Praying for others

[gavanhe]

What position should one take in praying for others whom one knows are in serious moral disorder or have parted this world with a seriously moral disorder. We all know people who have left this world with no thought of God within them, as an extreme praying for someone like Hitler comes to mind, not saying we should or shouldn’t.
It seems absurd that we should pray for such people yet it is not for us to judge any ones state of mind at the point of death.
Any thoughts?
Gerry

 

[Miserissima]

What position should one take in praying for others whom one knows are in serious moral disorder or have parted this world with a seriously moral disorder. We all know people who have left this world with no thought of God within them, as an extreme praying for someone like Hitler comes to mind, not saying we should or shouldn’t.
It seems absurd that we should pray for such people yet it is not for us to judge any ones state of mind at the point of death.
Any thoughts?
Gerry

Are you talking about praying for those who may die or may have died in the state of mortal sin? Well, we pray for all souls to reach heaven – those living or those who are in Purgatory.

Remember 2 Maccabees 39-46, where Judas found pagan amulets on the bodies of some of his soldiers. He prayed on their behalf for the Lord to forgive them:

"39 On the following day, since the task had now become urgent, Judas and his men went to gather up the bodies of the slain and bury them with their kinsmen in their ancestral tombs.

40 But under the tunic of each of the dead they found amulets sacred to the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. So it was clear to all that this was why these men had been slain.

41 They all therefore praised the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings to light the things that are hidden.

42 Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.

43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view;

44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.

45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought.

46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin. "

Br. Rich FSO has an excellent answer from this thread, which is similar in nature. He said,

I[t] is an example of praying and offering a sacrifice for those who have died, for God’s Mercy. No individual ever knows the fate of another individual. There was simply hope.

That is what we do: pray and offer sacrifice for those who have died, regardless of the state of one’s soul at death (which only God knows). We trust in God’s mercy in that if a person has not died in mortal sin, God will apply those graces where He sees fit (perhaps other poor souls in Purgatory or for someone living – we can only trust in God’s mercy and grace).

We can’t know the disposition of one’s soul at the time of death or after, but no prayers for the dead are ever wasted.

 

[teachccd]

Until the Church proclaims that someone is definitely in hell (which She has never done) then we are to assume that they can be saved and in need of our prayers. To give up on someone is to pass judgment and that would be moving into the role of what only God can do. So as much as we find the transgressions of others is as much as we will never know the depths of their souls… teachccd

 

[baltobetsy]

Good answers on praying for the dead, so I’ll tackle praying for the living without judging.

This idea works for praying for those one is worried about because of a sinful lifestyle, and also for those one might consider an enemy. It also works for our dearest friends and relatives. Pray for whatever the person needs in order that the will of God be perfectly fulfilled in him/her. I need that, you need that, the Pope needs that, our wayward friends and relatives need that, those who do us harm need that, the people we admire need that - everyone needs that!

I have had a couple of people in my life who upset me so much I can barely think about them, so my prayers for them are short and to the point: “Whatever she needs, Lord!” He knows what I mean and what the person needs. I don’t have to get all flowery and sweet, nor do I have to enumerate their faults for the Lord. “Whatever he needs!”

Betsy

 

[gavanhe]

Thank you all for your lovely answers. I had assumed as much but sometimes it seems contrary to pray for those whom we deemed died in serious moral disorder. As you all suggest we are in no position to pronounce judgment.
I should imagine that most of us already do pray for those people as I assume we all pray for those who have nobody to pray for them.
Gerry