed to represent the Catholic Church, his/her diocese, or his/her parish. These prayers are from the webmaster. They are his/her prayers, not the Catholic Church’s prayers.

As far as Popes are concerned, of course there are varying degrees of devotion to Mary. Popes aren’t robots - they don’t have some sort of chip containing devotion to Mary inserted when they become Popes!! Why wouldn’t there be varying degrees of devotion to Mary among Popes? What does that have to do with your saying that the wording of the prayers to Mary are “over the top?”

 

[LittleSoldier]

“Do everything in love” -This includes in-vitro fertilization. If it is done with love, then it is good. The Bible says “Thou shall not commit adultery” not “Thou shall not put your penis into another vagina except your wife’s” or “Thou shall not have other penises inside your vagina except your husband’s” or “Thous shall not try to create life with another person except your husband/wife”. It does not give detail because it is obvious. So it is with “Do everything in love”. This simple commandments of doing everything in love covers all aspects of life, including everything that is, was and will be.

Again, you have not answered my question. You stated that the Bible “gives us instructions of what to do in any scenario which happens to us.” I gave you an example of something that the Bible does not give us any instructions. I asked you to back up your claim.

Instead you loosely “interpret” the Bible by stating that “Do everything in love…covers all aspects of life, including everything that is, was and will be.” (emphasis mine)

So you are stating that absolutely everything that is done in love is OK. Why do we have the Bible? Why don’t we just have a little piece of paper which states “Do everything in love”? What is the rest of the Bible for? Is this it? Is this really your answer??

You further state that “It does not give detail because it is obvious.” The ethical considerations of in-vitro fertilization are obvious? C’mon now. That is absurd. In-vitro fertilization has been debated, discussed, and debated again. Books have been written on the ethical considerations. It is one of the most controversial issues in the 20th and 21st centuries and the controversy still rages. You make it sound so simple when it isn’t simple at all.

What if the mother wants it (in love) and the father doesn’t want it (in love)? What if the mother and father both want it (in love) but the physician wants it because he’s greedy? What if there are other children that want it done (in love) or not (in love)? What implications are there for society? What about the number of embryos that are formed when in-vitro fertilization is used? Should a woman really carry that large number of embryos, hoping that they will all be born alive and healthy or should she give up some of the embryos, knowing that possibly a smaller number gives those who remain a better chance at a healthy life?

What about the high financial costs of in-vitro fertilization? Should only those who are able to afford the procedure be the ones who can have it? What about genetic diseases or gender determination? Is it OK to kill the excess embryos? Is this abortion or not? Is it OK to kill the embryos who are carrying “bad” genes or are female when a male is wanted? What about the effects of a skewed male/female ratio on future generations?

I’m responding to you because I am finding it difficult to comprehend how you could come up with the answer you came up with. But this is so far off-topic that I’m not going to keep on with this. I shouldn’t have even responded to you to begin with.

If you want to discuss this further, please start a new thread. If you want to debate on this thread, please stick to the stated topic as provided in the OP.

 

[LittleSoldier]

So I will ask the question again, and this time please give me a method I can rely on:

Who decides if the prayer is in accordance with God’s will?

That is a very good question!!** Fair Lady, who decides if the prayer is in accordance with God’s will??**

 

[Zooey]

That is a very good question!!** Fair Lady, who decides if the prayer is in accordance with God’s will??**

Yes, indeed. And excellent question.
For which, I note, we are all still awaiting an answer…

 

[Fair_Lady]

Are you aware this is the method Mormons use to claim the Book of Mormon is the word of God?

What method? My information is that Joseph Smith claims that the Book of Mormon is a devine revelation from God. We know that to be false because it does not concur with scripture and I see the Book of Mormon as something that was added to scripture, which violates Revelation 22:18.

Here’s the problem: Just how do you know what you’re hearing is from God? What test do you employ to know–and know with utter certainty–that your answer is coming from God?

Is what I’m hearing in line with God’s word? If not, it is suspect or just plain dead wrong.

If what you are saying is true, why are there thousands of different Protestant denominations teaching opposing doctrines yet all claiming to abide by God’s will? Some Protestants claim it is God’s will that we baptize babies, but other Protestants claim baptizing babies is not God’s will. All of them claim to be going by the Bible and that they are in accordance with God’s will. How do we determine who is right? If the answer is “we just ask and He tells us” then why do Protestants continue to teach opposing doctrines?

Sometimes there are wrong teachings in the Protestant churches. All religions have that problem. How do we determine who is right? Go to the word of God.

And here’s another quandary: Let’s suppose you ask God if those prayers are okay, and you get the sense that He’s telling you they’re not. But let’s suppose I ask Him if those prayers are okay, and I get the sense that He’s telling me they are. We both–with all of our hearts–wish to abide by God’s will. How do we determine who is right?

Is there conflict with the word of God? If there is, we know with certainty that it is not God’s will.

Sorry, but I don’t need to read your website. If your method worked, we would see all Christians united in their doctrine. Since that is not the case, that method obviously does not work.

God’s word never changes. As humans, we don’t always do what is right. But that doesn’t negate God and His word.

So I will ask the question again, and this time please give me a method I can rely on:

Who decides if the prayer is in accordance with God’s will?

God decides. Get to know God and His word intimately and He will guide you and lead you in truth. Jesus said in John 10:27, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:”.
Also Psalm 119:104,105:
“Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way. Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path.”

 

[crazzeto]

What method? My information is that Joseph Smith claims that the Book of Mormon is a devine revelation from God. We know that to be false because it does not concur with scripture and I see the Book of Mormon as something that was added to scripture, which violates Revelation 22:18.

Huh, that’s interesting… What do you think about Luther removing 7 books from the bible? And how about him adding the world “only” to Romans 3:28? Or about the fact that the 7 books he did remove from the bible weren’t the only ones he wanted gone, he also wanted the book of James gone (he called it an Epistle of straw, this can be verified by his own writing) and in fact he wanted the Apocalypse of John (Revelation) Gone as well, and I do believe Hebrews among a few others from the NT.

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/wbible.htm

 

[Fair_Lady]

Continuation of Response to Fair Lady:
What I discovered is that the percentage of Catholics who clicked on Option #2 represents** .016 percent **of Catholics on CAF.

Much more than numbers, I am far more interested in knowing how people justifiy praying those prayers to Mary and as we have seen, they have been vehemently defended here. Something else I find very interesting is that like Protestants, not all people who identify themselves as Catholics hold to the same beliefs.

(1) not everyone who identifies themself as a Catholic may really be Catholic;

True.

(2) forum members may have voted more than once;

That’s easy to determine by clicking on and counting the names per vote. Some might have more than one moniker, but I’m much more interested in what is said about the practise of praying those prayers to Mary than shear numbers.

(3) forum members who identify themselves as Catholic may have clicked on Option #2 because someone else told them to do so;

True. If anyone here was under duress to click on option 2 and wants to declare that, feel free to do that.

(4) forum members may have clicked on Option #2 because they were limited by the options you provided and were attempting to click on an option which they felt was “closest” to what they actually believe.

That’s possible. However the vehement defense of those prayers is interesting to me and they take time and effort to put out.

These factors (as they confound the study) need to be taken into consideration. As you “love to research” I am fairly certain that you will agree that confounding factors are extremely important when it comes to reaching conclusions based upon data.

For pete’s sake, this is a forum, not something driven by scientific research!

If this isn’t about Catholicism, why did you choose a Catholic Forum?

It’s about the practise of praying to Mary and I happened to know that it is a common practise within the Catholic church. However I didn’t want to make it appear to be limited to Catholics. Any other religion was welcome to partake of the poll too.

Of course practices (and to a lesser extent beliefs) vary among Catholics. But I thought you wanted to learn about what the Catholic Church teaches. Don’t you want to know about official Church teaching? I am truly at a loss here. If you want to learn about Catholic Church teaching you can easily do so by using the links which have been provided (several times) in this thread. Have you checked out those links?

This is much more interesting, though I have done some reading in the catechism and I listen to Catholic Answer Live on Sirius radio. It is interesting to dialogue with people and find out how we all respond to what is taught in the church and from God’s word.

Sorry, I’ll have to attend to the rest of your post later.