Praying for Muslims

[HailMary]

Since we Catholics are privledged to be a part of the Public Service (the Divine Liturgy) I wanted to know how many Catholics are fervently praying for the conversion of the Muslims? Do not be try be pious and just answer yes because it is a good thing to do; how many have actually done it?

 

[homewardbound]

I haven’t, and really haven’t thought much about it. Thanks for planting the idea in my head though.

 

[palmas85]

I have not, and since I truly believe that the Church would not be in favor of such a thing I will not.

We used to pray for the conversion of the Jews and others which I presume meant Muslims as well. However, after Vatican II we stopped doing such things.

I wish we would as I think they are truly wrong, but I have to follow what the Church says.

 

[Evan]

Our Lady of Fatima asked us to pray for the conversion of Muslims and their conversion was to take place through her.

In the most recent Divine Office, we still pray on certain days for the conversion of the Jews.

 

[palmas85]

Our Lady of Fatima asked us to pray for the conversion of Muslims and their conversion was to take place through her.

In the most recent Divine Office, we still pray on certain days for the conversion of the Jews.

Which days and using which Liturgy of the Hours?

I know the Church stopped praying for the conversion of the Jews after Vatican II.

 

[HailMary]

I have not, and since I truly believe that the Church would not be in favor of such a thing I will not.

We used to pray for the conversion of the Jews and others which I presume meant Muslims as well. However, after Vatican II we stopped doing such things.

I wish we would as I think they are truly wrong, but I have to follow what the Church says.

I have never heard of that the Church does not want the conversion of the Jews, muslims or anything else. How do you qualify this statment?

 

[HailMary]

Which days and using which Liturgy of the Hours?

I know the Church stopped praying for the conversion of the Jews after Vatican II.

I’m eastern rite so I do not have a Liturgy of the Hours. I meant who is praying during the mass proper.

 

[Noman]

Since we Catholics are privledged to be a part of the Public Service (the Divine Liturgy) I wanted to know how many Catholics are fervently praying for the conversion of the Muslims? Do not be try be pious and just answer yes because it is a good thing to do; how many have actually done it?

Yes, I often pray for the conversion of Muslins as Our Lady of Fatima asked.

 

[tjm8]

No, never have.

 

[Genesis315]

Of course we are to pray for the conversion of others. Vatican II changed no such thing!! Both Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II even wrote encyclicals on evangelization! Ack, where does this idea come from?!?!?!!?

Please, please pray for the conversion of others!

Anyway, my priests suggested praying three Hail Mary’s each day for their conversion like we used to do for Russia.

 

[palmas85]

I have never heard of that the Church does not want the conversion of the Jews, muslims or anything else. How do you qualify this statment?

Read Sections 639-843 in the current caechism of the Catholic Church for a start. Then compare the Good Friday reading from pre Pauline Rite sources and today.

Also, think of the last time you heard the Church publically call for prayers on the conversion of anybody at all…

Even if it is not official policy, I can almost guarantee you that the Church is not going to have people publically pray for the conversion of either Jews or Muslims, not in these Ecumenically and interfaith minded times…

What we do as individuals is one thing. What the Church teaches and does publically is something entirely different.

 

[estesbob]

Our Lady of Fatima asked us to pray for the conversion of Muslims and their conversion was to take place through her.

In the most recent Divine Office, we still pray on certain days for the conversion of the Jews.

I have been praying the Office for years and dont recall coming across that . Of course if it in the Morning prayer It could be I wasnt awake enough to see it.

 

[HailMary]

Maybe you can be more specific about the not praying for muslims, jews statment

 

[HailMary]

Read Sections 639-843 in the current caechism of the Catholic Church for a start. Then compare the Good Friday reading from pre Pauline Rite sources and today.

Also, think of the last time you heard the Church publically call for prayers on the conversion of anybody at all…

Even if it is not official policy, I can almost guarantee you that the Church is not going to have people publically pray for the conversion of either Jews or Muslims, not in these Ecumenically and interfaith minded times…

What we do as individuals is one thing. What the Church teaches and does publically is something entirely different.

I didnt have time to read the whole thing but what I read, and from the Gospel, and common sense I believe we are supposed to pray for everyones conversion

820 "Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time."277 Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me."278 The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.279

 

[palmas85]

I didnt have time to read the whole thing but what I read, and from the Gospel, and common sense I believe we are supposed to pray for everyones conversion

820 "Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time."277 Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me."278 The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.279

It really doesn’t matter a whole lot what you obtain from your interpretation of the Gospel and common sense. Sorry, but it doesn’t. What matters is what the Church says. As Catholics we do not engage in private interpretation of scripture but accept the teaching authority of the Church through the Magesterium. I know that many Catholics today have accepted the Protestant teaching that every person guided by the Holy Spirit can and must interpret scripture for himself. Look what that theory has dome to the Protestants, thousands and thousands of different groups, separated solely by varied individual interpretations of scripture. No unless I’m seriously mistaken, the Church still is the final interpretor of scripture, not us.

The Church does not currently teach or support or publically call for the conversion of Muslims or Jews to the Catholic faith. . If you can find something in current church teaching and dogmas that does, I will be overjoyed and happy and make a public apology to anyone and everyone on this forum or any other that I’ve offended.

The plain truth is that the Church WILL NOT as a matter of policy I suppose, make a public appeal or prayer for the conversion of any religious group whatsoever to the Catholic faith… I’m sorry to say that but they won’t, and it is not going to happen.

Look what happened when the Holy Father mentioned something said by somebody else hundereds of years ago about the validity of the Muslim faith. What do you think would happen if all of a sudden as a matter of course the Church publically called for the conversion of Muslims to Catholicism???

I don’t think the Jews would react as violently but the reaction would be essentially the same, outrage and consternation. Not only from outside the Church but many within it,

Be it good or bad the Church, I feel, solely as a reaction to the modern world has accepted the validity and truth of other faiths and seriously cut down on its efforts at evangelization. I don’t agree with it, I feel it to be totally misguided and in fact places the Church in a very compromising position, but it is what the Church says does and teaches… At least for now. We can always hope.

As far as Our Lady of Fatima, the Church places her and Our Lady of Lourdes and several others in the category of approved apparitions I guess, for lack of a better term. . No Catholic is bound to accept her prophecies, requests or even that she appeared. . Catholics can accept as true what she said or not. That is a matter of personal choice.

There are also numerous apparitions that have been condemned by the Church as not being authentic, yet many adhere to and believe them to be true. They don’t accept what the Church has decreed…

Don’t get me wrong, please, I believe to my heart that we should pray to covert the whole world to the Catholic faith. But until Rome says that we are to do it, I cannot. I have loyalty and fealty to the Holy Father and to the Church. What I may want personally has to be filtered through the truths taught and adhered to by the Church as a whole.

I noticed a typo in my earlier post it should be 839 of the Catechism not 639, Sorry.

 

[HailMary]

It really doesn’t matter a whole lot what you obtain from your interpretation of the Gospel and common sense. Sorry, but it doesn’t. What matters is what the Church says. As Catholics we do not engage in private interpretation of scripture but accept the teaching authority of the Church through the Magesterium. I know that many Catholics today have accepted the Protestant teaching that every person guided by the Holy Spirit can and must interpret scripture for himself. Look what that theory has dome to the Protestants, thousands and thousands of different groups, separated solely by varied individual interpretations of scripture. No unless I’m seriously mistaken, the Church still is the final interpretor of scripture, not us.

The Church does not currently teach or support or publically call for the conversion of Muslims or Jews to the Catholic faith. . If you can find something in current church teaching and dogmas that does, I will be overjoyed and happy and make a public apology to anyone and everyone on this forum or any other that I’ve offended.

The plain truth is that the Church WILL NOT as a matter of policy I suppose, make a public appeal or prayer for the conversion of any religious group whatsoever to the Catholic faith… I’m sorry to say that but they won’t, and it is not going to happen.

Look what happened when the Holy Father mentioned something said by somebody else hundereds of years ago about the validity of the Muslim faith. What do you think would happen if all of a sudden as a matter of course the Church publically called for the conversion of Muslims to Catholicism???

I don’t think the Jews would react as violently but the reaction would be essentially the same, outrage and consternation. Not only from outside the Church but many within it,

Be it good or bad the Church, I feel, solely as a reaction to the modern world has accepted the validity and truth of other faiths and seriously cut down on its efforts at evangelization. I don’t agree with it, I feel it to be totally misguided and in fact places the Church in a very compromising position, but it is what the Church says does and teaches… At least for now. We can always hope.

As far as Our Lady of Fatima, the Church places her and Our Lady of Lourdes and several others in the category of approved apparitions I guess, for lack of a better term. . No Catholic is bound to accept her prophecies, requests or even that she appeared. . Catholics can accept as true what she said or not. That is a matter of personal choice.

There are also numerous apparitions that have been condemned by the Church as not being authentic, yet many adhere to and believe them to be true. They don’t accept what the Church has decreed…

Don’t get me wrong, please, I believe to my heart that we should pray to covert the whole world to the Catholic faith. But until Rome says that we are to do it, I cannot. I have loyalty and fealty to the Holy Father and to the Church. What I may want personally has to be filtered through the truths taught and adhered to by the Church as a whole.

I noticed a typo in my earlier post it should be 839 of the Catechism not 639, Sorry.

Firstly, it does matter what we think. Faith does not conflict with reason.

Secondly, you said, “As Catholics we do not engage in private interpretation of scripture but accept the teaching authority of the Church through the Magesterium”. Also untrue. The Church teaches the supremecy of the conscience. I am NOT saying we are at liberty to believe whatever we want. And we must accept the teaching authority of the Magesterium, of course. However, we are supposed to conform our consciences to that of the Church but no where does the Church say we cannot try to expand on a passage in scripture. Otherwise the Church would effectively say that we are not allowed to have bible studies.

Thirdly, the question I originally asked in the poll was concerned the “Common Priesthood” - the lay. All the items you touched upon had to do with the Public Voice (the Bishopsetc) of the Church.

and “The Church does not currently teach or support or publically call for the conversion of Muslims or Jews to the Catholic faith. . If you can find something in current church teaching and dogmas that does, I will be overjoyed and happy and make a public apology… "
The Church wills all men to be saved. 1 Tim 2:4 " (GOD) who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.” Period. Whether or not they are currently doing so is irrelevant. And why does it need to be “current”?
Jesus said, " Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit". In order for someone to be a “disciple” they need to be CONVERTED and that requires grace on Gods part and prayer on your part for your muslim brother since we are all family. Also the world recieves graces from the MASS. That is one of its purposes. Why do they need grace if its not for their salvation (which of course, needs CONVERSION first)?

God Bless.

 

[Genesis315]

You better believe the Church teaches us to pray for conversions. Vatican II declares it itself. From Apostolicam Actuositatem on the Apostolate of the Laity (please read this entire document):

They should all remember that they can reach all men and contribute to the salvation of the whole world by public worship and prayer as well as by penance and voluntary acceptance of the labors and hardships of life whereby they become like the suffering Christ (cf. 2 Cor. 4:10; Col. 1:24).

Here is some more

From Ad Gentes (On the Mission Activity of the Church) :

Institutes of the contemplative life, by their prayers, sufferings, and works of penance have a very great importance in the conversion of souls, because it is God who sends workers into His harvest when He is asked to do so (cf. Matt. 9:38) God who opens the minds of non - Christians to hear the Gospel (cf. Acts 16:14), and God who fructifies the word of salvation in their hearts (cf. 1 C,or. 3:7).

More from this document (please read the whole document, not just the bits I have posted):

In the present state of affairs, out of which there is arising a new situation for mankind, the Church, being the salt of the earth and the light of the world (cf. Matt. 5:13-14), is more urgently called upon to save and renew every creature, that all things may be restored in Christ and all men may constitute one family in Him and one people of God.

Therefore, this sacred synod, while rendering thanks to God for the excellent results that have been achieved through the whole Church’s great-hearted endeavor, desires to sketch the principles of missionary activity and to rally the forces of all the faithful in order that the people of God, marching along the narrow way of the Cross, may spread everywhere the reign of Christ, Lord and overseer of the ages (cf. Ecc. 36:19), and may prepare the way for his coming.

---

We are ALWAYS supposed to work towards the evangelization and conversion of others. Here are a few of the many examples of this. I took a few of the many such exhortations from one of John Paul II’s encyclicals. I have also provided other post-concillar encyclicals containing the same message. Please read them all.

“The task of evangelizing all people constitutes the essential mission of the Church … Evangelizing is in fact *the grace and vocation proper to the Church, *her deepest identity. She exists in order to evangelize”.(69)

“The proclamation of the word of God has Christian conversion as its aim: a complete and sincere adherence to Christ and his Gospel through faith”.(138)

1. The Name of Jesus Christ is the only one by which it has been decreed that we can be saved (cf. Acts 4:12). Because in Africa there are millions who are not yet evangelized, the Church is faced with the necessary and urgent task of proclaiming the Good News to all, and leading those who hear it to Baptism and the Christian life.

John Paul II, Ecclesia in Africa (On the Church in Africa) September 14, 1995 [Apostolic Exhortation]

Please read these to see the importance of working and praying towards the conversion of all:

Paul VI, Evangelii Nuntiandi (On Evangelization in the Modern World) December 8, 1975 [Apostolic Exhortation]

John Paul II, Ut Unum Sint (That they may be one - On Commitment to Ecumenism) May 25, 1995

John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (On the Permanent Validity of the Church’s Missionary Mandate) December 7, 1990

John Paul II, Ecclesia in Asia (On the Church in Asia) November 6, 1999 [Apostolic Exhortation]

John Paul II, Christifideles Laici (The Vocation and Mission of the Lay Faithful in the Church and in the World) December 30, 1988 [Apostolic Exhortation]

 

[MyPhilomena]

Since we Catholics are privledged to be a part of the Public Service (the Divine Liturgy) I wanted to know how many Catholics are fervently praying for the conversion of the Muslims? Do not be try be pious and just answer yes because it is a good thing to do; how many have actually done it?

I not only pray for their conversion, but that of the whole world.

 

[palmas85]

Firstly, it does matter what we think. Faith does not conflict with reason.

Secondly, you said, “As Catholics we do not engage in private interpretation of scripture but accept the teaching authority of the Church through the Magesterium”. Also untrue. The Church teaches the supremecy of the conscience. I am NOT saying we are at liberty to believe whatever we want. And we must accept the teaching authority of the Magesterium, of course. However, we are supposed to conform our consciences to that of the Church but no where does the Church say we cannot try to expand on a passage in scripture. Otherwise the Church would effectively say that we are not allowed to have bible studies.

Thirdly, the question I originally asked in the poll was concerned the “Common Priesthood” - the lay. All the items you touched upon had to do with the Public Voice (the Bishopsetc) of the Church.

and “The Church does not currently teach or support or publically call for the conversion of Muslims or Jews to the Catholic faith. . If you can find something in current church teaching and dogmas that does, I will be overjoyed and happy and make a public apology… "
The Church wills all men to be saved. 1 Tim 2:4 " (GOD) who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.” Period. Whether or not they are currently doing so is irrelevant. And why does it need to be “current”?
Jesus said, " Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit". In order for someone to be a “disciple” they need to be CONVERTED and that requires grace on Gods part and prayer on your part for your muslim brother since we are all family. Also the world recieves graces from the MASS. That is one of its purposes. Why do they need grace if its not for their salvation (which of course, needs CONVERSION first)?

God Bless.

Great then. I’ll tell you what. Ask your parish priest to publically offer prayers for the conversion of Jews or Muslims or any other group for that matter, tell me when he is going to do it and I will come in to hear it.

Hows that? That is how certain I am that it will not be done.

And yes, I know that as an individual I can pray for whatever I want and my conscience has to guide me.

I still have to accept what the Church teaches. I cannot pick and choose.

 

[palmas85]

You better believe the Church teaches us to pray for conversions. Vatican II declares it itself. From Apostolicam Actuositatem on the Apostolate of the Laity (please read this entire document):

Here is some more

From Ad Gentes (On the Mission Activity of the Church) :

Institutes of the contemplative life, by their prayers, sufferings, and works of penance have a very great importance in the conversion of souls, because it is God who sends workers into His harvest when He is asked to do so (cf. Matt. 9:38) God who opens the minds of non - Christians to hear the Gospel (cf. Acts 16:14), and God who fructifies the word of salvation in their hearts (cf. 1 C,or. 3:7).

More from this document (please read the whole document, not just the bits I have posted):

In the present state of affairs, out of which there is arising a new situation for mankind, the Church, being the salt of the earth and the light of the world (cf. Matt. 5:13-14), is more urgently called upon to save and renew every creature, that all things may be restored in Christ and all men may constitute one family in Him and one people of God.

Therefore, this sacred synod, while rendering thanks to God for the excellent results that have been achieved through the whole Church’s great-hearted endeavor, desires to sketch the principles of missionary activity and to rally the forces of all the faithful in order that the people of God, marching along the narrow way of the Cross, may spread everywhere the reign of Christ, Lord and overseer of the ages (cf. Ecc. 36:19), and may prepare the way for his coming.

---

We are ALWAYS supposed to work towards the evangelization and conversion of others. Here are a few of the many examples of this. I took a few of the many such exhortations from one of John Paul II’s encyclicals. I have also provided other post-concillar encyclicals containing the same message. Please read them all.

“The task of evangelizing all people constitutes the essential mission of the Church … Evangelizing is in fact *the grace and vocation proper to the Church, *her deepest identity. She exists in order to evangelize”.(69)

“The proclamation of the word of God has Christian conversion as its aim: a complete and sincere adherence to Christ and his Gospel through faith”.(138)

1. The Name of Jesus Christ is the only one by which it has been decreed that we can be saved (cf. Acts 4:12). Because in Africa there are millions who are not yet evangelized, the Church is faced with the necessary and urgent task of proclaiming the Good News to all, and leading those who hear it to Baptism and the Christian life.

John Paul II, Ecclesia in Africa (On the Church in Africa) September 14, 1995 [Apostolic Exhortation]

Please read these to see the importance of working and praying towards the conversion of all:

Paul VI, Evangelii Nuntiandi (On Evangelization in the Modern World) December 8, 1975 [Apostolic Exhortation]

John Paul II, Ut Unum Sint (That they may be one - On Commitment to Ecumenism) May 25, 1995

John Paul II, Redemptoris Missio (On the Permanent Validity of the Church’s Missionary Mandate) December 7, 1990

John Paul II, Ecclesia in Asia (On the Church in Asia) November 6, 1999 [Apostolic Exhortation]

John Paul II, Christifideles Laici (The Vocation and Mission of the Lay Faithful in the Church and in the World) December 30, 1988 [Apostolic Exhortation]

Great then explain to me why it is not done at Mass in public, by the Priests,Bishops and the Holy Father himself.?