Prayers to saints?

[Jennifer132]

This is related to another thread on Mary I just posted, but I felt this deserved its’ own thread. Here’s my question: I have seen the argument made that Catholics pray to saints asking for intercession on their behalf to God, just as you might ask a friend on earth to pray for you. So I’m wondering, when you pray to the saints, do you only as that they present your request to God/Jesus, or do you actually ask them to grant your request? Does the difference in language matter?

Example–

Dear Mary, please heal my brother’s illness. vs. Dear Mary, please ask Jesus to heal my brother’s illness.

In one we are assuming Jesus is going to answer the request through Mary’s intercession and in the other we are assuming Mary has the power and authority to heal/grant a specific request in her own right.

 

[Della]

This is related to another thread on Mary I just posted, but I felt this deserved its’ own thread. Here’s my question: I have seen the argument made that Catholics pray to saints asking for intercession on their behalf to God, just as you might ask a friend on earth to pray for you. So I’m wondering, when you pray to the saints, do you only as that they present your request to God/Jesus, or do you actually ask them to grant your request? Does the difference in language matter?

Example–

Dear Mary, please heal my brother’s illness. vs. Dear Mary, please ask Jesus to heal my brother’s illness.

In one we are assuming Jesus is going to answer the request through Mary’s intercession and in the other we are assuming Mary has the power and authority to heal/grant a specific request in her own right.

No one who prays for another’s healing on earth does it through their own “right”, so why would we think that changes for the saints who are in heaven? How do people pray here on earth for healing if not through Christ and by the power of the Holy Spirit? It’s the same with the saints in heaven. All they do is in Christ’s name, aligned perfectly with his will, and through the power of the Holy Spirit. It is God who heals in both cases, not the person whom God uses as a channel of his grace.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Jennifer,
Just a little aside here about praying to saints or anyone else for that matter. Get to know them. Just as getting to know Jesus will bear fruit, so will getting to know anyone who has devotion to God. Meditate on their life before you pray for their intersession.

Some are not yet saints, but become saints because people pray for their intercession.
A good example is Blessed Chiara Badano who died at 19 years old in 1990.

 

[cstheriot]

This is related to another thread on Mary I just posted, but I felt this deserved its’ own thread. Here’s my question: I have seen the argument made that Catholics pray to saints asking for intercession on their behalf to God, just as you might ask a friend on earth to pray for you. So I’m wondering, when you pray to the saints, do you only as that they present your request to God/Jesus, or do you actually ask them to grant your request? Does the difference in language matter?

Example–

Dear Mary, please heal my brother’s illness. vs. Dear Mary, please ask Jesus to heal my brother’s illness.

In one we are assuming Jesus is going to answer the request through Mary’s intercession and in the other we are assuming Mary has the power and authority to heal/grant a specific request in her own right.

In my opinion, it doesn’t matter how we word it. We know that “pray” is another word for ask. For example, “I pray you, please grab me the salt.” So, when we pray to the saints, or Mary, we know that we are praying for their intercession. I don’t think it matter how we word it. For example, St. Anthony is the patron of Lost things. When I lose something, I often ask him to help me find it. By asking his help, I know I am asking for his intercession, because the way that he helps is by interceding for me. So, if I say “St. Anthony, please help me find my car”, his way of helping, is by interceding. I don’t have to specifically ask him. (This is just my opinion, someone else may have a better theological answer)

 

[Mintaka]

There’s one major difference between asking your Christian brothers and sisters on earth to pray for you, and asking your brothers and sisters in heaven to pray for you.

Your brothers and sisters on earth might be willing to pray for bad things in a bad way (even if their intentions are good), but the saints in heaven know better. They are totally one with Christ, and pray only prayers that will please Him.

Moving along…

The difference between asking a saint to pray for you, or a saint to help you, is basically a difference of formality only. The saints in heaven are perfectly one with Christ, perfect members of His Body. They don’t want anything that God doesn’t want. They don’t know anything that God doesn’t give them to know. They don’t do anything that God doesn’t do through them. Every Catholic knows this.

So yeah, if you’re drowning, and you want to take the time to call out to the lifeguard formally, “Sir, please invoke the powers of the arms and legs that God gave you, and the intelligence that God gave you, and the lungs that God gave you, and come out here and help me with this little drowning problem I’m having,” I suppose that you can be happy with your total Christian correctness in not attributing any power to mere humans and giving all the glory to God.

But sure, most of us are just going to scream, “I’m drowning! Help!” and worry about the formality later. For all practical purposes, we take God’s responsibility for creating and maintaining us in life as a given, and we address each other as if we have our own arms and legs and brains and training.

So in a non-formal situation of prayer that doesn’t come out of a missal or official prayerbook, are we going to be instinctively addressing God more, or humans who serve God more?

Well, of course I don’t know what’s going to come out of your mouth or mine, or Uncle Josie’s. Do I care?

If we’re drowning, then attracting help is the primary idea. We figure that the help can worry about the proportions and the proper theology, and take it as intended. If you see someone desperate praying desperately, the proper thing is to pray for that person and their intentions, just like the proper thing when you see someone drowning is to go help. You are not supposed to sit there like the Russian judge at a synchronized swimming competition, making notes on whether the person is drowning elegantly enough.

Similarly, there have been studies that have shown that a lot of dying people scream for their moms as well as for God. Are these people idolaters of their mothers, bowing down and worshipping the Supreme Feminine Principle as embodied in their divine progenitor deitesses? Or are they just yelling for help to all the ones they love?

Not everybody I love, and who loves and prays for me, is running around on Earth. And since one of those Persons is Jesus Christ, Who died and rose specifically in order to make those people live forever, it would be a bit insulting to Him to ignore the continued existence of the rest of them. If they are indeed my living family in faith, and His, then I will talk to them and ask them for help. And if I’m not asking for something He wouldn’t like, they will help me with their prayers; and so He wills it.

'Nuff said.

 

[MT1926]

This is related to another thread on Mary I just posted, but I felt this deserved its’ own thread. Here’s my question: I have seen the argument made that Catholics pray to saints asking for intercession on their behalf to God, just as you might ask a friend on earth to pray for you. So I’m wondering, when you pray to the saints, do you only as that they present your request to God/Jesus, or do you actually ask them to grant your request? Does the difference in language matter?

Example–

Dear Mary, please heal my brother’s illness. vs. Dear Mary, please ask Jesus to heal my brother’s illness.

In one we are assuming Jesus is going to answer the request through Mary’s intercession and in the other we are assuming Mary has the power and authority to heal/grant a specific request in her own right.

I would say either pray is sufficient. As another poster mentioned to pray means to ask. Now we Catholics know that any prayer we make to Mary or the Saints is asking for them to intercede on our behalf. Therefor even in the first example when we prey…“Dear Mary, please heal my brother’s illness.” We have confidence that she has the power and authority to go directly to Jesus with our request, no matter how badly we word it.

Jesus just wants us to pray, he will not judge us on how we word the prayer or if we forget to dot an i or cross a t. He knows what is in our heart before we ask it. Which is really the best part. When we pray to Mary or the Saints Jesus hears that prayer and then when they intercede on our behalf he hears it again. It’s like double dipping.