Praying About the Book of Mormon - Is it Biblical?

[AMDGtoo]

What I like about Joseph Smith is that all of it began when he was quite young. The book was published in 1830 when Joseph Smith was 25 years old. It would have taken him quite a few years to write the book of mormon if he wrote the book.

Not really. It wouldn’t have taken that many years to write if there were many passages that were hightly plagerized (as Grant Palmer’s book An Insider’s Guide to Mormon Origins seems to indicate. And don’t forget that even as a young man, Joseph Smith would often entertain his family with outlandish tales (as was mentioned in his biography). Never said that he didn’t have a good imagination.

 

[sablouwho]

And do you not, in your heart of hearts, blame him for not leaving and coming to Catholicism? Is it not, in your view, his fault that he can’t see the (in your view) falsity of his own beliefs?

No, I don’t. Considering his frame of reference, his missionary experiences in Rome, and lots of other things about him, I can totally understand why he’s LDS and I don’t blame him one bit for it. And for the record, I don’t blame Protestants for being Protestant either. Or my family for being secular Jews and not embracing Christ, for that matter

I am honestly surprised that you would make such an assumption about me, especially considering our PM’s. I’m almost wondering if you have me confused with another poster here?

Sheesh, there are some Catholics on CAF who have accused me “believing wrongly” (of course, without bothering to actually clarify nor ask me what I really believe – the same posteres are, by the way, anti-Mormon). One even managed to make an ethnic smear about my Jewish heritage and seemed to be implying that I wasn’t “good enough” to become Catholic (and is rabidly anti-Mormon too). Yet your question above seems to be putting me into the slot of a certain kind of staunchly fundamentalist Catholic that is very far from what I actually profess and believe and think. Thus I really hope I’ve misunderstood your meaning. Because I thought you knew me better than that.

But yeah, I do believe that God has guided me and my friend to different places. My thought on this and why it happens are not something I particularly enjoy getting into in detail on CAF, though. I don’t relish the idea of having the orthodox Catholics beating down my door…

 

[dianaiad]

No, I don’t. Considering his frame of reference, his missionary experiences in Rome, and lots of other things about him, I can totally understand why he’s LDS and I don’t blame him one bit for it. And for the record, I don’t blame Protestants for being Protestant either. Or my family for being secular Jews and not embracing Christ, for that matter

Perhaps ‘blame’ is not the correct word, since it has such a negative connotation. “Assign responsibility for,” might be a better term. Whose decision was it to be where they are/were? Are any of us forced to the beliefs we hold? Isn’t there some point at which we become responsible for our own thoughts, postive or negative, agree or disagree?

I am honestly surprised that you would make such an assumption about me, especially considering our PM’s. I’m almost wondering if you have me confused with another poster here?

It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve done THAT. (sigh) However, my point isn’t about fault finding. It’s about taking ownership for ones own beliefs, good or bad.

[Sheesh, there are some Catholics on CAF who have accused me “believing wrongly” (of course, without bothering to actually clarify nor ask me what I really believe – the same posteres are, by the way, anti-Mormon). One even managed to make an ethnic smear about my Jewish heritage and seemed to be implying that I wasn’t “good enough” to become Catholic (and is rabidly anti-Mormon too). Yet your question above seems to be putting me into the slot of a certain kind of staunchly fundamentalist Catholic that is very far from what I actually profess and believe and think. Thus I really hope I’ve misunderstood your meaning. Because I thought you knew me better than that.

But yeah, I do believe that God has guided me and my friend to different places. My thought on this and why it happens are not something I particularly enjoy getting into in detail on CAF, though. I don’t relish the idea of having the orthodox Catholics beating down my door…

[/quote]

I hope I cleared up the concept! It’s true; ‘blame,’ though it is the quick and easy word to use, doesn’t quite describe the concept I’m trying to get at, which is—God may guide, but it is WE who make the decision about that guidance. In that sense, we all take ownership of what we do. Perhaps, even when we make different decisions, those decisions are still the ones God guided us to make, but the upshot is, they are still our decisions, right?

 

[sablouwho]

In general I think it’s a combination of “nature and nurture”. You seem to be talking about free agency, albeit not using the term specifically.

But the point I was making above is that my friend (whom I love dearly nonetheless) was making me wrong, however so gently, in my not having gotten the same answer re: Mormonism as did he. And he is not the only LDS who has done this to me. Part of this is because, I believe, that LDS doctine and culture teaches them to think this way.

It also happens that I have not done the same to any of them. Nor to my Protestant friends, nor my Jewish family, (the latter, despite my very strong belief that Jesus is very much the Jewish messiah).

Perhaps ‘blame’ is not the correct word, since it has such a negative connotation. “Assign responsibility for,” might be a better term. Whose decision was it to be where they are/were? Are any of us forced to the beliefs we hold? Isn’t there some point at which we become responsible for our own thoughts, postive or negative, agree or disagree?

I hope I cleared up the concept! It’s true; ‘blame,’ though it is the quick and easy word to use, doesn’t quite describe the concept I’m trying to get at, which is—God may guide, but it is WE who make the decision about that guidance. In that sense, we all take ownership of what we do. Perhaps, even when we make different decisions, those decisions are still the ones God guided us to make, but the upshot is, they are still our decisions, right?

 

[dianaiad]

In general I think it’s a combination of “nature and nurture”. You seem to be talking about free agency, albeit not using the term specifically.

But the point I was making above is that my friend (whom I love dearly nonetheless) was making me wrong, however so gently, in my not having gotten the same answer re: Mormonism as did he. And he is not the only LDS who has done this to me. Part of this is because, I believe, that LDS doctine and culture teaches them to think this way.

It also happens that I have not done the same to any of them. Nor to my Protestant friends, nor my Jewish family, (the latter, despite my very strong belief that Jesus is very much the Jewish messiah).

You have no idea just how unique you are! Believe me, people do it to me all the time, and it is understandable. When one has a basic conviction that one’s own beliefs are THE TRUTH, then it is very difficult to understand why someone else would…REALLY…believe that something else is THE TRUTH, unless there is some character flaw involved.

by that, I mean…prejudice, or refusal to listen, or a deliberate sabotaging of the system, or (as the Calvinists might put it…) unregenerate. SOMETHING has to be wrong, other than God wants you here and not there, because it is very difficult for someone with very strong faith to understand how that could be even remotely possible.

And yes, Mormons are very guilty of this.

So are Catholics.

…and the most outspoken group in regard to this are not Catholics or Mormons, but the fundamentalist evangelical Protestants.

 

[sablouwho]

You have no idea just how unique you are!

Well, I guess not. But I do have to be on a watch for it–I tend towards black and white thinking, which in general is not so healthy (not just for me, but for anyone).

Believe me, people do it to me all the time, and it is understandable. When one has a basic conviction that one’s own beliefs are THE TRUTH, then it is very difficult to understand why someone else would…REALLY…believe that something else is THE TRUTH, unless there is some character flaw involved.

I believe you.

by that, I mean…prejudice, or refusal to listen, or a deliberate sabotaging of the system, or (as the Calvinists might put it…) unregenerate. SOMETHING has to be wrong, other than God wants you here and not there, because it is very difficult for someone with very strong faith to understand how that could be even remotely possible.

Um hum. I know this one–I’ve been on the receiving end of it. Not fun, IMO.

And yes, Mormons are very guilty of this.

So are Catholics.

…and the most outspoken group in regard to this are not Catholics or Mormons, but the fundamentalist evangelical Protestants.

In my experience as a Jewish non-believer, I am indeed familiar with fundie Prots (I lived in Texas for a while–'nuf said?). Not so “fun”. Other Jesus-affirming religious groups left me completely alone. (I mainly rubbed elbows with lots of Catholics and non-fundie Prots growing up. But it was also in New England where people didn’t wear religion on their sleeve. Didn’t knowingly know any Mormons till I met one when I lived in Austin.)

While there are no doubt some Catholics who are guilty of this, in general, I have personally found this type of Catholic to be very rare in real life. CAF, of course, is an entirely different story–that type of Catholic is found here a lot.

And, in real life, I find LDS to be more intense about this than Catholics. But that is my experience. It may also have to do with the fact that I was an active investigator and was very serious about the process. Who knows?!