Prayers to Mary

[LionHeart777]

If by my responding with the word of God, you call me a false teacher, then you are calling Jesus also a false teacher as I am repeating His words.

So you say, but He knows that I never intended such a thing.

 

[LionHeart777]

My apologies to Little Soldier as I thought you were a “he.” I should have been mindful of the fact that the Lord’s army is co-ed (as is the U.S. armed forces in case you are a service woman.)

 

[LittleSoldier]

This has been a difficult time for a lot of people on this thread. There’s been a lot of tension and some anger, whether justified or not, but I just found this on another thread and would like to post this link to something that those of us who love Mary will find beautiful and inspiring (I hope I’m allowed to do this ):

youtube.com/watch?v=SsTJU27a1uc

Enjoy!!

 

[LittleSoldier]

My apologies to Little Soldier as I thought you were a “he.” I should have been mindful of the fact that the Lord’s army is co-ed (as is the U.S. armed forces in case you are a service woman.)

Lol, no problem at all!! I am a pacifist. I am, indeed, probably the most humble soldier in God’s army (I keep falling off my horse).

 

[Cristian_B]

Would you please back up this (extremely strange to me) idea about angels? Are you saying that people who have died and are now in heaven are now angels?

Did I say that? Dead people are dust. They sleep in dust, if you wish to call it that way.

And what about people who aren’t Christian? Are you saying they can’t be saints? Because they most certainly can be saints. Jesus didn’t die just for the salvation of Christians - He died for the salvation of everyone.

Have you forgot that one can be reborn as a Christian? You, for example, have been reborn trough baptism with water and Spirit as a spiritual Jew; the Jews are God’s people and God’s people are saints, because God lives in them and sanctifies them. Yes, He died for everyone, but when you were born…were you a Christian? No, but when you died and got reborn you became a Christian. So He died for everyone, but not everyone will be saved, but only those who accept Him. To those who accept Him He gives them the privilege of becoming God’s sons, thus brothers and sisters with Him. I believe that Jesus’ family is holy, and if we enter in it by accepting Him, we will be holy as well. Those in His family are called Christians. Christians have been reborn in His family. So Christians are saints, because they have been sanctified by Him. When you are reborn you are born as a Christians, thus as a saint.

Now let us get back on topic.

 

[kepha1]

Did I say that? Dead people are dust. They sleep in dust, if you wish to call it that way.

Have you forgot that one can be reborn as a Christian? You, for example, have been reborn trough baptism with water and Spirit as a spiritual Jew; the Jews are God’s people and God’s people are saints, because God lives in them and sanctifies them. Yes, He died for everyone, but when you were born…were you a Christian? No, but when you died and got reborn you became a Christian. So He died for everyone, but not everyone will be saved, but only those who accept Him. To those who accept Him He gives them the privilege of becoming God’s sons, thus brothers and sisters with Him. I believe that Jesus’ family is holy, and if we enter in it by accepting Him, we will be holy as well. Those in His family are called Christians. Christians have been reborn in His family. So Christians are saints, because they have been sanctified by Him. When you are reborn you are born as a Christians, thus as a saint.

Now let us get back on topic.

You are on topic. The family of God is not a broken home. The family of God in heaven is not a separate family from the family of God on earth. God does not have a distinct love for those in heaven with those on earth. Does being deaf, dumb and blind to the affairs of the earth sound much like an eternal reward?

 

[kepha1]

"…within Christianity, the self has undergone radical change in its definition and the cultural understanding of what it means to be a person…a radical change took place at the time of the Reformation and the early Enlightenment. The arguments of the time succeeded in redefining what it meant to be a person – particularly a person in relation to God. At stake was the theological effort to undermine the traditional claims and teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, many of which were simply the common inheritance of both Orthodoxy and Catholicism, the understanding and teaching of the early Church.

"If the church is the locus and vehicle of the sacred, then we are brought closer to God by the very fact of belonging and participating in its sacramental life. Grace can come to us mediately through the church, and we can mediate grace to each other, as the lives of the saints enrich the common life on which we all draw. Once the sacred is rejected, then this kind of mediation is also. Each person stands alone in relation to God: his or her fate – salvation or damnation – is separately decided."

"I am a passenger in the ecclesial ship on its journey to God. But for Protestantism, there can be no passengers. This is because there is no ship in the Catholic sense, no common movement carrying humans to salvation. Each believer rows his or her own boat."

However, the modern conception of autonomous man is a concept not shared by Scripture. It does not undergird the thought of St. Paul or St. John, indeed it undermines both if it is wrongly brought into the realm of Scriptural interpretation. Its application in Christian doctrine has tended to shift the emphasis in modern Christian teaching away from a sacramental (participatory) understanding and towards a form of volunteerism where the decision of an individual for Christ is the sole defining characteristic of salvation.

In the classical Christian understanding of what it means to be human – we do not exist alone – but as participants in a common nature – and though our fall from grace has left us damaged – so that we generally experience ourselves as autonomous individuals – this is not our proper end – salvation restores us to a place of proper communion with God and with other persons. There is an extension, an enlargement of the self, such that our life can no longer be defined simply by reference to the self, but must be seen as it exists in communion with God and others. Thus love becomes the defining act of our existence.

In no place does this participatory understanding of human existence play a greater role than in the life of the Church – both the Church that we see – and the Church that we do not see – the saints who surround us and pray unceasingly before the throne of God.
It is this proper understanding of human salvation that is safeguarded in the Church’s teaching of the communion and intercession of the saints. And it is the self understood in its modern, autonomous form that makes the doctrine of the intercession of the saints seem so foreign to many modern believers. Saints for them simply get in an individual’s way when he seeks to relate to God.

But if the human person and his salvation are understood in a proper participatory sense – nothing could be more normal than the intercession of the saints. It is simply a description of what it means to actually share a common life – the life of God. How can those who share in the common life of God not care for and pray for one another? How can they not solicit each other’s concern? Far from distracting from God – it draws us towards a right understanding of God – who is the Lord of Hosts
– not the God of the autonomous individual.

Why the Intercession of the Saints is a Dogma
%between%

 

[JustaServant]

There is no reference in the Bible that the dead are to pray for us.

Really?

1 Timothy 2:1-4 “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”

There is nothing in Scripture that would indicate that not even death can separate us from Christ:

Rom. 8:38-39 “Neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord"

Is not the Church the Body of Christ?

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Mt 18:10 "See that you do not despise one of these little ones;** for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven**.

Lu 15:7 I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents (how did they know the sinner repented?) than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

Tobit 12:14 So now God sent me to heal you and your daughter-in-law Sarah. 15 I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints and enter into the presence of the glory of the Holy One."

2Maccabees 15: 11 He (Judas Maccabee) armed each of them not so much with confidence in shields and spears as with the inspiration of brave words, and he cheered them all by relating a dream, a sort of vision, which was worthy of belief. 12 What he saw was this: Onias, who had been high priest, a noble and good man, of modest bearing and gentle manner, one who spoke fittingly and had been trained from childhood in all that belongs to excellence, was praying with outstretched hands for the whole body of the Jews. 13 Then likewise a man appeared, distinguished by his gray hair and dignity, and of marvelous majesty and authority. 14 And Onias spoke, saying, “This is a man who loves the brethren and prays much for the people and the holy city, Jeremiah, the prophet of God.” 15 Jeremiah stretched out his right hand and gave to Judas a golden sword, and as he gave it he addressed him thus: 16 “Take this holy sword, a gift from God, with which you will strike down your adversaries.”

Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; 4 and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.

 

[JustaServant]

Tradition / Church Fathers
I. Intercessory Power and Veneration of the Saints

“[T]hat it is neither possible for us ever to forsake Christ, who suffered for the salvation of such as shall be saved throughout the whole world (the blameless one for sinners), nor to worship any other. For Him indeed, as being the Son of God, we adore; but the martyrs, as disciples and followers of the Lord, we worthily love on account of their extraordinary affection towards their own King and Master, of whom may we also be made companions and fellow disciples! The centurion then, seeing the strife excited by the Jews, placed the body in the midst of the fire, and consumed it. Accordingly, we afterwards took up his bones, as being more precious than the most exquisite jewels, and more purified than gold, and deposited them in a fitting place, whither, being gathered together, as opportunity is allowed us, with joy and rejoicing, the Lord shall grant us to celebrate the anniversary of his martyrdom, both in memory of those who have already finished their course, and for the exercising and preparation of those yet to walk in their steps.” Martyrdom of Polycarp 17,18 (A.D. 157).

“[Appealing to the three companions of Daniel] Think of me, I beseech you, so that I may achieve with you the same fate of martyrdom.” Hippolytus of Rome, On Daniel, 11:30 (A.D. 204).

“As often as the anniversary comes round, we make offerings for the dead as birthday honours.” Tertullian, The Crown, 3 (A.D. 211).

But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels… as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep (On Prayer II [A.D. 233]).

Pectorius:
Aschandius, my father, dearly beloved of my heart, with my sweet mother and my brethren, remember your Pectorius in the peace of the Fish [Christ] (Epitaph [A.D. 250]).

“Nor is that kind of title to glories in the case of Celerinus, our beloved, an unfamiliar and novel thing. He is advancing in the footsteps of his kindred; he rivals his parents and relations in equal honours of divine condescension. His grandmother, Celerina, was some time since crowned with martyrdom. Moreover, his paternal and maternal uncles, Laurentius and Egnatius, who themselves also were once warring in the camps of the world, but were true and spiritual soldiers of God, casting down the devil by the confession of Christ, merited palms and crowns from the Lord by their illustrious passion. We always offer sacrifices for them, as you remember, as often as we celebrate the passions and days of the martyrs in the annual commemoration. Nor could he, therefore, be degenerate and inferior whom this family dignity and a generous nobility provoked, by domestic examples of virtue and faith. But if in a worldly family it is a matter of heraldry and of praise to be a patrician, of bow much greater praise and honour is it to become of noble rank in the celestial heraldry! I cannot tell whom I should call more blessed,–whether those ancestors, for a posterity so illustrious, or him, for an origin so glorious. So equally between them does the divine condescension flow, and pass to and fro, that, just as the dignity of their offspring brightens their crown, so the sublimity of his ancestry illuminates his glory.” Cyprian, To Clergy and People, Epistle 33(39):3 (A.D. 250).

“I am also of opinion that there were many persons of the same name with John the apostle, who by their love for him, and their admiration and emulation of him, and their desire to be loved by the Lord as he was loved, were induced to embrace also the same designation, just as we find many of the children of the faithful called by the names of Paul and Peter.” Dionysius of Alexandria, Books of Promises, 5 (A.D. 257).

“Then we commemorate also those who have fallen asleep before us, first Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, that at their prayers and intercessions God would receive our petition. Then on behalf also of the Holy Fathers and Bishops who have fallen asleep before us, and in a word of all who in past years have fallen asleep among us, believing that it will be a very great benefit to the souls, for whom the supplication is put up, while that holy and most awful sacrifice is set forth.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 23:9 (A.D. 350).

 

[crazzeto]

Those whom you speak about (those who are in heaven in the presence of God) are called ‘angels’, in case you forgot. The Bible calls all Christians saints, because they have been sanctified by the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus.

Incorrect, an Angel is any being delivering a message from God to humanity. An angel can either be a purely spiritual being, such as St. Michael, an angel could even be a living human being, like the prophits of old. Angels are messangers from God, nothing more.

 

[Cristian_B]

Incorrect, an Angel is any being delivering a message from God to humanity. An angel can either be a purely spiritual being, such as St. Michael, an angel could even be a living human being, like the prophits of old. Angels are messangers from God, nothing more.

My point was that angels are in the presence of God. I never said anything else.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Did I say that? Dead people are dust. They sleep in dust, if you wish to call it that way.

In Post 150 you stated:

dead = asleep

and:

Several times, the apostles, people in the Bible and even Jesus calls the dead asleep. So dead means asleep.

and:

So those who went down into the grave do not praise the Lord. Only the living, the ones that are not asleep, only the living can praise God.

When you pray, you, consciously or unconsciously, give glory to the Lord. When you pray, you say loudly that God can hear you, and since you obviously are not alone in this world, and others are praying as well, that He hears all prayers. By praying to Him you acknowledge that He is all powerful. So praying is giving glory, thus praising Jesus our Lord and the Spirit and the Father.** But the dead, or asleep, do not give glory tot he Lord. They are silenced. They are sleeping. They are unconscious and are waiting for the day of the resurrection.**
and:

So the dead are resting; they have fallen asleep waiting for resurrection.

and:

This is quite direct. If he “will be no more”, we understand that he will be dead, that he lies in the dust.

So, if he will be no more, how can he be in Heaven/Hell?
and:

Of course, we will resurrect at the end of times, and we will have a new heaven and earth. So while this heaven and earth are still here, nobody is going anywhere. While this sky and this earth is here, nobody is resurrecting to get eternal life.

and:

I am sure that there are more in the Bible, but these are more than enough to realize that we are sleeping, and that there will be no immediate judgment from our point of view. Actually, for the dead, or asleep

, time has no importance. Time does not affect them. Either if they died 2,000 years ago, or a day before the ending of times, it will be the same for them. Their last breath is on earth, and the new one would be at the judgment or in the new earth. But it will only take a breath (breath being the time between breathing). A second, if you wish to call it that way. So the dead are asleep waiting for the resurrection.

[bolding mine]

If this is true, what about the following:

“And after six days, Jesus taketh with him Peter and James and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves, and was transfigured before them. And his garments became shining and exceeding white as snow, so as no fuller upon earth can make white. And there appeared to them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.”

[Mark 9:1-3, Douay-Rheims Bible] [bolding mine]

Can dust speak? Were Elias and Moses speaking with Jesus in their sleep??

I know this could lead to going off-topic, but I think it’s important to note that we do not believe we are “dead” or “asleep” or “dust” when we pass from this earth, even though our physical bodies may be; rather, we are alive, and whether we are in Purgatory or in heaven we are still part of the Communion of Saints. :grouphug:

The saints are alive and Mary is alive. Mary hears our prayers and answers them. This I am sure of.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Really?

There is nothing in Scripture that would indicate that not even death can separate us from Christ:

Is not the Church the Body of Christ?

That’s why I brought up Luke 15:7 before - I wanted mdifrancesco to understand that those in heaven are alive in God; why would they be rejoicing if they didn’t even know what was going on??

I guess it wasn’t clear enough.

In another thread he stated that he is leaving the forum…

 

[MariaG]

Hi

I have been missing awhile and finally got caught up. In it all, I did not see an answer to FL, so forgive me for backtracking a bit.

Understanding and context are everything.

There’s good reason for that. Take, for instance, what is being said to Mary. Here are some snippets of the prayers I posted in the opener:

“Obtain for them and for us the pardon of so many sins.”

If you understand Catholic teaching, then you understand the context of this quote.

Mary’s will is perfect with God’s will. She will never do anything that is not pleasing to Him.

Catholics do not worship Mary or think she has any “special powers” in and of herself. We DO however believe God chooses to work through His Saints, in heaven and on Earth.

So if someone is asking Mary to obtain for them and for us pardon of so many sins, we know HOW she will do this, by praying to God for us.

The only way this is different from asking saints on earth to pray for us is that we know through Christ we are united and we don’t NEED a phone to get through. God allows the saints in heaven to hear us.

“To thank thee for keeping me safe this day,
To ask thee this night to keep evil away. “

How did Mary keep them safe? Through prayer to God.

How will she keep evil away? Through prayer to God.

This is the whole prayer. We KNOW how these things will come about. Through Mary’s perfect conformation to God’s will, which would be through prayer and petition to Her Son.

Another important issue. When used in a context as you indicate, we are speaking to someone who is still with us in body, mind and spirit. We have acces to them, whether we are with each other in person. We can use the telephone, email, snail mail, face book, etc. to communicate with them. However, when a person has passed on to glory, we don’t have those means to communicate with them. They are alive in spirit, but we do not communicate with spirits and we are forbidden to communicate with spirits.
“Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.” (Leviticus 19:31)

“And the person who turns after mediums and familiar spirits, to prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person and cut him off from his people.” (Leviticus 20:6)

Again, we talking about devotion to spirits. The fact that the Catholic Church allows or promotes any kind of devotion to any spirit outside of God is disturbingly wrong.

They are alive in spirit, and I stand by what I said earlier in this regard. We are not to comunicate with spirits.

.

Yet Christ Himself had Moses and Elijah appear to the apostles in Matthew 17:3. Clearly, there is an element of understanding missing to your interpretation when Christ himself established contact “with the dead”, in the presence of His apostles.

There is a very obvious difference in holding a senace to have a spirit speak through you to gain knowledge and a daughter asking her grandmother to pray for them to the Lord, Our God.

No knowledge of the future being sought, just prayers to God being asked for.

It becomes even more obvious when one looks at the non-inspired writings of the early Church that the early Church clearly understood what “communion of the Saints” really was. ( Link if anyone is interested in reading)

As demonstrated with the snippets from prayers in the opeing post, much much more is being asked of Mary than to pray fo another part of the body of Christ. She is being asked for help, protection, obtaining pardons, praised for protection, told that her “powerful name” is the salvation of the dying, etc, etc. This is serious! God alone is the One of whom those things should be directed to.

And as I demonstrated, there is NOT much more being asked of Mary, not if one understands FIRST that Mary’s will is always in perfect union with God’s.

It is only when you divorce the teachings of the Church about Mary that anything in those prayers seems scandolous. Mary is not being asked to do anything that does not perfectly conform to His will, prayer and petition are always within God’s will.

Once again, I ask each one here to examine your hearts. What is it that drives you to Mary or other saints who have passed on before us? In heaven, God alone is absolutely sufficient to meet our needs for salvation and every other imaginable need we can possibly have

And once again, I will ask you to examine the possibility that you may completely misunderstand those prayers since you clearly do not understand the teachings of the Catholic Church in regards to Mary.

What drives us to “communion of the Saints”? Christ. Just as we know that when 2 or three gather in His name, we know that we can “gather” with his saints even alone in our rooms.

God IS absolutely sufficient to meet our needs and we know this to be true which is why we ask the saints in heaven to unite their prayers with ours seeking Him!!!

 

[crazzeto]

My point was that angels are in the presence of God. I never said anything else.

You’re incorrect, an Angel is a messagner from god nothing more or less. We know the term mainly from the OT, because the primary messangers from Gods were purely spiritual beings who served this office. Moses, for instance could be said to be an Angel as well. He received messages from God, and delivered them to Gods people. He most certainly, wasn’t always in the presense of God when he was doing this.

 

[Cristian_B]

You’re incorrect, an Angel is a messagner from god nothing more or less. We know the term mainly from the OT, because the primary messangers from Gods were purely spiritual beings who served this office. Moses, for instance could be said to be an Angel as well. He received messages from God, and delivered them to Gods people. He most certainly, wasn’t always in the presense of God when he was doing this.

You are incorrect. If humans carry His word (His message) they are called prophets, not angels. The angels are the beings in Heaven that sometimes carry messages from God to humanity and they do many other things, like protecting or destroying, etc. Moses was a prophet; Michael was an angel (or archangel, as you want to call him). Jesus above all was a kind of prophet, because He was human and carried God’s message to His people, and God because… He was God. But above anything else, He was a prophet, because He was human and carried God’s message. So if humans work as messenger for God, they are called prophets, and the spiritual beings that carry God’s message are called angels. Angels are in God’s presence; humans are not.

 

[LittleSoldier]

You are incorrect. If humans carry His word (His message) they are called prophets, not angels. The angels are the beings in Heaven that sometimes carry messages from God to humanity and they do many other things, like protecting or destroying, etc. Moses was a prophet; Michael was an angel (or archangel, as you want to call him). Jesus above all was a kind of prophet, because He was human and carried God’s message to His people, and God because… He was God. But above anything else, He was a prophet, because He was human and carried God’s message. So if humans work as messenger for God, they are called prophets, and the spiritual beings that carry God’s message are called angels. Angels are in God’s presence; humans are not.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God??

 

[Cristian_B]

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God??

Yes. But being God’s Son does not mean that He couldn’t have been a prophet. He, besides the task of saving the world, He also had to give us God’s message, but since He was in flesh, He could be called a prophet. Jesus is many things: Creator, our Brother, our Savior, etc. and He was also a prophet. Moses said: “Another prophet like me will raise” (or something like that) and “listen to Him”. Obviously, he was talking about Jesus. One of the many tasks Jesus had was being a prophet, which is a born man who gives us God’s unaltered Word. Therefore, Jesus is God, is the Lord, is the Creator, is a brother, is a friend, is our savior and not lastly He is a prophet, because He was born as a man and gave us the Father’s message.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Yes. But being God’s Son does not mean that He couldn’t have been a prophet. He, besides the task of saving the world, He also had to give us God’s message, but since He was in flesh, He could be called a prophet. Jesus is many things: Creator, our Brother, our Savior, etc. and He was also a prophet. Moses said: “Another prophet like me will raise” (or something like that) and “listen to Him”. Obviously, he was talking about Jesus. One of the many tasks Jesus had was being a prophet, which is a born man who gives us God’s unaltered Word. Therefore, Jesus is God, is the Lord, is the Creator, is a brother, is a friend, is our savior and not lastly He is a prophet, because He was born as a man and gave us the Father’s message.

Thank you. I agree that Jesus is a prophet and God. I was confused by your last post and I know that some people believe that Jesus was only a prophet and not God, so I wanted to be sure. It would be difficult to discuss praying to Mary with someone who doesn’t believe that Jesus is God.

One question though: Couldn’t Moses have been referring to John the Baptist?? I haven’t checked the scripture passage and I’m not familiar with it, so I honestly don’t know.

At any rate, Jesus definitely came to earth to proclaim God’s word, (among other things) and who better to proclaim God’s word than God Himself?? [this is a rhetorial question just in case anyone decides to answer it… ]

I know I’m taking the thread off-topic. It’s difficult to keep it on-topic (as you well know), so I will only ask one more question (which I believe you have already answered but I don’t want to assume that because I think you believe something that you actually do believe it): Do you believe that Jesus is 100 percent human and 100 percent God?

 

[Cristian_B]

Thank you. I agree that Jesus is a prophet and God. I was confused by your last post and I know that some people believe that Jesus was only a prophet and not God, so I wanted to be sure. It would be difficult to discuss praying to Mary with someone who doesn’t believe that Jesus is God.

One question though: Couldn’t Moses have been referring to John the Baptist?? I haven’t checked the scripture passage and I’m not familiar with it, so I honestly don’t know.

At any rate, Jesus definitely came to earth to proclaim God’s word, (among other things) and who better to proclaim God’s word than God Himself?? [this is a rhetorial question just in case anyone decides to answer it… ]

The passage can be found in Deuteronomy 18:

[bibledrb]Deuteronomy 18:15-22[/bibledrb]

Of course, I believe that this passage means that He will rise many prophets. I believe that Moses was talking about Jesus, but also about Elijah, John he Baptist and all the other prophets. I prefer to believe that Jesus is somehow included in those ‘prophets’ because part of Him was a prophet. But obviously, Jesus was not the only prophet, so Moses spoke about all the other prophets that came after him.

I know I’m taking the thread off-topic. It’s difficult to keep it on-topic (as you well know), so I will only ask one more question (which I believe you have already answered but I don’t want to assume that because I think you believe something that you actually do believe it): Do you believe that Jesus is 100 percent human and 100 percent God?

I, personally, when I pray and I say “God” I refer to The Father and when I say “Lord” I refer to Jesus. They are synonymous, but this is a personal preference. If you mean that He is 100% the Father, according to my own ‘preference’, then I disagree, but if you mean that He is part of the Godhead therefore He is God, then yes, I believe that He is 100% God (even though He is 33.33% of the Godhead). If by God you mean that He is part of the Godhead, meaning that He is God, then yes, He is fully God. But, actually if you think it better it is incorrect to say that He is 100% God, since He is part of the Trinity, therefore He is 33.33% God, meaning that He is 1/3 of the Godhead. Anyway, I understand your question. My answer is yes, I believe Jesus is God our Lord (God) and our Brother (human) as well.