Prayers to the Saints

[MeekandHumble]

Of course you can. The good thief was rewarded with Paradise on Good Friday. He will be rewarded when Jesus comes at the Last Judgement. Ditto for the poor beggar, Lazarus.

So your answer to a Protestant who asks you, “Do you believe that if you were to die right now, you will go straight to heaven?”, would be ???

Still waiting for your reply on Soul-Sleep, cheers.

Have you read Ecclesiastes 9? For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

You can’t honestly think that you can receive a reward twice after reading this verse. If people are in Heaven, why does this verse say that the dead know not anything?

 

[Vile_Servant]

Provide scripture and explain how a person can receive a reward twice.

Already replied in my previous post.

Also, why in Acts 2, David is still buried and have not received a reward, but the thief and Lazarus have? According to your logic, the Bible is contradicting itself.

Whatever rewards certain souls receive after death was made known by Jesus in the Gospel, for the edification of the faithful. That is why Jesus clearly stated the rewards for the good thief and Lazarus. I believe David’s soul has already been judged by God and rewarded accordingly. What do you believe happened to David’s soul?

What is soul sleep?

Soul sleep is a term for the belief in mortality of the soul: that the soul dies and the dead sleep unconsciously between the death of the body and the resurrection on Judgment Day.

Do you believe this?

 

[raumzeitmc2]

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Both cities were burned with eternal fire. Are they still burning today? No. Eternal, everlasting, for ever…simply means, until something is completely burned up.

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:44

 

[MeekandHumble]

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:44

Now explain what it means in comparison with the other verses. You are saying that you are right and I’m wrong, but what you don’t realize is that you are contradicting yourself. You can’t pick and choose verses without explaining the others.

 

[Vile_Servant]

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Both cities were burned with eternal fire. Are they still burning today? No. Eternal, everlasting, for ever…simply means, until something is completely burned up.

The cities may have gone, but the souls of the sinners, which are immortal, burn for all eternity in the everlasting fire of hell.

In any case, this has gone WAY off topic.

MeekandHumble, I invite you to start a new thread to continue our discussion about the four last things. cheers!

 

[raumzeitmc2]

If people are in Heaven, why does this verse say that the dead know not anything?

I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. Luke 15:7

How can there be rejoicing in heaven if no one’s there, or if they’re all asleep?

 

[raumzeitmc2]

Now explain what it means in comparison with the other verses. You are saying that you are right and I’m wrong, but what you don’t realize is that you are contradicting yourself. You can’t pick and choose verses without explaining the others.

Got a better idea: First, you tell us if anyone besides yourself has a right to interpret Scripture?

 

[MeekandHumble]

Already replied in my previous post.

Whatever rewards certain souls receive after death was made known by Jesus in the Gospel, for the edification of the faithful. That is why Jesus clearly stated the rewards for the good thief and Lazarus. I believe David’s soul has already been judged by God and rewarded accordingly. What do you believe happened to David’s soul?

Soul sleep is a term for the belief in mortality of the soul: that the soul dies and the dead sleep unconsciously between the death of the body and the resurrection on Judgment Day.

Do you believe this?

If I answer you question about the soul, then that will lead to another discussion, one which I do not have time for at the moment.

Why is there a lack of scripture in your post. You can’t say of course they can and be in opposition with scripture. Please provide scripture. I have done so. If you say David has been judged, then is he in Heaven or “hell”,according to your logic. If a person has received their reward, then where is David? Because according to Acts 2, he is still buried. You have to clear this up.

 

[MeekandHumble]

Got a better idea: First, you tell us if anyone besides yourself has a right to interpret Scripture?

I will not go down this road. The Holy Spirit guides us and gives us understanding. Now let’s go back to scripture.

 

[Vile_Servant]

If I answer you question about the soul, then that will lead to another discussion, one which I do not have time for at the moment.

Never mind, I have started a new thread on Soul Sleep. We can discuss further there.
cheers!

 

[MeekandHumble]

Never mind, I have started a new thread on Soul Sleep. We can discuss further there.
cheers!

If David has received his reward, according to your logic, is he in Heaven or “hell”? Acts 2 specifically says he is buried in his tomb.

 

[raumzeitmc2]

I will not go down this road. The Holy Spirit guides us and gives us understanding. Now let’s go back to scripture.

Always be prepared to give an answer to *everyone *who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.

1 Peter 3:15

So there’s Scripture!

Now again I ask: is your interpretation of Scripture the only correct one?

We need to establish this first if we are to make any progress here.

 

[Vile_Servant]

If a person has received their reward, then where is David? Because according to Acts 2, he is still buried. You have to clear this up.

David’s body is still buried. David’s immortal soul has separated from his dead body and entered into eternity, and received his reward (or punishment, depending on God’s Judgement).

 

[MeekandHumble]

David’s body is still buried. David’s immortal soul has separated from his dead body and entered into eternity, and received his reward (or punishment, depending on God’s Judgement).

Where is that in the Bible. Jesus went to Heaven in body. What makes you think David did not have a body, and Christ did?

1:Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

If David can go to Heaven/or is in Heaven without a body, why is the resurrection needed?

 

[MeekandHumble]

1 Peter 3:15

So there’s Scripture!

Now again I ask: is your interpretation of Scripture the only correct one?

We need to establish this first if we are to make any progress here.

We make progress by using the Bible and comparing scripture.

It is obvious that you are trying to stray away from the discussion at hand. If you are going to question my interpretation and not give one that goes with scripture, then we have nothing more to discuss.

 

[raumzeitmc2]

We make progress by using the Bible and comparing scripture.

No we do not! On the contrary, were just going round-n-round in circles!

Please tell us: is yours the only allowable interpretation of Scripture?

It’s a simple, straightforward question.

 

[MeekandHumble]

No we do not! On the contrary, were just going round-n-round in circles!

Please tell us: is yours the only allowable interpretation of Scripture?

It’s a simple, straightforward question.

Do all catholics question a person’s authority/interpretation when they can’t debate with scripture?

 

[Felix_Il_Gatto]

Here is an example of a Catholic prayer to St Anthony of Padua;

***Unfailing Prayer to Saint Anthony
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints. ***

O Holy St. Anthony, gentlest of Saints, your love for God
and Charity for His creatures made you worthy, when on
earth, to possess miraculous powers. Miracles waited on
your word, which you were ever ready to speak for those in
trouble or anxiety. Encouraged by this thought,** I implore
of you to obtain for me (request).** The answer to my prayer
may require a miracle. Even so, you are the saint of
Miracles.

O gentle and loving St. Anthony, whose heart was ever full
of human sympathy, whisper my petition into the ears of the
Sweet Infant Jesus, who loved to be folded in your arms, and
the gratitude of my heart will ever be yours.

Amen. (Say 13 Paters, Aves, and Glorias)

Such tender devotion and intercessory prayer is cherished by Catholics, and I invite my Protestant brethren to try it too, you may be pleasantly surprised at the results.

I love this prayer very much. It has always worked for me. Saint Anthony is a very loving and caring intercessor and friend to me and I feel very sorry for those Christians who have not embraced a relationship with a patron saint.

 

[Vile_Servant]

If David can go to Heaven/or is in Heaven without a body, why is the resurrection needed?

So that the body can be reunited with the soul and enjoy the eternal reward together with the soul.

That is why Jesus said that he will come with rewards at the Last Judgement.

At the Particular Judgement, only the soul is rewarded. At the General Judgement, both the soul and body (which have reunited after the resurrection of the dead) will be rewarded.

Do read the Catechism, it’s all there!

 

[Vile_Servant]

I love this prayer very much. It has always worked for me. Saint Anthony is a very loving and caring intercessor and friend to me and I feel very sorry for those Christians who have not embraced a relationship with a patron saint.

Thank you for bringing us all back ON TOPIC!