T
Toni
Guest
I recall reading a few books about exorcisms that had to do with Judas as well. But as stated if you pray for him and he is in hell God will use your prayers for someone else.
- Status
W
wjp984
Guest
I like a few others have always felt nsorry for Judas as well. Jesus already knew what Judas was going to do at the Last Supper an announced it. Also, Jesus forgave the soldiers that crucified him. Not to mention that Judas was sorry for what he did. He went about it the wrong way and killed himself but he did realise that what he did was worng. Finally, Peter also denied Jesus and in a sense betrayed him. Had Judas repented and went before Jesus asking for forgiveness after his resurection he might have become one of the apostles again. It was probabyl more the suicide that did him in more than the actual act of betrayal. So perhaps if Judas was sorry and could not live with his guilt he was instead sent to Purgatory and mostlikey is still ther now and will be there for a very very long time but essentially can get out. We don’t know.
T
tjmiller
Guest
We do know.
Jesus declared Judas to be damned.
What is so hard to understand about this?
Jesus declared Judas to be damned.
What is so hard to understand about this?
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
If one of the greatest theologians of the Church and commentator on the New Testament, Saint John Chrysostom, believed that Judas may have been saved who are we with with our small minds clouded by sin to be so adamant?
T
tjmiller
Guest
I’m rather sure that Jesus Christ, as recorded by St. John the Divine, is a better authority on the eternal fate of Judas than is an Antiochene priest…
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
Here are three official answers from the “Ask An Apologist” section of the Forum.
1. Did Judas go to hell?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=82131
“…we don’t know for certain that he did not repent of his sins before his death so we cannot say with certainty that he is in hell.”
2. Will the vast majority of people end up in hell?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=12977
“Even when Jesus says of Judas, the traitor, “It would be better for that man if he had never been born” (Mt 26:24), His words do not allude for certain to eternal damnation.”
3. What’s the difference between Judas and St. Peter?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=13026
“…it is possible that at the last moment of his life, Judas could have repented and asked forgiveness. If he did, he could be in heaven, waiting for us. All things are possible in our Lord, Jesus Christ!” ~ Fr Vincent Serpa
1. Did Judas go to hell?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=82131
“…we don’t know for certain that he did not repent of his sins before his death so we cannot say with certainty that he is in hell.”
2. Will the vast majority of people end up in hell?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=12977
“Even when Jesus says of Judas, the traitor, “It would be better for that man if he had never been born” (Mt 26:24), His words do not allude for certain to eternal damnation.”
3. What’s the difference between Judas and St. Peter?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=13026
“…it is possible that at the last moment of his life, Judas could have repented and asked forgiveness. If he did, he could be in heaven, waiting for us. All things are possible in our Lord, Jesus Christ!” ~ Fr Vincent Serpa
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
Saint John Chrysostom was one of the greatest bishops and theologians of the Catholic Church.
T
tjmiller
Guest
John 17:12.
You cannot get much more damned than to be judged by God as the “Son of Perdition”, and to be definitively designated by Him as “LOST”.
(Is there some kind of weird movement here to canonize, or at least exculpate, the Son of Perdition, in opposition to the clear words of Christ?)
By the unmistakable declaration of the Lord, we see that Judas not only was damned, but was so verily damned as to be regarded as the offspring of Hell itself.
Once more, I fail to see what is so difficult to understand about Christ’s clear words.
Perdition!
Lost!
You cannot get much more damned than to be judged by God as the “Son of Perdition”, and to be definitively designated by Him as “LOST”.
(Is there some kind of weird movement here to canonize, or at least exculpate, the Son of Perdition, in opposition to the clear words of Christ?)
By the unmistakable declaration of the Lord, we see that Judas not only was damned, but was so verily damned as to be regarded as the offspring of Hell itself.
Once more, I fail to see what is so difficult to understand about Christ’s clear words.
Perdition!
Lost!
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
Well, obviously the majority opinion is against this hardline position.
The official Apologists who answer questions in the “Ask and Apologist” section are all very conservative but they say that Judas may be saved.
So, the poem which I provided is an acceptable statement of the belief of the majority of the Church.
T
tjmiller
Guest
Ah yes, the majority.
Any dead fish can float along with the stream.
Only a live fish can swim against it.
I have yet to encounter an intelligent objection to the Lord’s proclamation of Judas’ damnation in John 17.
Any dead fish can float along with the stream.
Only a live fish can swim against it.
I have yet to encounter an intelligent objection to the Lord’s proclamation of Judas’ damnation in John 17.
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
You have yet to provide evidence that this is the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. All we have is your say so.
T
tjmiller
Guest
I make no pretense as to the teaching of the Catholic Church on this matter. There is none. Officially.
But there are the clear “unofficial” words of Jesus Christ in Sacred Scripture, which no one has yet convincingly gainsaid.
LOST.
PERDITION.
Someone, please explain away the teachings of the Lord.
But there are the clear “unofficial” words of Jesus Christ in Sacred Scripture, which no one has yet convincingly gainsaid.
LOST.
PERDITION.
Someone, please explain away the teachings of the Lord.
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
I think that is is interesting to look at the reason that Judas betrayed the Lord.
In wasn’t in fact because he had no belief in Him. Judas’s problem was that he had too much belief. He had witnessed for several years the miracles performed all over Israel and he had heard the sermons and the adulation of the population and the incredible street scenes on Palm Sunday. He believed that Jesus was the Messiah and he made the incredibly foolish mistake of trying to force Jesus to reveal Himself and His power at the time of the Passover.
It backfired horribly. Not only did Jesus not do what Judas expected -call down thousands of angels and make Himself the Messiah-King of Israel- but He accepted to be nailed to a Cross and to die in humiliation. Judas was not expecting this. Where he had planned a triumph for Jesus, he saw instead death and shame.
In wasn’t in fact because he had no belief in Him. Judas’s problem was that he had too much belief. He had witnessed for several years the miracles performed all over Israel and he had heard the sermons and the adulation of the population and the incredible street scenes on Palm Sunday. He believed that Jesus was the Messiah and he made the incredibly foolish mistake of trying to force Jesus to reveal Himself and His power at the time of the Passover.
It backfired horribly. Not only did Jesus not do what Judas expected -call down thousands of angels and make Himself the Messiah-King of Israel- but He accepted to be nailed to a Cross and to die in humiliation. Judas was not expecting this. Where he had planned a triumph for Jesus, he saw instead death and shame.
M
Magicsilence
Guest
Fr Ambrose:
It backfired horribly. Not only did Jesus not do what Judas expected -call down thousands of angels and make Himself the Messiah-King of Israel- but He accepted to be nailed to a Cross and to die in humiliation. Judas was not expecting this. Where he had planned a triumph for Jesus, he saw instead death and shame.
Hmmm… Im not sure about such an explanation.
Sounds slightly dodgy.
What of all things on earth is not worth having been alive for? The only thing is hell. And Christ said that it would have been better for him not to have lived. Which to me also indicates, that Christs plan of salvation did not depend on Judas AT ALL. Why would G-d need man for anything?
In Christ.
Andre.
belief. He had witnessed for several years the miracles performed all over Israel and he had heard the sermons and the adulation of the population and the incredible street scenes on Palm Sunday. He believed that Jesus was the Messiah and he made the incredibly foolish mistake of trying to force Jesus to reveal Himself and His power at the time of the Passover.
It backfired horribly. Not only did Jesus not do what Judas expected -call down thousands of angels and make Himself the Messiah-King of Israel- but He accepted to be nailed to a Cross and to die in humiliation. Judas was not expecting this. Where he had planned a triumph for Jesus, he saw instead death and shame.
Hmmm… Im not sure about such an explanation.
Sounds slightly dodgy.
What of all things on earth is not worth having been alive for? The only thing is hell. And Christ said that it would have been better for him not to have lived. Which to me also indicates, that Christs plan of salvation did not depend on Judas AT ALL. Why would G-d need man for anything?
In Christ.
Andre.
T
tjmiller
Guest
The only reason it can be better never to have been born, is to end up in Hell.
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
One thing we humans are very good at is imprisoning God in a prison which we construct from our own logic. Then we insist that He* must* act the way we think because we see it as logical.
God is love and God is mercy - that means He is not always logical.
T
tjmiller
Guest
Father Ambrose,
I am astonished at your Judas-exculpatory liberalism.
We do not imprison God, by taking Him at His word.
I am astonished at your Judas-exculpatory liberalism.
We do not imprison God, by taking Him at His word.
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
It is not liberalism.
It is found in the teaching of Saint John Chrysostom in the 4th century.
My own Church has never said that Judas is in hell for sure. The only person of whom this is said is Arius - the statement is made in the annual Service which celebrates the First Ecumenical Council.
To judge by the three separate answers about Judas’s fate in the “Ask an Apologist” section of the Forum, Catholics will not definitely say that Judas is in hell either.
T
tjmiller
Guest
Come on, Fr. A. -
you and I both know that “Ask An Apologist” ain’t no Magisterium.
[Sorry, Apologists.]
By all means, using the Golden-Mouth or any other, please explain away Christ’s clear declaration as to Judas’ damnation. It seems rather self-evident. No intelligent arguments have yet been forthcoming.
you and I both know that “Ask An Apologist” ain’t no Magisterium.
[Sorry, Apologists.]
By all means, using the Golden-Mouth or any other, please explain away Christ’s clear declaration as to Judas’ damnation. It seems rather self-evident. No intelligent arguments have yet been forthcoming.
F
Fr_Ambrose
Guest
From a source which nobody would dream of calling ‘liberal’ - the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia:
“And though the circumstances of the death of the traitor give too much reason to fear the worst, the Sacred Text does not distinctly reject the possibility of real repentance.”
newadvent.org/cathen/08539a.htm
“And though the circumstances of the death of the traitor give too much reason to fear the worst, the Sacred Text does not distinctly reject the possibility of real repentance.”
newadvent.org/cathen/08539a.htm
- Status