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mytruepower2
Guest
Oh, you know. Things like Jesus having opened up divorce for women. That sort of thing.
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mytruepower2
Guest
I’m closer to St. Adelaide’s in Peabody, which I’ve heard is good, and I have been thinking about attending there, even though it’s out of my way.
M
mytruepower2
Guest
Well, when you get down to it, that’s ultimately the purpose.
M
mytruepower2
Guest
I’ve been hopping between parishes for a while, actually. The first had a priest who played a rock song at the end of Holy Mass. We left. The second had priests who said they “probably still believed” certain things in the bible. The third was good for a while, until one priest moved away and the pastor started doing the Holy Mass again, where he would try to convince us to be democrats. We left. The fourth had one priest who did very well, again, but he was gradually shifted to doing masses every other Friday, instead of all the time, and replaced by the priest who made that divorce comment I mentioned earlier.
That leads me to the church I’m at now. It was good too, for a while, until the parishes were “consolidated,” and the one who became the pastor was from a church with half an orchestra section. Soon, there were drums and a guitar in Holy Mass, and they were doing songs about ourselves, instead of about God.
Now, that seems to have lightened up right now, and I haven’t heard the drums or guitar for a while, but still, every so often, something really upsets me, or somebody says something that I know is wrong (like, judging people doesn’t follow the example of Jesus,) and I just have to distract myself to keep calm.
M
mytruepower2
Guest
This seems in contradiction to the encyclical Mediator Dei, paragraph 108, which says…
“Many of the faithful are unable to use the Roman missal even though it is written in the vernacular; nor are all capable of understanding correctly the liturgical rites and formulas. So varied and diverse are men’s talents and characters that it is impossible for all to be moved and attracted to the same extent by community prayers, hymns and liturgical services. Moreover, the needs and inclinations of all are not the same, nor are they always constant in the same individual. Who, then, would say, on account of such a prejudice, that all these Christians cannot participate in the Mass nor share its fruits? On the contrary, they can adopt some other method which proves easier for certain people; for instance, they can lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them.”
C
Cat
Guest
Several posters have posted links to Church documents that discourage the use of personal devotions during the liturgy of the Holy Mass. I think the OP should study these and make a determination to obey them.
Here’s what I recommend to the OP. Immerse yourself in the Mass as it happens, even if it isn’t perfect or even if it is outright “wrong.”
When it comes to the songs, ignore the musical style and instead, hold the hymnal, songsheet, or missallette, and STUDY the words of the song and meditate upon them. Even if the OP is opposed to “I” songs, study them anyway, and try to put yourself into the mind of the songwriter and imagine why he/she wrote the song. What was happening in their life that made them write the song? Is something similar happening in YOUR life?
Remember that many of the Psalms are “I” songs.
It might be a good idea to take a few notes on the songs, and later after Mass, look up the author of the hymn online and find out what their life history is. If that songwriter is still alive, write to them and ask outright about the songs. Who knows–perhaps you will strike up a friendship with the songwriter and change the whole course of their music!
In the same way, listen intently to the priest and take notes. Especially study the Bible passages on which the homily is based. During the Mass and later, do more study and correlate the Bible passages with what the priest said.
If you do this week after week, you will have a sizeable body of notes PROVING what you are saying about the priest, and this could be useful if you decide to appeal to your bishop. It’s doubtful that a bishop will listen if you just say, “The priest preaches heresy or politics or whatever.” But if you have pages of notes and studies, that’s hard to refute.
Now be careful. Don’t take sermon notes simply for the purpose of tattling on the priest and toppling him. That’s mean-spirited. Instead, genuinely try to find spiritual food in the priest’s homily and the readings.
Immerse yourself in the liturgical responses that don’t vary much, and if they vary, in your mind, say the correct responses.
Finally, revel in the Eucharist. Jesus is the SAME, yesterday, today, and forever! Praise and adore Him!
I hope this post is helpful to the OP and others. I often sit through Mass without hearing or paying attention to any of it, and I need to remember to do the same things that I have advised the OP to do.
Here’s what I recommend to the OP. Immerse yourself in the Mass as it happens, even if it isn’t perfect or even if it is outright “wrong.”
When it comes to the songs, ignore the musical style and instead, hold the hymnal, songsheet, or missallette, and STUDY the words of the song and meditate upon them. Even if the OP is opposed to “I” songs, study them anyway, and try to put yourself into the mind of the songwriter and imagine why he/she wrote the song. What was happening in their life that made them write the song? Is something similar happening in YOUR life?
Remember that many of the Psalms are “I” songs.
It might be a good idea to take a few notes on the songs, and later after Mass, look up the author of the hymn online and find out what their life history is. If that songwriter is still alive, write to them and ask outright about the songs. Who knows–perhaps you will strike up a friendship with the songwriter and change the whole course of their music!
In the same way, listen intently to the priest and take notes. Especially study the Bible passages on which the homily is based. During the Mass and later, do more study and correlate the Bible passages with what the priest said.
If you do this week after week, you will have a sizeable body of notes PROVING what you are saying about the priest, and this could be useful if you decide to appeal to your bishop. It’s doubtful that a bishop will listen if you just say, “The priest preaches heresy or politics or whatever.” But if you have pages of notes and studies, that’s hard to refute.
Now be careful. Don’t take sermon notes simply for the purpose of tattling on the priest and toppling him. That’s mean-spirited. Instead, genuinely try to find spiritual food in the priest’s homily and the readings.
Immerse yourself in the liturgical responses that don’t vary much, and if they vary, in your mind, say the correct responses.
Finally, revel in the Eucharist. Jesus is the SAME, yesterday, today, and forever! Praise and adore Him!
I hope this post is helpful to the OP and others. I often sit through Mass without hearing or paying attention to any of it, and I need to remember to do the same things that I have advised the OP to do.
R
RPRPsych
Guest
This is interesting, because my mother has an old (c. 1965) Missal (it’s a family heirloom), with the text of the Traditional Latin Mass, which includes a recommendation to say the Rosary - or its component prayers - if one isn’t able to follow the Missal itself. (It even had recommendations for the number of Paters, Aves and so forth.) Can anyone shed more light on this tradition?
T
ThyKingdomCome
Guest
How I would handle the OP’s question depends on the type of abuse. If it is something that happens frequently, like using too many EMHC’s or the overzealous human chain, I would try to train myself not to be distracted. If I was truly furious, I would certainly pray as you do (the Hail Mary is my go-to prayer), but otherwise, I would make quick intercessory prayers for whoever I am annoyed with, and I would pray for myself to be humble and focused on God. But I would try to stay within the prayer of the Mass as well. If it is a surprising abuse that is really offensive, like something truly awful being preached in a homily, I would repeat the Hail Mary while it is being said. The prayer would have 2 meanings: 1-to keep myself calm and prayerful, and 2-the prayer is offered for those who would be led astray by what is being preached. In general, I wouldn’t let myself go through Mass completely on a different prayer, but when moments of distraction pop up, it only makes sense to use a different prayer to turn the focus back to God.
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BiffRuffle
Guest
I’ve heard (from Fr. John Corapi) of a bishop who refused to ordain any man who was not in favour of women’s ordination.
T
TimothyH
Guest
I hope my post is taken in a spirit of charity. Anyone who gets that enraged at these things has an anger problem that needs to be addressed.
I’m not downplaying the abuses nor am I shifting blame and have no reason to doubt that what is described is actually happening. There is one parish in my area that sounds like the description. The OP says however, that he is disgusted, furious to the point of mortal sin and struggling to keep calm. These are serious anger problems and the OP describes it as happening over across five parishes and several priest reassignments. That sounds like a long period of time.
Peace in the face of tribulation is a sign that God is working in our lives. A monk once told me that an habitual reaction of prayer for those who annoy us rather than anger is a sure sign that we are on the right track.
I don’t know what the solution is. I just hope the OP finds peace. There are people in this world who deal with far worse and they do so without often loosing their peace. It is clear that something has to change and the last place we often want to look is within ourselves.
-Tim-
I’m not downplaying the abuses nor am I shifting blame and have no reason to doubt that what is described is actually happening. There is one parish in my area that sounds like the description. The OP says however, that he is disgusted, furious to the point of mortal sin and struggling to keep calm. These are serious anger problems and the OP describes it as happening over across five parishes and several priest reassignments. That sounds like a long period of time.
Peace in the face of tribulation is a sign that God is working in our lives. A monk once told me that an habitual reaction of prayer for those who annoy us rather than anger is a sure sign that we are on the right track.
I don’t know what the solution is. I just hope the OP finds peace. There are people in this world who deal with far worse and they do so without often loosing their peace. It is clear that something has to change and the last place we often want to look is within ourselves.
-Tim-
O
oldgraymare2
Guest
Hi Timothy,
I wanted to thank you for your beautiful and well-written post. It offers much to think about.
If I was a parishioner who saw something that was bothering me at a parish, I would just find another one to go to in my area, if that were possible to do.
It is actually possible for me to do in my own area, as there as still several parishes to choose from, but I realize that it may not be possible for everyone else, due to where they live, etc.
But–that is just my own opinion, and what I would personally do.
Others would have to think about if it was worth contacting their bishop if they saw liturgical abuses, etc.
I wanted to thank you for your beautiful and well-written post. It offers much to think about.
If I was a parishioner who saw something that was bothering me at a parish, I would just find another one to go to in my area, if that were possible to do.
It is actually possible for me to do in my own area, as there as still several parishes to choose from, but I realize that it may not be possible for everyone else, due to where they live, etc.
But–that is just my own opinion, and what I would personally do.
Others would have to think about if it was worth contacting their bishop if they saw liturgical abuses, etc.
J
janeway529
Guest
Considering that Mediator Dei was written in 1947, I would follow Marialis Cultus from 1974 since it is more specific and current. As Br. JR so often says, “No pope can bind a future pope.”
Also, poster #16 in this thread mentioned Pope Benedict XVI said something along the lines of Marialis Cultus.
C
Cat
Guest
This is a wonderful post, and good for all of us to remember. Thank you for posting it.
What I thought of when I read this post are the countries where Catholics and other Christians have been killed by terrorist groups during their Masses. Perhaps when we are troubled by a liturgical irregularity in our OF Mass, we should say a prayer for those in other countries who face death for their Christian faith.
P
ProVobis
Guest
What specifically does Marialis Cultus contradict or abolish in Mediator Dei? My understanding is that actuosa participatio was encouraged going back further than 1947.
M
mytruepower2
Guest
I don’t think you understand my problem.Several posters have posted links to Church documents that discourage the use of personal devotions during the liturgy of the Holy Mass. I think the OP should study these and make a determination to obey them.
Here’s what I recommend to the OP. Immerse yourself in the Mass as it happens, even if it isn’t perfect or even if it is outright “wrong.”
When it comes to the songs, ignore the musical style and instead, hold the hymnal, songsheet, or missallette, and STUDY the words of the song and meditate upon them. Even if the OP is opposed to “I” songs, study them anyway, and try to put yourself into the mind of the songwriter and imagine why he/she wrote the song. What was happening in their life that made them write the song? Is something similar happening in YOUR life?
Remember that many of the Psalms are “I” songs.
It might be a good idea to take a few notes on the songs, and later after Mass, look up the author of the hymn online and find out what their life history is. If that songwriter is still alive, write to them and ask outright about the songs. Who knows–perhaps you will strike up a friendship with the songwriter and change the whole course of their music!
In the same way, listen intently to the priest and take notes. Especially study the Bible passages on which the homily is based. During the Mass and later, do more study and correlate the Bible passages with what the priest said.
If you do this week after week, you will have a sizeable body of notes PROVING what you are saying about the priest, and this could be useful if you decide to appeal to your bishop. It’s doubtful that a bishop will listen if you just say, “The priest preaches heresy or politics or whatever.” But if you have pages of notes and studies, that’s hard to refute.
Now be careful. Don’t take sermon notes simply for the purpose of tattling on the priest and toppling him. That’s mean-spirited. Instead, genuinely try to find spiritual food in the priest’s homily and the readings.
Immerse yourself in the liturgical responses that don’t vary much, and if they vary, in your mind, say the correct responses.
Finally, revel in the Eucharist. Jesus is the SAME, yesterday, today, and forever! Praise and adore Him!
I hope this post is helpful to the OP and others. I often sit through Mass without hearing or paying attention to any of it, and I need to remember to do the same things that I have advised the OP to do.
I’m studious, reflective and logical by nature. Indeed, that’s why these problems hurt me so badly, and the very reason why I’m so desperate to turn my attention onto something purer. To immerse myself in such errors only makes matters worse than they would have been otherwise. I need an actual solution.
M
mytruepower2
Guest
Thank you. Those were my thoughts as well.
M
mytruepower2
Guest
Indeed, that’s the reason why I posed this question to begin with. For me, it’s a choice between the two. Either I pray when bad things happen to the church, or I’m angry, and I’d so much rather pray.
M
mytruepower2
Guest
This seems to be a serious mistake. I think this is true of the british parliament, but it’s not of the Catholic Church.
In the Church, there are three main areas in which the pope has authority. Direct authority to profess infallibly (1) doctrine of faith, and (2) doctrine of morals, and (3) direct authority to bind Catholics to obedience in matters of church discipline.
In either of the first two cases, each pope to professes doctrine professes something by which all future popes are bound, because no pope can change the doctrines of the Church, any more than they can change the nature of God, from whom those doctrines proceed.
That only leaves case 3, but there are still many questions to be answered before this issue can be proven to fall under that category. It must be established whether the issue of prayers and devotions during the mass is a discipline issue, rather than a doctrine of morals. If it is a doctrine of morals, the oldest tradition affirmed by Church authority is still the correct teaching. If not, it may not be. There seems to be some grounds for legitimate confusion here.
Also, I hate to say it, but the tendency to just follow whatever is more recent has a distinctly modernist feel to it.
P
ProVobis
Guest
I tend to agree with you. For one thing, we shouldn’t have to pit one Pope against another. I forget the Latin for it but there is a rule that basically Popes are equal to each other. The real issue seems to be one of authority and as ewtn notes:
ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=564105
R
robwar
Guest
Agree 100%
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