Prayers to the saints;not dead yet?

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This is kindof a weird idea, but I was thinking about how God is outside of time. I was wondering could a person who has died, say Padre Pio, pray for and help someone like Martin Luther to come back to the church. My question is, when you pray to the saints, like in the Confiteor(“and all the angels and saints”), are you praying to saints that have not died yet, or even been born yet? Could you even be praying to yourself?:whacky:
 
If Padre Pio prayed for Martin Luther who in time came back to the Catholic Church, this would change history. Now we’re messing with the space-time continuum.
 
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moira:
If Padre Pio prayed for Martin Luther who in time came back to the Catholic Church, this would change history. Now we’re messing with the space-time continuum.
Click to expand...
:whacky: :whacky: :whacky:
 
If Padre Pio prayed for Martin Luther who in time came back to the Catholic Church, this would change history. Now we’re messing with the space-time continuum.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. History is the result of all present and future prayers and acts of God. We don’t know what was in Martin Luther’s heart as he died, and while we know that he never publically changed his position, it seems to be a violation of Hope to think that he never could have changed what he held in his heart as he died. It is that moment that we can pray for with hope of God’s grace and mercy.
 
Could you be praying to yourself since God is outside of time?:whacky:
 
Obviously you can never know for sure whether you’re praying to yourself-- that would be presumption (since you can’t pray to someone who’s not going to go to heaven).

But other than that, I don’t see why it would be wrong to think of yourself as praying to all current and (from our POV) future saints-- because to God they’re all current!
 
patricius said:
(since you can’t pray to someone who’s not going to go to heaven).
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How do you know? Just curious because I’ve been wondering about this quite a bit.
 
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moira:
If Padre Pio prayed for Martin Luther who in time came back to the Catholic Church, this would change history. Now we’re messing with the space-time continuum.
Click to expand...
I’m sure we’ve all watched enough Star Trek to know that’s not a good idea. 😉

Paul
 
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jimmy:
This is kindof a weird idea, but I was thinking about how God is outside of time. I was wondering could a person who has died, say Padre Pio, pray for and help someone like Martin Luther to come back to the church. My question is, when you pray to the saints, like in the Confiteor(“and all the angels and saints”), are you praying to saints that have not died yet, or even been born yet? Could you even be praying to yourself?:whacky:
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I think this could happen. Consider how we know that the saints know what is going on here on Earth. The classic examples are the martyrs in Revelation 6:10:
They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” Also convincing is the appearance of Moses and Elijiah in the transfiguration. Clearly the martyrs in Revelation and the two great prophets were/will be aware of what is going on in what we call “now” on Earth.

Though the saints are aware of what time is “now” they do not possesses “nowness”, I would assert, since they are now (pun certainly intended) unstuck from time with God. Therefore, properly speaking, I think because they are not in time they could have interceded for Luther, however, I do not think we could say they are doing so “now”. Likewise, then, I believe you could be interceding for yourself. Practically speaking though, I don’t see what good it would do to ask for your own intercession 😛 .
 
Thanks everyone for the responses.

quintessential5, I see your point. It doesn’t seem like it would much use to intercede for yourself if you are already in Heaven, but if you did intercede for your self you would be attaining grace for yourself from God, which may help you to get to Heaven so that you could intercede. If you did not intercede you may not recieve that grace and it would be tougher to get to Heaven.😃

patricus, I agree, you can’t pray to someone who is not in Heaven so it would be presuptuous, if you make a prayer addressing yourself. Like if I composed a prayer to saint Jimmy:D , that would be presuptuous. But it would not be if you assume that you are praying to all future saints and that could include yourself.

moira, My reference to Padre and Martin Luther was with the thought that maybe he could help him to relize his error and have a change of heart before death, not necisarily a reconciliation with the church.
 
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