Prayers to the Virgin Mary

[Luvtosew]

In my time away from the church i had read a lot of anti catholic stuff, But I have returned to the church received confession and communion and I am in the process of re-reading the catechism.

May God Bless you on your journey.

 

[JRKH]

In my time away from the church i had read a lot of anti catholic stuff, But I have returned to the church received confession and communion and I am in the process of re-reading the catechism.

Excellent place to start.

Peace
James

 

[sami1066]

Laudetur Jesus et Maria semper Virgo!

Greetings Sami and welcome to Catholic Answers Forum. This thread may not get many replies because it happens to be in the wrong sub-forum - perhaps it will be moved to the appropriate sub-forum in due time (Apologetics).

Nevertheless, this ignorant layman will give you some thoughts!

You don’t have a statue now… but just you wait And oh! What a marvelous position you are in! To have never asked the Blessed Virgin for her intercession means that when you do finally ask her to pray to Jesus for you many graces will be bestowed on you all at once. These are exciting times!

Perhaps you could cite exactly where prayer to Mary is forbidden and where statues of her are forbidden.

Please note that in the Old Testament statues were not forbidden. What is forbidden is graven images - that is, it is forbidden to make statues or images for the express purpose of worshiping these things as a god!

Notice in the Old Testament that almost immediately after having given Moses these commandments God commands Moses to make Cherubims to adorn the Ark! Not only that - but do you remember the story of the Bronze Snake? Where in order to be healed the people had to look at it? Ah! See!

Notice what happens on the Cross of Jesus Christ. Jesus was suffering. In all His pain, agony and suffering - despite what pain it would cause, He thought it important enough to utter the following words: “Woman, behold your son”. Then he said to the disciple, “Behold your mother”. Now why is this? And why was it recorded? Ah. We see now, it makes sense. Jesus was given Mary to all of us!

Much more could be said here. Think about the wedding of Cana where Mary first intercedes.

You’ve been reading some anti-Catholic material This is not true my friend!

Co-redemptrix may be tripping you up simply because of language. In English we tend to think of “co” as meaning “equal”. The Latin merely means “with”. Which is true. Mary co-operated with God when she said her great “Fiat (let it be done!)”. Without Mary then Jesus as we know Him wouldn’t be Jesus. Can you see this? Thus, it is true that while totally unequal to Jesus in every way because Jesus is God Almighty - Mary worked ‘with’ God so that the redemption could come about. Ah! Beautiful. Nothing to be afraid of there. Who else in history can claim to be the one who said “Yes” to God in such a way? Who else is the Mother of Christ? Nobody but Our Lady!

There are certain things Catholics must believe about Mary. Besides these beliefs (and the movement of the heart) You needn’t exactly have a massive devotion to Our Lady- but you’d be missing out! May I suggest you read a book called “The Glories of Mary” by St. Alphonsus? It is probably available online somewhere. This book will help you to see why Mary is venerated!

God Bless and I hope this has somewhat helped.

Ok I get your point, So our church never took the Commandment out the protestants lumped the 9th in to the10th and added the graven image commandment.
I stand corrected, I feel better about that now. Makes sense cherubs on the Ark I never even thought of that. I don’t think any Catholic believes a statue as something in itself but a representation an “Icon”.
I see your point on the Blessed virgin. Its about asking her to pray for us to The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I don’t think I can accept the Apparitions though.

 

[JRKH]

Ok I get your point, So our church never took the Commandment out the protestants lumped the 9th in to the10th and added the graven image commandment.
I stand corrected, I feel better about that now. Makes sense cherubs on the Ark I never even thought of that. I don’t think any Catholic believes a statue as something in itself but a representation an “Icon”.
I see your point on the Blessed virgin. Its about asking her to pray for us to The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I don’t think I can accept the Apparitions though.

We are not required to accept Apparitions. Not even those that are widely accepted such as Lourdes or Fatima.

Peace
James

 

[sami1066]

So its not heretical to not believe in apparitions?

 

[JRKH]

So its not heretical to not believe in apparitions?

Correct. Apparitions, even famous ones are considered “Private Revelations” and as such are not part of the things we are required to accept.
Apparitions are investigated, and are either approved or rejected but if approved that only means that nothing was found to indicate fraud or that anything “revealed” contradicts Church teaching.

Peace
James

 

[DJK100]

Patrick the Nitpicker here.

The ‘Protestant’ (sic) division of the Commandments, more properly called the Philonic Division, actually has quite an ancient pedigree: in fact, it is found in the writings of Philo and Josephus (De Decalogo 12.51; Antiquities 3.89-92), who both employ this reckoning long before Protestantism even existed. It is not just used by most Protestants, but is also the division of choice for the Eastern Orthodox even today. Some Church Fathers such as Origen (Homilies on Exodus, Homily 8 On the Beginning of the Decalogue), St. Gregory of Nazianzus (The Decalogue of Moses) and St. Jerome (Commentary on Ephesians 6) are also known to have used this reckoning.

Catholics and Lutherans use the so-called Augustinian division (named after St. Augustine, who popularized it), while modern-day Jews use the Talmudic division (so called because it is the one found in the Talmud.)

Fair enough. Thanks for the correction. Learning something new everyday.

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

Don’t worry OP, I don’t have statues of the Blessed Virgin Mary either. Instead, I have Icons. The good thing about them is that they’re not “graven”

Icons aren’t wrong, in fact, the Septuagint old testament says (Gen 1:27) καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ ϑεὸς τὸν ἄνϑρωπον, κατ’ **εἰκόνα **ϑεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν (kai epoièsen o Theos ton antropon, kat’**eikona **Theou epoièsen auton). *"And God made man, according to the **icon *of God He made him." So, we’re all icons of God.

I have never been in with protestants, but I am interested in orthodoxy

Orthodoxy has intercessory prayers and images of the saints as well.

 

[Trebor135]

I would like some thoughts, Im Roman Catholic but I do not have and will not have a statue of the Virgin Mary, I do not pray to her and Do not believe in the apparitions anywhere. My reasoning is from the Old testament and the Gospels.I Know the Vatican Removed the second Commandment , but I hold firm to it about no graven images, and believe that prayers should only be offered to Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I reject the Idea of co-redemptrix as Jesus said “i am the way the truth and the life, no one goes to the Father** but by me**”
Any thoughts please, is that wrong or is it down to personal belief???

I just rediscovered this article yesterday which talks about the co-mediatrix/co-redemptrix issue.

As another poster mentioned, the Lutherans structure the Ten Commandments in the same fashion as Catholics. Since they were the first Protestant group, it’s absolutely unreasonable to argue that the different layout of the Ten Commandments was some kind of Catholic attempt to conceal something shady.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Makes sense cherubs on the Ark I never even thought of that. I don’t think any Catholic believes a statue as something in itself but a representation an “Icon”.

In addition to the small cherub statues on the Ark of the Covenant, there were two large cherub statues in the original Temple in Jerusalem, each 10 cubits (15 feet) high. (1 Kings 6:26) So there’s no reason to condemn Catholics for having religious statues.

 

[patrick457]

In addition to the small cherub statues on the Ark of the Covenant, there were two large cherub statues in the original Temple in Jerusalem, each 10 cubits (15 feet) high. (1 Kings 6:26) So there’s no reason to condemn Catholics for having religious statues.

And remember that Solomon’s Temple was itself filled with imagery of ‘cherubim’ (we should not imagine cute babies or effeminate children here, but something along the lines of men or griffins or sphinxes with wings), palm trees, and flowers: which was actually a pretty common artistic element in Levantine art at the time, not unique to the Israelites.

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The cherubs on the Ark, as well as the large ones in the Temple, seem to have been thought of as representations of Yhwh’s (the “Rider of the cherubim”) mounts, and so is a visible symbol of the Invisible.

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[patrick457]

Don’t worry OP, I don’t have statues of the Blessed Virgin Mary either. Instead, I have Icons. The good thing about them is that they’re not “graven”

Icons aren’t wrong, in fact, the Septuagint old testament says (Gen 1:27) καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ ϑεὸς τὸν ἄνϑρωπον, κατ’ **εἰκόνα **ϑεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν (kai epoièsen o Theos ton antropon, kat’**eikona **Theou epoièsen auton). *“And God made man, according to the **icon ***of God He made him.” So, we’re all icons of God.

And note that Galatians says that Jesus Himself is “the image (icon) of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”

 

[Mberg3]

I would like some thoughts, Im Roman Catholic but I do not have and will not have a statue of the Virgin Mary, I do not pray to her and Do not believe in the apparitions anywhere. My reasoning is from the Old testament and the Gospels.I Know the Vatican Removed the second Commandment , but I hold firm to it about no graven images, and believe that prayers should only be offered to Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I reject the Idea of co-redemptrix as Jesus said “i am the way the truth and the life, no one goes to the Father** but by me**”
Any thoughts please, is that wrong or is it down to personal belief???

I think that your concerns were addressed in the 2nd Council of Nicaea (7th Ecumenical Council). piar.hu/councils/ecum07.htm#Anathemas%20concerning%20holy%20images
Pay close attention to the official declarations, and you will see that there is nothing wrong with praying to Mary or to having a stature in your possession.

Sorry if I repeated anying

 

[zz912]

Ok I get your point, So our church never took the Commandment out the protestants lumped the 9th in to the10th and added the graven image commandment.
I stand corrected, I feel better about that now. Makes sense cherubs on the Ark I never even thought of that. I don’t think any Catholic believes a statue as something in itself but a representation an “Icon”.
I see your point on the Blessed virgin. Its about asking her to pray for us to The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I don’t think I can accept the Apparitions though.

Scripture only tells us there are Ten Commandments, and Scripture also spells out those commandments, but they aren’t numbered. So either numbering is fine, they both contain all the commandments.